Does Super amplify Dragon Ball's problems?

[HybridSaiyan]

I don't care what anyone says, Super Is an entirely different ball game from Z. If Toriyama wanted to continue Dragon Ball, he should have done so with the intention of keeping it violent and bloody.

DBZ was hailed as the most intense fighting "cartoon" of all time.

Super...well. No chance.

[TheMikado]

You got that wrong. Bandai isn't funding the series. They aren't the bank you are saying. Toei, Fuji and Yomiko are. Inform yourself a little about the production committee for a better understanding.

Bandai get credited when they are involved. Take Code Geass: Hangyaku no Lelouch for example. The committee consists of :

制作Production
Bandai Co., Ltd.
Bandai Visual
Code Geass Production Parnters
Hakuhodo DY Media Partners
Mainichi Broadcasting System
Bandai Namco Games
Sunrise

See Bandai's name. When that happens, they have a say on the production matters.

And, in DBS they aren't, as I already showed the credits. We have an idea of who approached who. Toei and Fuji came up with it cause they own the property. They approached Toriyama and he agreed. That's it. Bandai and other sponsors are at the mercy of the people who own the property. That's what I'm trying to say. Hope, it's clear. Sponsors benefit from deals and all, but decision making is still in the hands of the committee.

EDIT: Oh, and both the recent Dragon Ball movies had Bandai on the committee. They got credited. Further confirmation that they aren't in the committee of DBS cause if they were, they would've been credited.

No there is nothing wrong with what I said. I will state for the 1 MILLIONTH time. BANDAI IS NOT ON THE CREATIVE COMMITTEE. You are trying to prove something that no one claimed.

Further YOU ARE WRONG.
Bandai absolutely is credited in the credits as the sponsor. That is their role. It's plastered all over your screen every episode. Why are you insisting they have no involvement with this?






You keep directing me to creative committees which was NEVER my point. My point has always been Bandai SPONSORS and is the MAIN SPONSOR of Dragonball Super. Period. This is NOT debatable. It's literal fact that the show is telling you every week.

I suggest researching anime sponsorship and what their role and expectations are. The are the financiers, their role is to pump money into the show.
As far as who approached who, if I can find the interview and production info on Kai, it was Bandai who approached Toei on producing a new show and acted as sponsor then as well.
Assuming that information is correct once I can locate it, its not a far stretch to think it's possible that Bandai approached Toei again for a new series.

Again, I do not understand what you are claiming? Are you saying Bandai AS THE PRIMARY SPONSOR of the Dragonball Super has no say in the contents of the show it sponsors?
While it is true Toei can do whatever they please, failing to make Toei happy would be a risk to their sponsorship. What about what I am saying is incorrect? Just like an investor cannot directly fire and employee because they do not have the power to, if a major investor of a company wanted the mailroom guy fired, its almost certain to happen.

[sintzu]

As far as who approached who, if I can find the interview and production info on Kai, it was Bandai who approached Toei on producing a new show and acted as sponsor then as well.
Assuming that information is correct...

It is correct, although it did really well with ratings, it failed to move Bandai's merchandise which lead to it being cancelled. If they have the power to decide which show stays and goes then surely they can decide what it contains.

[TheMikado]

As far as who approached who, if I can find the interview and production info on Kai, it was Bandai who approached Toei on producing a new show and acted as sponsor then as well.
Assuming that information is correct...

It is correct, although it did really well with ratings, it failed to move Bandai's merchandise which lead to it being cancelled. If they have the power to decide which show stays and goes then surely they can decide what it contains.

Thanks I just wish I could find it for confirmation. But again Bandai pursued Toei for Kais production and have nothing listed as them having production credits. The idea that they have to somehow be listed as part of the creative production committee to have an impact is naive. Obviously we have no idea how much money Bandai pumps into Super but keeping them happy as the primary sponsor would be among their top priorities, even moreso than quality.

[sintzu]

Obviously we have no idea how much money Bandai pumps into Super but keeping them happy as the primary sponsor would be among their top priorities, even moreso than quality.

They probably spend the most cause it's worded "Super is brought to you by Bandai and these sponcers".

[Lord Beerus]

DBZ was hailed as the most intense fighting "cartoon" of all time.

Since when?

[Boo Machine]

DBZ was hailed as the most intense fighting "cartoon" of all time.

Since when?

Well the back of the Orange Bricks say

"Dragonball Z has been called the GREATEST ACTION CARTOON OF ALL TIME, and it's TRUE!" - Anime Insider.

So I guess thats something.

I think I also remember Toonami used to always say something similar when it was airing way back. But they also said the same thing about Naruto. The betrayal.

[sintzu]

DBZ was hailed as the most intense fighting "cartoon" of all time.

Since when?

Well the back of the Orange Bricks say

"Dragonball Z has been called the GREATEST ACTION CARTOON OF ALL TIME, and it's TRUE!" - Anime Insider.

So I guess thats something.

I think I also remember Toonami used to always say something similar when it was airing way back. But they also said the same thing about Naruto. The betrayal.

Companies always say things like that to promote popular products, it's not meant to be taken literally. I do think that both are up there though when it comes to long running action anime.

[Boo Machine]

Companies always say things like that to promote popular products, it's not meant to be taken literally. I do think that both are up there though when it comes to long running action anime.

And it works to. I remember being a kid hearing Toonami saying DBZ was the greatest action cartoon in the world, and I was like, "FUCK YEAH IT IS!"

But yeah, even now I would say it's up there. I don't know if I 'd call it the best though.

[Vegeta123]

Companies always say things like that to promote popular products, it's not meant to be taken literally. I do think that both are up there though when it comes to long running action anime.

