So the tournament is already too Goku-centered, why bring the older cast back?

[Chuquita]

After all the build-up, Krillin's fighting for ONE episode, maybe even less, since we're gonna see Vegeta vs Universe 6.
Congrats Toei.

It makes me think Toei wanted to build Krillin up more than Toriyama did.

[precita]

After all the build-up, Krillin's fighting for ONE episode, maybe even less, since we're gonna see Vegeta vs Universe 6.
Congrats Toei.

Well it's not like this is the final Krillin fight for the entire series. He'll probably continue to fight after the end of the tournament.

[Snakeway Skywalker]

"Why bring the older cast back?" um, because they needed 10 warriors to fill up the team. Haven't you been paying attention?

Of course the tournament is Goku-centered, he's the main character after all, and I'm sure we'll see plenty of the other team members have their moments to shine (Krillin, quite literally).

[Torturephile]

Come on this is only a cartoon not a real life person. Besides, he is a ridiculous bald midget and it is funny as hell to call him bald midget. Do you prefer noseless midget or noseless bald midget? I think bald midget is fine.

We could call Hit "The Penishead", or "The Dickhead".

He doesn't have a Penishead, but, yes, you could call him the way you want, but, the bald midget head looks like a big bald bison ball, but, we could call him conehead or nuthead. What do you think? Do you like it?
In the end, you can't deny Hitto would crush him like a bug isn't it?

I recall seeing a whole thread dedicated to how his head looks like a purple penis, so he kind of has one. As for Krillin, I thought of nutsack, but I found this:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Lionel]

Actually, we have seen on at least occasion the roles being reversed with Goku acting as the proverbial damsel in distress who is awaiting for some gallant knight to rescue him. In this exact situation, though, it's Goku being relieved of his torture session courtesy of Oozaru Vegeta by Gohan and Krillin. No one can say that the the Saiyan arc Vegeta fight wasn't a team effort because everyone contributed in a meaningfully tangible way which made a difference all throughout. What separates that occasion from, say, Vegeta momentarily distracting Cell for Gohan is that the main fighting force of the time, Goku, was pretty much down for the count. The second half of that fight was committed to everyone still alive besides Goku doing everything they can to stay alive while improvising ways to chip away at Vegeta's seemingly unstoppable might. It's true that Goku helped steer this segment fight along with incidents like bequeathing Krillin with the Spirit Bomb and directing Oozaru Gohan's attention towards Vegeta, but all of that was strictly tactical in nature.

You don't see such levels of proactivtiy from the subsidiary characters in overwhelming an antagonist except for Zamasu who was brought to his knees and executed by Future Trunks.

I'll start my reply with repeating myself. "Plagued this series since the Frieza arc."

The saiyan arc, as I had already pointed out, was the last time the trope was used effectively. This was primarily because Goku had a personal connection to the saiyan and like every other arc was doing something while in Otherworld. Infact this is a case of the anime filler really helping. Likewise as you point out, the Goku is our Savior is subverted because Goku cannot beat Vegeta alone.

But then we skip to the Frieza arc. Goku is not the main character of the Frieza arc, its Krillin, Gohan and Vegeta. So Goku swooping in to save the day completely undercuts their journey as characters, save Vegeta's. The Ginyu Force and his fight with them serve as nothing but padding to make sure Goku has something to do on Namek. Once they are dealt with Goku is once again taken out of the plot just so he can swoop in and save the day AGAIN. In both cases Goku has no connection to whats going on in the story and it really hurts the narrative. Its like Superman turning up out of the blue in a Batman story and curbstomping the bad guy. While his fight with Ginyu is just padding, what happens with Frieza is just sad for most of the other characters. Gohan and Krillin give it there all and do nothing. Piccolo comes back from the dead, puts the whole plan at risk and even gets a new power up......all for it to be worthless. From the opening fight with Frieza to the point he takes his final form, everything that happens is just an utter waste of time because in reality they have zero chance of actually winning and are only alive because Frieza is screwing around. But the single worst part is what that means for the beginning of Goku and Frieza's relationship. Goku dose not know Frieza, he dose not care that he blew up Vegeta and killed his farther, Goku just thinks Frieza as a strong, bad person who he's heard a lot about. Likewise Frieza dose not know or care who Goku is, Goku is some random jackass in orange and blue who wants to fight him. Never in all my life have I ever seen such a bland beginning to an ultimate rivalry. The main hero and villain have almost no idea who the fuck the other is, they have had no interactions of any kind up to this point to begin building any kind of relationship and they are almost completely apathetic to each-other, especially on Frieza's part. In every arc before this, save the first, Goku and his foe always had some connection, not here. Yet despite all that, Goku is the one to battle Frieza in the end, sole by virtue of being the main character. From a narrative stand point it takes away almost all the stories build up and throws it away. All the other characters hard work has no pay off and they get relegated to the side lines. Vegeta only gets a pay of because he gets killed. The only saving grace for this is how Goku and Frieza's relationship would develop beyond this point.

