Welp, I’m done, never thought I’d say it, but I’m done.

[Grimlock]

why would he have to when he's achieved his goals? Why grow when he doesn't lose anything as a result of his poor decisions?

I ask those questions myself too. Why character development? Why progress forward when you can go backward and make the same mistakes? Why grow indeed!?

To hell with any of that, let's do it already!

[Jack Bz]

I will never understand the collective backlash after Goku gave Moro a senzu. Especially with the fact that it was inconsequential and in character with his past actions. The Moro arc has a lot of issues but I can't rationalise anyone pointing to that scene as some sort of stand out jumped the shark moment.

It’s just a frustrating and cheap way to extend the conflict.

But it wasn't the reason why the conflict was extended. The reason it was extended was because Moro absorbs Merus' powers. All he accomplishes with the senzu is breaking his own arm and being in the same situation he was just in.

The manner in which Goku fucked up was revealing that Merus was his master, giving Moro the idea in the first place.

[theherodjl]

But it wasn't the reason why the conflict was extended. The reason it was extended was because Moro absorbs Merus' powers. All he accomplishes with the senzu is breaking his own arm and being in the same situation he was just in.

The manner in which Goku fucked up was revealing that Merus was his master, giving Moro the idea in the first place.

Goku fucked up by allowing Moro to do anything after he gave him the senzu. He had personally seen Moro turn an inch of leeway into a mile of chaos several times and just decided "oh well, I got UI!" with such a complacent attitude. Goku should have known from a history of overconfidence and subsequent mistakes not to do that but he repeated a mistake anyways because...he just felt like it, I suppose?

[ABED]

why would he have to when he's achieved his goals? Why grow when he doesn't lose anything as a result of his poor decisions?

I ask those questions myself too. Why character development? Why progress forward when you can go backward and make the same mistakes? Why grow indeed!?

To hell with any of that, let's do it already!

I'm not sure what you're getting at.

[Metalwario64]

At this point I live for new forms, transformations and techniques. Dragon Ball is a simple, but very charming and entertaining series, and that was always one of the things I loved about the series, seeing the characters develop and get new, different looking forms to go with where they currently stand as fighters.

[Aim]

That's the problem with performative fan negativity - it damages the quality of discourse generally by making it a reductive exchange of grievances, and just seems to wear everybody down. What's the point of it? I genuinely can't fathom what benefit this topic was supposed to convey. What were you hoping for?

To vent. Nothing that I said was performative, if people can’t handle different opinions that’s on them. Trying to make other people’s issues my problem just because I made a post criticizing Super is not a good look. At no point have I suggested that no one is allowed to disagree or agree, so I’m not too sure where this is coming from as well, as you cannot fathom me making this post I can’t fathom the intense feelings I have brought out in some people with a simple thread. Honestly, it just seems as if people are looking for a reason to get heated, which I don’t have the energy. Many people agree that the form looks AF esque and the story telling consistently cannot take a step forward without taking two steps back, instead of complaining about my thread, I urge you to probably discuss the criticisms others have brought fourth.

[Cure Dragon 255]

I'm sorry but I am still sort of upset that Cipher mocked the topic creator so openly and didnt get anything. Not even a slap in the wrist. Aim is a nice guy, if a bit emotional and he didnt actually leave. So Cipher just mocked someone for the heck of it. I LOVE Cipher, their posts are epic and all. But I liked it better when they mocked only MRA assholes or other genuinely jerky or entitled assholes.


BTW I want that dub with all the Jeremy's and Milk Babe.

[Aim]

I'm sorry but I am still sort of upset that Cipher mocked the topic creator so openly and didnt get anything. Not even a slap in the wrist. Aim is a nice guy, if a bit emotional and he didnt actually leave. So Cipher just mocked someone for the heck of it. I LOVE Cipher, their posts are epic and all. But I liked it better when they mocked only MRA assholes or other genuinely jerky or entitled assholes.