And it works to. I remember being a kid hearing Toonami saying DBZ was the greatest action cartoon in the world, and I was like, "FUCK YEAH IT IS!"

But yeah, even now I would say it's up there. I don't know if I 'd call it the best though.

It's not even close to the best. Maybe of its time but not counting everything Anime has produced. Delusional to even think its the best.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Mikado, I have no idea why you posted those advertising images for when I never denied Bandai's sponsorship role. They are ten second brought to you by commercials by the way which is done for the TV broadcast by Fuji and is not a production credit.

They are not involved in the creation process by any means has been my stance from the beginning and that's it. The committee members as evident in the production credits are Fuji, Toei and Yomiko. Their decision can be to please their sponsors(Bandai), but its still their decision. The funding is done by the production committee, again I posted the info about it in the production committee link.

Isn't your and many other fans' problems with DBS is that it has become a toy commercial? If so, blame the committee. They are the culprits here. Sponsor pleasing decisions are being made by them. What I don't buy is what you and some people are trying to say that Bandai is somehow directly influencing the writing process which there is no evidence of. I'm just saying blame the right people.

[sintzu]

It's not even close to the best. Maybe of its time but not counting everything Anime has produced. Delusional to even think its the best.

It's unfair to compare it to everything cause other shows that have less episodes and more time to be worked on will come out on top. DB is 609 episodes long and still going so it should be compared to other similar long running shows like Naruto and One Piece which have similar production.

[TheMikado]

Mikado, I have no idea why you posted those advertising images for when I never denied Bandai's sponsorship role. They are ten second brought to you by commercials by the way which is done for the TV broadcast by Fuji and is not a production credit.

They are not involved in the creation process by any means has been my stance from the beginning and that's it. The committee members as evident in the production credits are Fuji, Toei and Yomiko. Their decision can be to please their sponsors(Bandai), but its still their decision. The funding is done by the production committee, again I posted the info about it in the production committee link.

Isn't your and many other fans' problems with DBS is that it has become a toy commercial? If so, blame the committee. They are the culprits here. Sponsor pleasing decisions are being made by them. What I don't buy is what you and some people are trying to say that Bandai is somehow directly influencing the writing process which there is no evidence of. I'm just saying blame the right people.

Bandai does influence the writing process. The show is designed in such a way to please their sponsors. I'm never once said Bandai sits up in their creative direction meetings and discusses the production process. But when the production team meets with their sponsors what exactly do you think they talk about? Sponsors have many avenues to explore including things like product placement. In a sitcom this could be a Pepsi bottle or in case a special form or character which sells well. There is absolutely a correlation between what sponsors what and what ends up on our screens. Trying to pretend this link doesn't exist is ridiculous. I don't blame anyone involved for anything because the show exists for a specific purpose it's to make money for someone, it's a business. It's objective and intent is different than DB and Z. This is what the relation to the rest of the thread is.

Super is fundamentally different at the basic production level and it's business model is different. This results in a different quality of product. I don't understand what the issue with anything I stated is. Bandai sponsors it through funding. I refuted your claims that Bandai does not pay into Super's production, I explained the link to previous projects such as Kai where Bandai approached Toei to produce a series but took no credit nor sat on a committee. I am showing you the various links and how this is no different than anything Bandai has done before.

[KBABZ]

According to that logic Bandai, Kellog's and Glico sponsoring GT influenced the story, right? Maybe that's the real reason why GT sucked!

[SaiyanGod117]

Mikado, I have no idea why you posted those advertising images for when I never denied Bandai's sponsorship role. They are ten second brought to you by commercials by the way which is done for the TV broadcast by Fuji and is not a production credit.

They are not involved in the creation process by any means has been my stance from the beginning and that's it. The committee members as evident in the production credits are Fuji, Toei and Yomiko. Their decision can be to please their sponsors(Bandai), but its still their decision. The funding is done by the production committee, again I posted the info about it in the production committee link.

Isn't your and many other fans' problems with DBS is that it has become a toy commercial? If so, blame the committee. They are the culprits here. Sponsor pleasing decisions are being made by them. What I don't buy is what you and some people are trying to say that Bandai is somehow directly influencing the writing process which there is no evidence of. I'm just saying blame the right people.

Bandai does influence the writing process. The show is designed in such a way to please their sponsors. I'm never once said Bandai sits up in their creative direction meetings and discusses the production process. But when the production team meets with their sponsors what exactly do you think they talk about? Sponsors have many avenues to explore including things like product placement. In a sitcom this could be a Pepsi bottle or in case a special form or character which sells well. There is absolutely a correlation between what sponsors what and what ends up on our screens. Trying to pretend this link doesn't exist is ridiculous. I don't blame anyone involved for anything because the show exists for a specific purpose it's to make money for someone, it's a business. It's objective and intent is different than DB and Z. This is what the relation to the rest of the thread is.

Super is fundamentally different at the basic production level and it's business model is different. This results in a different quality of product. I don't understand what the issue with anything I stated is. Bandai sponsors it through funding. I refuted your claims that Bandai does not pay into Super's production, I explained the link to previous projects such as Kai where Bandai approached Toei to produce a series but took no credit nor sat on a committee. I am showing you the various links and how this is no different than anything Bandai has done before.

You're debating with too much assumption and guesswork, Bandai is nothing more than a toy/video game manufacture -distributor to the Dragon Ball series. The only business exchange that is known between Toei and Bandai, is the exchange of licenses, Toei doesn't need to appease Bandai because (one) there not in position where they have to do so (two) Bandai is already compensated and satisfied with the Dragon Ball license. Which was what they wanted in the first place, they make the toys, apps (Dokkan Battle), and games (Dragon Ball Xenoverse and FighterZ)and reap in the money they make from them.