The Android arc is just as bad. Goku is put in a coma thanks to the heart virus and he's out of the arc proper until the Cell games. During that time the he dose one helpful thing, the rest he just stands and watchs or is training in an isolated location AGAIN. Now everything, and I do mean everything, after Goku gets sick is made pointless by Goku and Gohan at the end of the arc. The only single thing that helps is moving Goku to kami house. Apart from that, the caste could have literally sat on their assess all that time and nothing would change. Goku could just wake up, go into the chamber with Gohan and the story would play out the same. All the hard work Piccolo, Tien, Trunks and Vegeta put in is rendered utterly pointless. And once again Goku has barely any connection to the main threat. Cell just wants to kill him because thats what he was made to do and he wants to fight the strongest. Goku is in almost exactly the same position he was on Namek, Goku speaks to Cell once before he become's perfect and saves his friend from getting hurt, creating a bare minimum connection between the two beforehand. But then we have Gohan come in and do the exact same thing to Goku! While the ending manages to give them both some payoff, apart from throwing a very small bone to Vegeta, the the rest of the caste are left out in the cold again. The anime did fix this however.

The Buu Saga what can I say that has not already been said. The second Super Buu absorbs Gohan, Goku steps in and pulls the rug right out from under his sons and Piccolo AGAIN. The one saving grace is Vegeta's involvement and development.

Those are 3 of Z's 4 arcs and in each of them having Goku taken out of the story only served to make everyone elses hard work look pointless. Say what you will about GT but at least by focusing just on Goku he feels like a part of his own story and he never steals anyone elses thunder. In Super the only time they really dropped the ball hard was Piccolo and Buu in the U6 tournament, they were utterly wasted there and Vegeta's death at the hands of Frieza in RoF. In every other arc the characters they included did something relevant that was not undercut by Goku.

The Saiyan arc was moreso the outlier instead of a criterion for the norm. All throughout the original Dragon Ball series can you recall any time where a proactive contribution was made by the side characters in the fight against the main antagonist? Doubtful. Occasions do arise such as Tenshinhan rescuing Goku from almost certain death at the hands of Piccolo Daimao by relying upon his Bukujutsu to escape the blast radius of his attack. Such acts aren't commonalities in DB, though. Dragon Ball was very much the tale of Goku. His fellow fighters revolved around him. Since the Pilaf arc they each held negligible roles for the longest time. Certain junctures allowed for them to stage a brief appearance like Krillin in the General Blue arc, but what can be positively said of his role? He was made to flee at the closest sign of any impending danger. Goku was the one to effectively fight enemies such as the Pirate Robot and General Blue himself. Krillin's time was spent mostly loping alongside Bulma. When he did attempt to seize the reigns of the fighting initiative, he was either dismissed by Goku for his weakness or made to follow after Bulma. This trend persists throughout the remainder of the arc where neither Krillin, Yamcha, or any other associate of Goku's is allowed to engage the RRA directly because he had already defeated them all. All of that preparation and resolution to finally help their friend only for it to end up being all for naught -- how is that not an insult against their professions as fighters?

The tournaments are the only occasions where the alternative fighters were given any promise of shining. Beyond them, the consequences of their participation was negligible barring a few rare moments such as Yamcha defeating the Invisible Man (with outside assistance, mind you), Yajirobe killing Cymbal, or the aforementioned rescuing by Tenshinhan. On that note, how many of the primary arc antagonists can you say shared a personal connection to Goku? Did they interact with him non-violently? Were they at odds on some philosophical level and the fights became a contest of ideals as well as fists? Were their actions influential in the shaping of his background? None of these qualities were actually shared by the likes of Tao, Commander Red, or even Piccolo Daimao who's only direct link to Goku was the murder of his sensei and best friend. Through Vegeta, Goku garnered the conviction to pledge the efforts of his fight with Freeza in the name of all the Saiyan and Namekian victims. Freeza also happened to connect his character with Goku when he realised that it was Goku's father who staged the rebellion against him and whom he killed to quell it. The latter factoid is a thread of personalised association which Goku understandably has need to reflect or dwell on because he never knew his biological father. However, to say that utterly no link was made past Goku and Freeza sizing the other's power up seems inaccurate.

