SSBlue -- people seem confused by it.

[Fizzer]

My interpretation, which is probably kind of head canon to make things work, is something like:

-Even mortals have both mortal ki and god ki within them, but even those who have trained their mortal ki have never used their god ki which remains nothing but a spark deep inside them.

-SSB is the result of training god ki and combining it with SSJ to achieve godly power without being a god.

-SSG is a temporary state of a Saiyan actually BEING a god. While an SSG, Goku was using his god ki so trained it for the first time ever without even realising, hence he got continuously stronger throughout his fight with Beerus and had a much stronger god ki even after the form had worn off.

-To make sense of RoF, I had head-canon that Freeza had trained his god ki, whether he was aware of it or not. Maybe Freeza('s race) has always been in touch with his god ki, explaining why he was so much more powerful than most other beings in the first place. That's probably true of Buu as well, being a god-like being.



Edit:
What even constitutes/who has god ki to be honest? I assume Kaio, Kami, Dende, the Grand Elder, Shenlong, must all have god ki, and can't be sensed by humans? In which case the "gods >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> non-gods" idea from BoG is the thing that really needs to be discarded here, not the thing that needs to be worked around.

[Shinda Forever]

It's always blue with the aura; without it can veer into the teal range.

I would say that without the aura, it is green.

Dude, it's tbe bluest shade of blue possible, no idea where you pulled the green from. Is everything ok with your color vision?

You must be blind that shit is green, i checked on photoshop.

[Simere]

It's always blue with the aura; without it can veer into the teal range.

I would say that without the aura, it is green.

Dude, it's tbe bluest shade of blue possible, no idea where you pulled the green from. Is everything ok with your color vision?

I think something might be wrong with both your perceptions of color. Without the aura it's never green, and never the bluest of blue. It's blue-green. Shades of cyan. It sometimes gets to just light blue at best.

[Saturnine]

I would say that without the aura, it is green.

Dude, it's tbe bluest shade of blue possible, no idea where you pulled the green from. Is everything ok with your color vision?

You must be blind that shit is green, i checked on photoshop.

I remember reading something like that from you yesterday, was about to ask you if you were Japanese or something, since they have one word for blue and green, lol.

This is blue
[spoiler][/spoiler]

This is green
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[Saturnine]

I think something might be wrong with both your perceptions of color. Without the aura it's never green, and never the bluest of blue. It's blue-green. Shades of cyan. It sometimes gets to just light blue at best.

Yeah well, sometimes it does get a very, very slight tinge of green in it, but usually it's just cyan - which comes in greener and bluer shades, but having a green shade in it is not a requirement. I think the SSj Blue hair is meant to be "aqua".



Just look at the upper center and upper right ones. Not much green at all. I think the portrayal is inconsistent and they use varying hues of cyan depending on who's directing the episode, so there might be some very slight hints of green in it sometimes, but it's still predominantly blue either way.

[Marlowe89]

This might be of interest to some, but Funimation's dub of Episode 24 aired recently and Goku's line where he explains what Blue is to Frieza has been altered slightly from the RoF movie to be a lot closer to the original Japanese line:

"I know you don't have the patience for the full story Frieza, but I got a taste of something called Super Saiyan God and then tapped into that power on my own, and it's the Super Saiyan level of that."

Here's the scene in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEEoYVMybtI

Again, nothing major but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway for those interested.

[dbgtFO]

This might be of interest to some, but Funimation's dub of Episode 24 aired recently and Goku's line where he explains what Blue is to Frieza has been altered slightly from the RoF movie to be a lot closer to the original Japanese line:

"I know you don't have the patience for the full story Frieza, but I got a taste of something called Super Saiyan God and then tapped into that power on my own, and it's the Super Saiyan level of that."

Here's the scene in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEEoYVMybtI

Again, nothing major but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway for those interested.

Glad to hear they made the line much closer to the original text and just hearing Freeza trying to repeat made the scene that much funnier. It really gets the point across, when it's a language you can understand.

[Shinda Forever]

I think something might be wrong with both your perceptions of color. Without the aura it's never green, and never the bluest of blue. It's blue-green. Shades of cyan. It sometimes gets to just light blue at best.

Yeah well, sometimes it does get a very, very slight tinge of green in it, but usually it's just cyan - which comes in greener and bluer shades, but having a green shade in it is not a requirement. I think the SSj Blue hair is meant to be "aqua".



