Asian characters in Dragon Ball

[MasenkoHA]

I don't get where people are getting the 'Bulma is white' idea from.

She has a rifle hanging in her bedroom. Sounds pretty white American to me.

[Jaetinh]

If they're human you would look at other aspects, yes?

Yes, and it's important to note why. Reason being that a human in an Asian-like setting is most likely a native of that setting. An alien is definitely not a native.

Unless Toriyama planned on making him an alien from the beginning - which he didn't since there's absolutely nothing that indicates that, then point proven. In the mind of the author, he was written and drawn as an Asian human being until he later decided to create an alien race based on Goku and thereby making the Saiyans Asian inspired/looking aliens.

Doesn't matter what Toriyama planned or what he had in his mind. The only thing that matters is in-universe consistency. In-lore, Goku was always an alien. That being a later reveal means, even retroactively, he was never human.

Nappa looks white to you while he looks Asian to me. If the Saiyans had multiple ethnic groups they would most likely have had different hair and eye colours just like Earthlings are described. Toriyama decided to make them a homogenous race with his description of them.

You're confusing ethnicity with race.

China alone, for example, has multiple ethnic groups. Africa has thousands of ethnic groups.

And what constitutes an ethnic group doesn't necessarily come down to just hair and eye color. And in fact, it doesn't just come down to physical features. Different ethnicities can look almost identical.

It does matter, him being revealed as an alien later on doesn't change anything. It doesn't change that he was based on Sun Wukong, has the same name, lives in a Chinese inspired setting etc. Toriyama didn't place him in the Western Dragon Ball World, he didn't give him a Western Dragon Ball name (Bulma, Trunks, Lunch w/e), he didn't give him blue eyes and blond hair. He decided to make him a tan/"yellow", black eyed and black haired Asian, give him an Asian name, place him in the mountains of "China", make him wear Chinese martial arts clothes etc. It's not a coincidence. Son Goku was created as an Asian boy and the Saiyans were based on him. Those are the facts. Even if it was the other way around, Saiyans are still described as "yellow", black eyed and black haired. When have you EVER seen people aside from East and Southeast Asians being referred to as "yellow"?

Remember how you said I was putting words in your mouth? How am I wrong though? You're doing absolutely everything you can to deny Goku of being Asian. "I never said I thought Goku looked white either." and yet you would cast a white character to portray him in live action. Isn't it obvious? You're denying Son Goku of being Asian because you believe Son Goku could or should be white. Son Goku alongside Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yajirobe, Chaozu and Yamcha are clearly Asians. This isn't a group of one white protagonist and his Asian pals. This white savior trope is something you're used to see in Hollywood with Iron Fist, The Last Samurai etc. but it sure doesn't exist in Dragon Ball. Delusional.

[jjgp1112]

I don't get where people are getting the 'Bulma is white' idea from.

She's from "The West" and her character is a stereotype of bratty Eruropean/American women.

And like Masenko said, she has a gun. Guns and Cheeseburgers are like the go-to stereotypes for American characters in Eastern works

[Adamant]

I don't get where people are getting the 'Bulma is white' idea from.

Bulma, the culturally ignorant outsider from a place far to the west of the China-inspired setting of the first arc, and the one character in that arc with a name taken from an English loan word, was "supposed to be Asian"?

I'm sorry, what?

[jjgp1112]

and thereby making the Saiyans Asian inspired/looking aliens.

I would argue Goku is supposed to look Asian. And by extension Bardock, Raditz and Gine. And maybe Vegeta. But I don’t think all Saiyans necessarily need to look Asian. Nappa could appear caucasian.

If the Saiyan saga was adapted into a live action movie, I could see someone like The Rock playing Nappa. The only DB characters that I could see being caucasian are Bluma, Dr. Gero, #16, #18 and Mr. Satan.

If not The Rock, then Batista. I think Polynesian and Pilipino (Rock and Batista's respective heritage) are also acceptable

And if 18's American, 17 has to be too . You could say their father is like, Greek or Italian, or any of those other European ethnic groups that have darker skinned white folks.

Also, even though Mr. Satan's character does fit with some Western stereotypes, he was based on a Japanese actor, I believe.

[Polyphase Avatron]

I don't get where people are getting the 'Bulma is white' idea from.

She's from "The West" and her character is a stereotype of bratty Eruropean/American women.

And like Masenko said, she has a gun. Guns and Cheeseburgers are like the go-to stereotypes for American characters in Eastern works

If we're going by the idea that Goku is based on Son Wukong from Journey to the West, then wouldn't Bulma be Tripitaka, who is also Chinese?

[MasenkoHA]

I don't get where people are getting the 'Bulma is white' idea from.

She's from "The West" and her character is a stereotype of bratty Eruropean/American women.

And like Masenko said, she has a gun. Guns and Cheeseburgers are like the go-to stereotypes for American characters in Eastern works

If we're going by the idea that Goku is based on Son Wukong from Journey to the West, then wouldn't Bulma be Tripitaka, who is also Chinese?

Son Goku literally shares the name with the Monkey King and has more direct parallels (the monkey motif, flying on a cloud, the extending staff) Bulma only shares the basic role of Tripitaka.