How much meaningful contribution can the cast make beyond fighting? This a manga that became dedicated to fighting sometime in the middle of the original Dragon Ball. Worth is measured by your power and the impact of said power against enemies. Bulma's scientific genius and resources are the only exception. None of the Z-fighters can boast for having such varied credentials -- not even Piccolo with his world renowned "smarts". One thing that will concede for Dragon Ball Z having done better than the original is open up the proactivity of the other cast members when they were otherwise just briefly popping up only to recede back into obscurity in DB. Much of the subsequent failure to make a difference like in the Namek arc stems from authorial induced stupidity to ensure Goku has a role to play. Really, how else can you explain Krillin yelling at Vegeta who is quite a distance away to attack Freeza instead of doing so himself with a Kienzan when the tyrant is literally floating right in front of him with his vision briefly damaged by the Taiyoken? A sitting duck and Krillin is so amateurish in that scene he doesn't even realise it. That scene is about as nonsensical as Tenshinhan failing to notice his Mafuba container for Piccolo Daimao is damaged before flying out to the capital.

You can chastise Piccolo's limited role in the Namek arc, but everything about it was focused on his origins from the people who were victimised to the geography used at the benefit of the outclassed Z-fighters to Piccolo's desire for finally setting foot on his homeland. From a narrative perspective, Piccolo had all the reason in the world to join in on the fight. Does it mean his participation made a different? Well I like to think so. Besides fighting Freeza, he did contribute energy to the Spirit Bomb and rescue Goku from almost certain death, which is arguably more than what Tenshinhan accomplished in the Daimao arc.

I think the necessity of the cyborgs for Cell's assimilation is what ultimately cost the Z-fighters the option of being able able to take them out successfully. Everything they did was just a means for stalling the inevitable end result with the only expendable pawn being #19, who ironically Goku succumbed to and was at the mercy of. How much contribution do you think can be shared when there's only six enemies and five of whom are needed for some future role? Toriyama had pretty much abandoned the notion of teamwork at this point so the characters were made to take turns fighting the cyborgs and Cell. At least he took the time time to interweave Gero's ambitions with the Red Ribbon Army, an enemy whom Goku had formed a history with by defeating them. Cell shared a more personal connection than some antagonists did. Does it mean more couldn't have been done to flesh out this link? No. But it's not as though Goku and and Cell were totally devoid of any link.

[Shinda Forever]

We could call Hit "The Penishead", or "The Dickhead".

He doesn't have a Penishead, but, yes, you could call him the way you want, but, the bald midget head looks like a big bald bison ball, but, we could call him conehead or nuthead. What do you think? Do you like it?
In the end, you can't deny Hitto would crush him like a bug isn't it?

I recall seeing a whole thread dedicated to how his head looks like a purple penis, so he kind of has one. As for Krillin, I thought of nutsack, but I found this:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Do you think his head looks like a purple penis? The design would need to be slightly different.

After all the build-up, Krillin's fighting for ONE episode, maybe even less, since we're gonna see Vegeta vs Universe 6.
Congrats Toei.

If Krillin fights only one episode, the others will get even less screentime.

[SsjCookie]

I'm not a Goku fan but he IS the main character, and as the main character of the show he is bound to get the centre stage over and over again, the only character who has ever managed to surpass him in that regard was in fact his son Gohan.
I can see Gohan once again becoming the star of the tournament saga, great for the Gohan fans around.
They will save him for last, that's for sure.
Vegeta will have some moments in the tournament only to be surpassed again by Goku and Gohan (or the other Saiyans or the teletubbie lady for gods sake )
Krillin will be the underdog and will have some awesome fights, but will get beaten eventually.
17 will be the surprise of the tournament.
18 will put up a good fight
Freeza is the big unknown

And the others?....well, they helped.

Just because he is the main character doesn't mean he needs to be in every episode and the show is called Dragon Ball not Goku series.

I don't know in what world you are living, but, the bald midget is getting destroyed very soon and there is no way in hell, ultimate Gohan can beat Hitto.

Believe me, I could easily watch a whole saga without Goku and not miss him for one second.
I'm actually hoping he gets eliminated in the tournament somehow and take him down a peg so that other characters can have a chance to shine.
But we all know that's not going to happen unfortunately, chances are Gohan unlocks his full potential and takes Gokus place, or Vegeta gets the main course for a change.
Either way, it's always one of the Saiyans standing central in a plot.

Krillin is a very popular character no matter what you think of him, so he'll get some good moments before he drops out of the tournament. (yes I do think he will drop out, just not so soon.)
And Gohan vs HIt?....that could be an interesting fight, but lets not forget Gohan has a family to fight for and there is this whole "unlocked potential" people keep telling about, so don't count him out even though he's sloppy.