BTW I want that dub with all the Jeremy's and Milk Babe.

Ty <3. I don’t think Mike likes me very much so I guess it stands to reason he’d be fine with me getting shat on. Oh well, :-/ I guess it is what it is, hurts a bit, but it’s out of my hands really.

[Cure Dragon 255]

He likes you fine. Please dont be melodramatic like that.

[TheSaiyanGod]

To vent. Nothing that I said was performative, if people can’t handle different opinions that’s on them.

You should take your own advice then, since you've bothered enough to not just answer me but complain about people being "touched" by your thread (which should be expected from the way you did it, which in fact it seemed performative).

Many people agree that the form looks AF esque and the story telling consistently cannot take a step forward without taking two steps back, instead of complaining about my thread, I urge you to probably discuss the criticisms others have brought fourth.

Criticisms are fine, and extensive discussions have already taken place with the most diverse opinions about it (and for that matter, I participate in other forums and discussions as well), and it doesn't seem that the purpose of this thread is anything like that, except for the attempt to evoke the same negative feelings without any kind of real debate.

Since as you can tell, some people here who aren't even actively following the series or have a clear bias against it comes here to dump similar criticisms but without any foundation. And just like you said you're doing this because of the sum of several factors, your thread was also just one more in the pile of things that bothered me about the subject and that I ended up externalizing.

One have to wonder why some people here in particular just keep following things they don't like the direction they've taken, or that they've had ill will from the start. The bias against this is there from the beginning and it only produces useless bickering and doesn't generate any further discussion because the person only cares about continuing to express how much they don't like it. I moved away from Naruto because I don't like the direction Boruto is taking and I prefer to follow things I like rather than keep following the series and constantly complaining about something that I won't have anything interesting to add from beginning

[BWri]

I don't think the original post was performative. Seemed genuine to me, which is how most people took it.

And I also don't think a little snark between users is the worst thing in the world. Do we really want to interact in a place where personality can't be expressed?

[Cure Dragon 255]

I love both Cipher and Aim and I think Vegetto EX's moderation is great. This is all just a big misunderstanding.

[jjgp1112]

I love both Cipher and Aim and I think Vegetto EX's moderation is great. This is all just a big misunderstanding.

Are you like, the Kanzenshuu post tMz or something?

[Spadexxione]

I'm sorry but I am still sort of upset that Cipher mocked the topic creator so openly and didnt get anything. Not even a slap in the wrist. Aim is a nice guy, if a bit emotional and he didnt actually leave. So Cipher just mocked someone for the heck of it. I LOVE Cipher, their posts are epic and all. But I liked it better when they mocked only MRA assholes or other genuinely jerky or entitled assholes.


BTW I want that dub with all the Jeremy's and Milk Babe.

MRA ren't bad people

[Magnificent Ponta]

To vent. Nothing that I said was performative,

Plenty of people have said they don't like the transformation design, in the (already existing) relevant topics; what we have here, however, is making a whole new thread (in arguably the wrong forum, presumably so it will get better traffic) dedicated basically to declaring to the world that 'Dragon Ball Super is dead to me because of this transformation, RIP'. I couldn't think of a more apt term for what that is, so I called it 'performative negativity'. Perhaps you'd prefer 'unnecessarily melodramatic negativity'? Either's fine with me - I'm trying to emphasise how unnecessary the whole thing is; so long as that's understood, the specific form of words is beside the point.

if people can’t handle different opinions that’s on them. Trying to make other people’s issues my problem just because I made a post criticizing Super is not a good look. At no point have I suggested that no one is allowed to disagree or agree, so I’m not too sure where this is coming from as well, as you cannot fathom me making this post I can’t fathom the intense feelings I have brought out in some people with a simple thread. Honestly, it just seems as if people are looking for a reason to get heated, which I don’t have the energy. Many people agree that the form looks AF esque and the story telling consistently cannot take a step forward without taking two steps back, instead of complaining about my thread, I urge you to probably discuss the criticisms others have brought fourth.