[kemuri07]

I don't get where people are getting the 'Bulma is white' idea from.

She's from "The West" and her character is a stereotype of bratty Eruropean/American women.

And like Masenko said, she has a gun. Guns and Cheeseburgers are like the go-to stereotypes for American characters in Eastern works

eeeeh...I think that's a stretch. I never got the sense that she's meant to be European. Instead, Bulma is a city girl solely meant to contrast with Goku's country bumpkin sensibilities. Think about when DB was created, around the time of the economic boom of Japan. A lot of Bulma's personality matches that of that sort of City Pop era. Of course there was a lot of western influence back then--but that's a lot of Japanese anime at the time. Shit, it's already been mentioned on this site how much Toriyama was clearly influenced by Star Wars.

So no..I don't think Bulma was meant to be anything more than a Japanese girl from the city.

[Adamant]

eeeeh...I think that's a stretch. I never got the sense that she's meant to be European. Instead, Bulma is a city girl solely meant to contrast with Goku's country bumpkin sensibilities. Think about when DB was created, around the time of the economic boom of Japan. A lot of Bulma's personality matches that of that sort of City Pop era. Of course there was a lot of western influence back then--but that's a lot of Japanese anime at the time. Shit, it's already been mentioned on this site how much Toriyama was clearly influenced by Star Wars.

So no..I don't think Bulma was meant to be anything more than a Japanese girl from the city.

LITERALLY the first bit of world building Toriyama does in the series period is saying Bulma comes from a big city "far to the west" of the clearly China-inspired setting they're in at the time.

[Melee_Sovereign]

It doesn't matter whether it was his birth name or not. He is primarily known by an Asian name.

Yes it does matter. He's related to his birthparents by blood. He's not related to Gohan.

Me not being Asian, if I were adopted by Asian parents and given an Asian name, I wouldn't suddenly magically look Asian.

I didn't say that being based off of an Asian character makes a character Asian. I said that being based off of an Asian character makes it more likely that the character should be played by an Asian.

Sure, I can grant you that. More likely, but not definitive.

From the looks of that game, the Monkey character is in no way "human" like Goku and the Saiyans are. More of a humanoid beast similar to Piccolo. But more importantly, it looks like that game bears little resemblance to Journey to the West in terms of culture, unlike with DB.

Nope. He's human, through and through. His look is a bit stylized, but that's just an artistic choice. I've played the game and know the lore.

It doesn't matter how fictional they are. The racism comes into play when you have non-Asian actors playing characters with Asian names based off of Asian figures doing Asian things in Asian settings dreamt up by an Asian author. And so on. It's not just about the look.

Not when the character is an alien.

Not a Scarface expert, but it seems like Tony Montana possibly has some kind of Italian ancestry, given the name and character origins. But aside from any of that, who says Pacino playing Cuban isn't wrong?

Wrong in what way? Wrong because it practically doesn't work? Or wrong because of some murky sense of virtue signaling?

In a practical sense, it did work. Because the movie is successful, and Pacino pulls off the role well.

I can certainly see how questionable it is for an English speaking Italian-American to be playing a Cuban immigrant. Additionally, the case of a "White" American playing a "White" Latino is a far cry from non-Whites like Asians being played by non-Asians.

And a non-Asian playing an extraterrestrial that's only presumed to resemble an Asian (even if the resemblance is correct), is a far cry from a non-Asian playing an actual Asian.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that Goku's character and appearance is based off 1) a Chinese folk character and 2) a famous Chinese actor and that the Saiyan race's characteristics are literally copy/pasted from Goku's?

I didn't ignore the first reason. I just don't agree with using that as reasoning to your point.

I wasn't aware of the second reason. Who is he based off of?

If there was an alien race of characters who happened to look like black guys all based off Anansi or some other African folk character...well I'd expect a black people to play them even though "They're aliens." You can't be obtuse about it.

Well that's your problem with having an expectation in the first place.

I wouldn't expect anything. I would simply look at what the writer/artist is doing. If the writer is unambiguously making this alien race all look black, then yeah. But an artist/writer can easily take an African folk character, make an alien race based off of that character, and choose to change them up a lot and add all their own little quirks and twists to it to the point where this alien race looks ethnically distinct (but maybe still looks human).

If the writer does that, then I'm gonna simply use my eyes and see what they are doing. I'm not gonna expect anything just because the writer happens to be from Africa. The writer is an individual, at the end of the day, with their own individual thoughts and ideas. What you expect from them, might be dramatically different than what they want to create!

Now, I look at what Toriyama is doing. I see the Saiyans and, at this point, think they are a distant derivative to Sun Wukong. They have their own quirks and distinctions from Sun Wukong, which are all significant. Sun Wukong is some mystical, magical figure with godlike powers and magic. Saiyans are aliens who are known to be battle-lusted, warlike, and ruthless, and use high-tech technology straight out of any sci-fi. They are quite different than Sun Wukong at this point. I also think Saiyans, if I were to compare them to any real life race, look ethnically distinct. They look like a fictional ethnicity, while still looking human.

This is simply what I see from Toriyama's work. No expectation on my part. Just observation.