[Jigurashi]

I'm not a Goku fan but he IS the main character, and as the main character of the show he is bound to get the centre stage over and over again, the only character who has ever managed to surpass him in that regard was in fact his son Gohan.
I can see Gohan once again becoming the star of the tournament saga, great for the Gohan fans around.
They will save him for last, that's for sure.
Vegeta will have some moments in the tournament only to be surpassed again by Goku and Gohan (or the other Saiyans or the teletubbie lady for gods sake )
Krillin will be the underdog and will have some awesome fights, but will get beaten eventually.
17 will be the surprise of the tournament.
18 will put up a good fight
Freeza is the big unknown

And the others?....well, they helped.

Just because he is the main character doesn't mean he needs to be in every episode and the show is called Dragon Ball not Goku series.

I don't know in what world you are living, but, the bald midget is getting destroyed very soon and there is no way in hell, ultimate Gohan can beat Hitto.

Believe me, I could easily watch a whole saga without Goku and not miss him for one second.
I'm actually hoping he gets eliminated in the tournament somehow and take him down a peg so that other characters can have a chance to shine.
But we all know that's not going to happen unfortunately, chances are Gohan unlocks his full potential and takes Gokus place, or Vegeta gets the main course for a change.
Either way, it's always one of the Saiyans standing central in a plot.

Krillin is a very popular character no matter what you think of him, so he'll get some good moments before he drops out of the tournament. (yes I do think he will drop out, just not so soon.)
And Gohan vs HIt?....that could be an interesting fight, but lets not forget Gohan has a family to fight for and there is this whole "unlocked potential" people keep telling about, so don't count him out even though he's sloppy.

Always curious what people mean by "shine" since Goku being at the forefront doesn't necessarily prevent others from "shining".

[TBMx]

I'm utterly sick of Goku. Sick to death. Because of kaioken, by himself Goku is stronger than the rest of the u7 team combined.The rest of the team is just a goku delivery system to get him to the last stages.No one else really matters. Therefore no tension.

[SsjCookie]

Just because he is the main character doesn't mean he needs to be in every episode and the show is called Dragon Ball not Goku series.

I don't know in what world you are living, but, the bald midget is getting destroyed very soon and there is no way in hell, ultimate Gohan can beat Hitto.

Believe me, I could easily watch a whole saga without Goku and not miss him for one second.
I'm actually hoping he gets eliminated in the tournament somehow and take him down a peg so that other characters can have a chance to shine.
But we all know that's not going to happen unfortunately, chances are Gohan unlocks his full potential and takes Gokus place, or Vegeta gets the main course for a change.
Either way, it's always one of the Saiyans standing central in a plot.

Krillin is a very popular character no matter what you think of him, so he'll get some good moments before he drops out of the tournament. (yes I do think he will drop out, just not so soon.)
And Gohan vs HIt?....that could be an interesting fight, but lets not forget Gohan has a family to fight for and there is this whole "unlocked potential" people keep telling about, so don't count him out even though he's sloppy.

Always curious what people mean by "shine" since Goku being at the forefront doesn't necessarily prevent others from "shining".

Goku has the tendency of always getting the lion share when it comes to a crucial battle, making all the others look like obsolete spectators.

Thankfully this tournament will be a team effort and I hope it will not end in the way I fear it will end.
(Goku being the last one left of his team and the other teams, therefore winning the tournament and using the dragonballs to wish all the other universes back. That would really suck! )

[Jigurashi]

Believe me, I could easily watch a whole saga without Goku and not miss him for one second.
I'm actually hoping he gets eliminated in the tournament somehow and take him down a peg so that other characters can have a chance to shine.
But we all know that's not going to happen unfortunately, chances are Gohan unlocks his full potential and takes Gokus place, or Vegeta gets the main course for a change.
Either way, it's always one of the Saiyans standing central in a plot.

Krillin is a very popular character no matter what you think of him, so he'll get some good moments before he drops out of the tournament. (yes I do think he will drop out, just not so soon.)
And Gohan vs HIt?....that could be an interesting fight, but lets not forget Gohan has a family to fight for and there is this whole "unlocked potential" people keep telling about, so don't count him out even though he's sloppy.

Always curious what people mean by "shine" since Goku being at the forefront doesn't necessarily prevent others from "shining".

Goku has the tendency of always getting the lion share when it comes to a crucial battle, making all the others look like obsolete spectators.

Thankfully this tournament will be a team effort and I hope it will not end in the way I fear it will end.
(Goku being the last one left of his team and the other teams, therefore winning the tournament and using the dragonballs to wish all the other universes back. That would really suck! )

So I'm still confused. Is your issue with other characters not "shining" or the fact that Goku tends to consistently outperform everybody else?