Just look at the upper center and upper right ones. Not much green at all. I think the portrayal is inconsistent and they use varying hues of cyan depending on who's directing the episode, so there might be some very slight hints of green in it sometimes, but it's still predominantly blue either way.

Yeah that's it, i agree with you.

[ChiefWamsutta]

This might be of interest to some, but Funimation's dub of Episode 24 aired recently and Goku's line where he explains what Blue is to Frieza has been altered slightly from the RoF movie to be a lot closer to the original Japanese line:

"I know you don't have the patience for the full story Frieza, but I got a taste of something called Super Saiyan God and then tapped into that power on my own, and it's the Super Saiyan level of that."

Here's the scene in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEEoYVMybtI

Again, nothing major but I thought I'd throw it out there anyway for those interested.

Glad to hear they made the line much closer to the original text and just hearing Freeza trying to repeat made the scene that much funnier. It really gets the point across, when it's a language you can understand.

Yeah, Frieza said something different, haha. This seems to believe the same idea of a black-haired SSGod version. I wonder how they will comment on Goku using SS1 again during the U6 Tournament.

[BlueBasilisk]

I forgot about this exchange while Goku and Vegeta were training in the staff in Episode 23. It seems like it pretty well explains how the whole god ki thing works:

Vegeta: I get it...If you increase your energy and control it, you can move.
Goku: So that's it! Nice going, Vegeta! We can move at last. *Looks at hand* But this is harsh.
Vegeta: So this is a god's energy? What incredible pressure.

And the dub version just for comparison's sake:
[spoiler]Vegeta: So that's the trick. If I raise my energy but control it so it doesn't leak out, I can move.
Goku: Nice, Vegeta! Should have known you'd figure it out. Yeah, it's working for me too! That's way better. Pretty demanding to keep it all inside though.
Vegeta: So is this the secret to divine energy? The pressure inside is so intense.[/spoiler]

That pretty much says that God Ki is controlling and increasing your energy. It lines up with what Whis was telling them in episode 20 or 21, whichever the blue flash was in. It's shown in the BoG arc that Goku can still go Super Saiyan and Whis says that they could during their training but chose not to because they wouldn't benefit as much. In the movie he doesn't have aura when he transforms into Blue, and in episode 24 he closes his eyes before powering up, like he did the two previous times he was trying to control his ki.

Based on this, it seems like if Goku and Vegeta aren't trying to control their ki, they simply turn Super Saiyan like they normally do. If they do and then transform, they're tapping into godly ki and turn into Blue instead. Seems pretty simple put that way, honestly. I think it fits with Goku's original description of Blue as well. He can tap into godly energy whenever he wants by controlling/increasing his ki, and by doing so he can become Super Saiyan Blue, the SS version of Super Saiyan God.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

I forgot about this exchange while Goku and Vegeta were training in the staff in Episode 23. It seems like it pretty well explains how the whole god ki thing works:

Vegeta: I get it...If you increase your energy and control it, you can move.
Goku: So that's it! Nice going, Vegeta! We can move at last. *Looks at hand* But this is harsh.
Vegeta: So this is a god's energy? What incredible pressure.

And the dub version just for comparison's sake:
[spoiler]Vegeta: So that's the trick. If I raise my energy but control it so it doesn't leak out, I can move.
Goku: Nice, Vegeta! Should have known you'd figure it out. Yeah, it's working for me too! That's way better. Pretty demanding to keep it all inside though.
Vegeta: So is this the secret to divine energy? The pressure inside is so intense.[/spoiler]

That pretty much says that God Ki is controlling and increasing your energy. It lines up with what Whis was telling them in episode 20 or 21, whichever the blue flash was in. It's shown in the BoG arc that Goku can still go Super Saiyan and Whis says that they could during their training but chose not to because they wouldn't benefit as much. In the movie he doesn't have aura when he transforms into Blue, and in episode 24 he closes his eyes before powering up, like he did the two previous times he was trying to control his ki.

Based on this, it seems like if Goku and Vegeta aren't trying to control their ki, they simply turn Super Saiyan like they normally do. If they do and then transform, they're tapping into godly ki and turn into Blue instead. Seems pretty simple put that way, honestly. I think it fits with Goku's original description of Blue as well. He can tap into godly energy whenever he wants by controlling/increasing his ki, and by doing so he can become Super Saiyan Blue, the SS version of Super Saiyan God.