[PurestEvil]

I don't get where people are getting the 'Bulma is white' idea from.

She has always given me that vibe of the angsty teenager only found in the "western" countries (eg America), from her facial complexion, to her hairdos, to her fashion, her English name (Bloomer), her own family looking white, her listening to rock music on her Walkman, etc etc etc.

[Melee_Sovereign]

It does matter, him being revealed as an alien later on doesn't change anything. It doesn't change that he was based on Sun Wukong, has the same name, lives in a Chinese inspired setting etc. Toriyama didn't place him in the Western Dragon Ball World, he didn't give him a Western Dragon Ball name (Bulma, Trunks, Lunch w/e), he didn't give him blue eyes and blond hair. He decided to make him a tan/"yellow", black eyed and black haired Asian, give him an Asian name, place him in the mountains of "China", make him wear Chinese martial arts clothes etc. It's not a coincidence. Son Goku was created as an Asian boy and the Saiyans were based on him. Those are the facts. Even if it was the other way around, Saiyans are still described as "yellow", black eyed and black haired. When have you EVER seen people aside from East and Southeast Asians being referred to as "yellow"?

Stories evolve and their lore reveals new things. Saiyans at this point, are very much their own thing. They're a distant derivation from Sun Wukong. And at this point, they look like their own ethnicity.

Remember how you said I was putting words in your mouth? How am I wrong though?

Because you said that I thought Goku looks white, and I never said that. I don't think Goku looks unambiguously white.

You're doing absolutely everything you can to deny Goku of being Asian. "I never said I thought Goku looked white either." and yet you would cast a white character to portray him in live action. Isn't it obvious?

Or an Asian, or anybody who can fit the role and capture his character well.

You're denying Son Goku of being Asian because you believe Son Goku could or should be white.

Again, I don't think Goku or Saiyans look white. I think they look like their own ethnicity.

Son Goku alongside Krillin, Tenshinhan, Yajirobe, Chaozu and Yamcha are clearly Asians.

And besides Goku, all those characters are human.

This isn't a group of one white protagonist and his Asian pals. This white savior trope is something you're used to see in Hollywood with Iron Fist, The Last Samurai etc. but it sure doesn't exist in Dragon Ball. Delusional.

Still trying to claim that I said Goku looks white when I never said that.

[jjgp1112]

Why do you keep ignoring the fact that Goku's character and appearance is based off 1) a Chinese folk character and 2) a famous Chinese actor and that the Saiyan race's characteristics are literally copy/pasted from Goku's?

I didn't ignore the first reason. I just don't agree with using that as reasoning to your point.

I wasn't aware of the second reason. Who is he based off of?

Goku is based on Jackie Chan. It's even more obvious when you look at his prototype designs and predecessors - I believe he was pressured by Torishima to give him the crazy hair. Toriyama has even said he can't picture anybody other than Young Jackie Chan playing Goku in a movie.

[Melee_Sovereign]

Goku is based on Jackie Chan. It's even more obvious when you look at his prototype designs and predecessors - I believe he was pressured by Torishima to give him the crazy hair. Toriyama has even said he can't picture anybody other than Young Jackie Chan playing Goku in a movie.

Ehh, I mean he doesn't really look like Jackie Chan, but okay.

This is why I like to adhere to the concept of Death of the Author.

[Melee_Sovereign]

If the Saiyan saga was adapted into a live action movie, I could see someone like The Rock playing Nappa. The only DB characters that I could see being caucasian are Bluma, Dr. Gero, #16, #18 and Mr. Satan.

I always thought of Mr. Satan as either being Middle Eastern or mixed Black/White.

Also, General Blue and Commander Red are White. Launch is also White. I'm sure there's even more than that.

[MasenkoHA]

If the Saiyan saga was adapted into a live action movie, I could see someone like The Rock playing Nappa. The only DB characters that I could see being caucasian are Bluma, Dr. Gero, #16, #18 and Mr. Satan.

I always thought of Mr. Satan as either being Middle Eastern or mixed Black/White.

Also, General Blue and Commander Red are White. Launch is also White. I'm sure there's even more than that.

General Blue sure because he’s definitely suppose to be German. Not sure about Lunch or Red though.


Mr.Satan always came off as a parody of American pro wrestlers which seems to be a predominantly white sport

[ABED]

Goku is based on Jackie Chan. It's even more obvious when you look at his prototype designs and predecessors - I believe he was pressured by Torishima to give him the crazy hair. Toriyama has even said he can't picture anybody other than Young Jackie Chan playing Goku in a movie.

Ehh, I mean he doesn't really look like Jackie Chan, but okay.

This is why I like to adhere to the concept of Death of the Author.

Not sure death of the author applies to character design.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Anyway I'd say that Goku is definitely based on an Asian person, but I wouldn't necessarily say the same of every Saiyan character.

Of course maybe that's just because I've seen fanart of black/dark-skinned Saiyans and they looked like something that wouldn't be out of place in the DBU.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

Not sure death of the author applies to character design.

Death of the author applies the interpretation of a text, in manga/comics the visuals are their text, character design are part of the visuals, therefore death of the author can be applied to character design.