[SsjCookie]

Always curious what people mean by "shine" since Goku being at the forefront doesn't necessarily prevent others from "shining".

Goku has the tendency of always getting the lion share when it comes to a crucial battle, making all the others look like obsolete spectators.

Thankfully this tournament will be a team effort and I hope it will not end in the way I fear it will end.
(Goku being the last one left of his team and the other teams, therefore winning the tournament and using the dragonballs to wish all the other universes back. That would really suck! )

So I'm still confused. Is your issue with other characters not "shining" or the fact that Goku tends to consistently outperform everybody else?

Both!

[Torturephile]

He doesn't have a Penishead, but, yes, you could call him the way you want, but, the bald midget head looks like a big bald bison ball, but, we could call him conehead or nuthead. What do you think? Do you like it?
In the end, you can't deny Hitto would crush him like a bug isn't it?

I recall seeing a whole thread dedicated to how his head looks like a purple penis, so he kind of has one. As for Krillin, I thought of nutsack, but I found this:
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

Do you think his head looks like a purple penis? The design would need to be slightly different.

Perhaps a little, but it wasn't until random people in the internet pointed that out that I saw it. Regardless, I have failed my mission to make you mad. I made fun of your character but it seems you're not as personally attached to him as I expected, not like the Krillin fans you angered. Props.

[Lord Beerus]

After all the build-up, Krillin's fighting for ONE episode, maybe even less, since we're gonna see Vegeta vs Universe 6.
Congrats Toei.

It makes me think Toei wanted to build Krillin up more than Toriyama did.

It's the same deal with Gohan. Say what you will but the anime has been more than willing to throw him a bone.

[Kanassa]

After all the build-up, Krillin's fighting for ONE episode, maybe even less, since we're gonna see Vegeta vs Universe 6.
Congrats Toei.

It makes me think Toei wanted to build Krillin up more than Toriyama did.

It's the same deal with Gohan. Say what you will but the anime has been more than willing to throw him a bone.

Which is why I'm confident that Gohan is fuuuuuucked

[Ki Breaker]

It makes me think Toei wanted to build Krillin up more than Toriyama did.

It's the same deal with Gohan. Say what you will but the anime has been more than willing to throw him a bone.

Which is why I'm confident that Gohan is fuuuuuucked

Well.. shieet..

[BlueBasilisk]

It's the same deal with Gohan. Say what you will but the anime has been more than willing to throw him a bone.

Toei tries to throw the side characters a bone whenever they can, it seems. The Ginyu Force fight on King Kai's planet, Yamcha in Otherworld during the Buu saga, Gohan vs Goku and the Watagash stuff, Rage Trunks, making Videl Great Saiyaman 2 and having her fight alongside Gohan...

I can't really fault them for the effort!

[Chuquita]

At the very least it keeps the audience guessing. "Is this character getting the spotlight a part of Toriyama's outline? Or is it because Toei likes this character and is trying to make them look good even when the script doesn't involve them much?".

Krillin I can definitely see because he's voiced by Luffy, Mayumi Tanaka. He sounds like Luffy; the kids like Luffy, Toei thinks to itself.
Gohan I think has fans on the staff who want to see him promoted, so they got out of their way to do so. I mean I could be wrong and he could win the tournament, but Gokû's the one getting the new form, not him; at least the advertisement made it look that way.

[perucho1990]

At the very least it keeps the audience guessing. "Is this character getting the spotlight a part of Toriyama's outline? Or is it because Toei likes this character and is trying to make them look good even when the script doesn't involve them much?".

Krillin I can definitely see because he's voiced by Luffy, Mayumi Tanaka. He sounds like Luffy; the kids like Luffy, Toei thinks to itself.
Gohan I think has fans on the staff who want to see him promoted, so they got out of their way to do so. I mean I could be wrong and he could win the tournament, but Gokû's the one getting the new form, not him; at least the advertisement made it look that way.

They gave Gohan one of the best fights in DBS(Yamamuro animated the last bit of Gohan going for Kaioken Goku iirc ), so the staff likes him.

Gohan will have a powerup tbh, look at the Trunks arc for example, with Trunks fighting Merged Zamasu in the Climax instead of Goku, the casuals loved it despite not being part of Toriyamas outline. Its clear Toriyama wants to be Goku and Vegeta centric, which is one of the main reason Toyotaro needs to take over.

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

Oh *eye roll*... next episode there is going to be a thread about Super being too Krillin-centered. And then Vegeta-centered...