THAT'S WHAT I'VE BEEN SAYING THIS WHOLE TIME! THANK YOU!

Ever since the original SS forms came back, I made attempts to figure out the difference. The dub for the original movie put it best, that Goku could tap into that power all by himself. The way to tap into it is by learning to control that energy via not letting it leak out. Basically, Goku and Vegeta always have god power as their own, but to truly utilize it, they need to control their energies to channel it properly.

[GodVegetto91]

Guys! Super Saiyan Blue has already been explained in scrupulous detail! There are no more mysteries, it all makes 100% perfect sense now after this explanation! The problem is, people (as always) refuse to accept new theories and explanations. It's not that the series don't make sense, but rather, people's personal biases.
https://youtu.be/2cy97NK8szc

And this one too.

https://youtu.be/rD4FV3XBk7I

http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t224 ... #m39821418

Short version: It's 100% perfect ki control. Goku and Vegeta power up their ki internally rather than externally! When they go SSJ Blue, what they are actually doing, is powering up to Super Saiyan, internally! they're ki is being kept inside of their bodies 100% and thus being prevented from leaking into the area for others to pick up on and sense. It's perfect ki control.

What is God Ki? — it's normal ki CONTROLLED to a DIVINE level! There is no such thing as "god ki" as being a seperate ki altogether from normal ki, No! It's just "regular" ki being controlled to the utmost limit and thereby preventing it from leaking outside of their bodies for others to sense.

It has ZERO ki leakage!

God ki = normal ki being controlled perfectly! This is what the series has been hinting at as far back as the begining of the RoF arc! But people have been ignoring and denying it for all this time. (As usual) the writing is on the wall, it is perfectly clear to me.

Whis even told Vegeta to learn to control "his ki" if he is to defeat Beerus and Goku, (not get a magic dose of special "god ki" (whatever that is) and later we learn that Whis told Goku and Vegeta to "keep their ki hidden inside their bodies" thus preventing it from leaking into the area for others to sense, this is later confirmed again in "That Place" where Goku and Vegeta couldn't even move with their Aura's on, thus had to keep their ki inside of their bodies so they could freely move.

The evidence is all there in the series. You just have to look for it.

[GodVegetto91]

Sorry for double posting, but i had to add THIS video to it (since apparently i can't edit my posts on this site) so here it goes.

This video is a MUST watch to learn exactly the difference between "normal" ki and "God" ki.

https://youtu.be/J1kDUzACnMI

[nato25]

SSB is confusing because they present it in a confusing way. First it was "Super saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God." Ok so when Goku, who has absorbed god energy, goes Super Saiyan his hair turns Blue. Cool, I got it.

But then they still use the Gold versions.

Then it's no Ki leakage and perfect control. But they still use the auras which represent the Ki leakage. I still buy it, and the aura looks cool, but it doesn't help matters.

Then in the manga we actually have no Ki leakage in the mastered SSB thing that Goku does. But that's still odd because No ki leakage is supposed to be what Blue was in the first place.

And then Vegeta gets this confusing form by training for it.

So weird. It doesn't really bother me but the form is just weird. Dig the Blue hair .

This is spot on, exactly how I'm thinking. Way too many contradictions and things that don't make sense. I'm also very confused on what ssb current dealis with stamina drain. Is it actually turning into the form that drains heaps of stamina (I think this was the case for vegeta especially in. Uni 6 tournament)? Is it maintaining the form as whis just commented?

I just want some non contradictory information damnit. Why do you make it. So hard to love this series toeing! A die hard fan shouldn't be so confused.

[ChiefWamsutta]

This is spot on, exactly how I'm thinking. Way too many contradictions and things that don't make sense. I'm also very confused on what ssb current dealis with stamina drain. Is it actually turning into the form that drains heaps of stamina (I think this was the case for vegeta especially in. Uni 6 tournament)? Is it maintaining the form as whis just commented?

I just want some non contradictory information damnit. Why do you make it. So hard to love this series toeing! A die hard fan shouldn't be so confused.

I absolutely agree with what you just said ... sigh.

Guys! Super Saiyan Blue has already been explained in scrupulous detail! There are no more mysteries, it all makes 100% perfect sense now after this explanation! The problem is, people (as always) refuse to accept new theories and explanations. It's not that the series don't make sense, but rather, people's personal biases.

...

God ki = normal ki being controlled perfectly! This is what the series has been hinting at as far back as the begining of the RoF arc! But people have been ignoring and denying it for all this time. (As usual) the writing is on the wall, it is perfectly clear to me.

...

The evidence is all there in the series. You just have to look for it.

You know, a lot of people in this thread and on this community are willing to accept new beliefs. There is no need for a sweeping generalization.

Normal Ki does convert into God Ki when held inside oneself, yes. However, this does not make it easy to figure out how "Keep your Ki inside yourself," and "This is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan," relate to one another.

[Marlowe89]

Normal Ki does convert into God Ki when held inside oneself, yes. However, this does not make it easy to figure out how "Keep your Ki inside yourself," and "This is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan," relate to one another.

It's just the process of converting one type of energy/power into another. It's not exclusive to Super Saiyan Blue or anything like that because we saw Goku and Vegeta doing it in base the first time we were properly introduced to that exercise in Episode 20 and again in Episode 22.

Blue is still the Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God, exactly as it was described to be. If anything, this lends further credence to that.

[ChiefWamsutta]

Normal Ki does convert into God Ki when held inside oneself, yes. However, this does not make it easy to figure out how "Keep your Ki inside yourself," and "This is a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God as a Super Saiyan," relate to one another.

It's just the process of converting one type of energy/power into another. It's not exclusive to Super Saiyan Blue or anything like that because we saw Goku and Vegeta doing it in base the first time we were properly introduced to that exercise in Episode 20 and again in Episode 22.

Blue is still the Super Saiyan form of a Saiyan with the power of Super Saiyan God, exactly as it was described to be. If anything, this lends further credence to that.

Ohhhhh, so what you are saying would be that by keeping their ki inside themselves in Base it gives them a power boost because of better control, right?

So like SSBlue Goku (With Ki Inside) > SSBlue Goku (Without Ki Inside) > SBG Goku (With Ki Inside) > SBG Goku (Without Ki Inside)?

[Marlowe89]

Ohhhhh, so what you are saying would be that by keeping their ki inside themselves in Base it gives them a power boost because of better control, right?

So like SSBlue Goku (With Ki Inside) > SSBlue Goku (Without Ki Inside) > SBG Goku (With Ki Inside) > SBG Goku (Without Ki Inside)?

I think it might be more along the lines of Goku becoming a "Saiyan Beyond God" in the first place by converting his ki into Godly ki and learning to utilize that power on his own. I'm aware that the characters didn't mention they couldn't sense Goku's energy until after he went Blue in Super, but I don't recall this being mentioned anywhere in the original RoF film so it could have been a simple writing error (especially since Toei wasn't adapting this arc from a Toriyama script directly) -- or maybe their God ki bases were leaking just enough ki that they could still be sensed. Alternatively, it could be just as you suggested, and more or less the anime's equivalent of the manga's "Complete Super Saiyan Blue".

Either way it's hardly an exclusive attribute of Blue specifically, so it doesn't threaten or change its stated definition in the slightest.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

What is God Ki? — it's normal ki CONTROLLED to a DIVINE level! There is no such thing as "god ki" as being a seperate ki altogether from normal ki, No! It's just "regular" ki being controlled to the utmost limit and thereby preventing it from leaking outside of their bodies for others to sense.

...yet the low-ki leakage base form that Goku and Vegeta master in order to attain Super Saiyan Blue has literally no record of being impossible or even hard to sense at all. In fact, the opposite.

[PerhapsTheOtherOne]

What is God Ki? — it's normal ki CONTROLLED to a DIVINE level! There is no such thing as "god ki" as being a seperate ki altogether from normal ki, No! It's just "regular" ki being controlled to the utmost limit and thereby preventing it from leaking outside of their bodies for others to sense.

...yet the low-ki leakage base form that Goku and Vegeta master in order to attain Super Saiyan Blue has literally no record of being impossible or even hard to sense at all. In fact, the opposite.

According to my own personal headcanon, the base form of a Saiyan is unsuited to becoming a god under normal circumstances. Even SSG, the form most resembling a Saiyan's natural state, is still a physical transformation, slimming down a Saiyan and giving him red eyes and hair.

Thus, my reasoning for why we don't see a separate God Ki/Power-bearing base form alluded to or ever implied is that, even though Goku and Vegeta have made SSG's power their own, their base forms aren't able to fully use it, even when preventing their Ki from leaking and controlling it entirely. Thus, they need a specific form to hold and tap into this power more efficiently, ergo the SS form.