I have engaged some substantive criticisms of the new form in the Manga thread - and therein lies my point. There are hardly any substantive criticisms in this thread, so far as I can make out - it's a 'yuh-huh'-'nuh-uh'-fest, and I don't see anything changing that because it's basically baked into the topic premise.

That's what I'm saying I can't fathom. Where else was the discussion supposed to go, after that premise? You don't like the look of the transformation; you're clearly Very Upset by it (whatever 'AF-esque' is supposed to mean, tossed in there like it's a self-evident truth that doesn't need substantiation). Okay, and what? You're Done With Dragon Ball Super, It's All Over For You. Okay, and what? Are people supposed to argue you back into not being So Very Done With Dragon Ball Super? Or just agree with you that the whole thing's a dumpster fire now? What 'discussion' is meant to be latched onto and had, here?

While you may not have intended to frame it this way, in practical terms this thread is simply an invitation for some people to rag on something they already hate - and so they have, which about one second of reflection should tell you would also upset others who actually like the series and provoke a response of the sort that you're having trouble fathoming. And saying 'it's on other people if they can't handle different opinions' (and going so far as to tell them they shouldn't be on a forum if they get bummed out by them), while in the same breath confessing that you can't really handle other people's opinions about your opinions, is...similarly unreflective. Negativity invariably comes back around, and it's corrosive for all concerned.

I'm not saying any of this by way of attack; merely to try to get across that it's a real pity, because this whole thing was entirely predictable, entirely avoidable, and it doesn't seem to have done any good for anyone, including yourself. So I'm suggesting that maybe it might be better to focus on discussing the things about Dragon Ball that you still enjoy, simply because such an approach would be more likely to yield an actual discussion that you (and other contributors) might have a better chance of enjoying in turn. I'll leave it there.

[Aim]

I'm sorry but I am still sort of upset that Cipher mocked the topic creator so openly and didnt get anything. Not even a slap in the wrist. Aim is a nice guy, if a bit emotional and he didnt actually leave. So Cipher just mocked someone for the heck of it. I LOVE Cipher, their posts are epic and all. But I liked it better when they mocked only MRA assholes or other genuinely jerky or entitled assholes.


BTW I want that dub with all the Jeremy's and Milk Babe.

MRA ren't bad people

Most of them are reactionaries that deny rape statistics. It’s a counter movement in response to feminism, it’s purpose exists to make the world a worse place. Not every MRA is a bad person but they have a twisted world view.

[Aim]

He likes you fine. Please dont be melodramatic like that.

I’m literally not though, he’s consistently ignored me ever since the blow out where people essentially raided my thread on specific translations or whatever and straw-manned my positions. I wouldn’t be saying this if I didn’t think it was true, jeez don’t call me melodramatic.

[Skar]

I always recommend if someone reaches a point in a story that they're not sure they want to continue then take a break. This arc will likely be over by the time the movie is released so you could bingeread it then. Whether you read it by page, chapter, or volume or watch by episode or season, the same amount of content is released in a given time period. Bingereading is less of an investment so you might have a different opinion when you have more to read at once. You might still have the same opinion and nothing wrong with it but at least less time is spent on it by bingereading.

[Godo]

I for one really enjoy Vegeta's character development, or for some, decline in character development. Not all anti-heroes need to become pure heroes, and I like Vegeta acknowledging his pure instincts and selfishness openly. I never liked Vegeta going Majin and afterwards being like "I'm a good guy now". He seems more fleshed out to me.

Concerning Vegeta's design I accept it, since no eyebrows has been a thing since SSJ3 and wonky hair and color schemes since SSJ and also SSJ God, Blue and so on. I don't see his design as out- of- universe at all.
I would have loved to see a tail on him though, for no particular reason but that it would look cool.

[precita]

People always made fun of transformations in DBZ after the Freeza saga and Super just dials that up to 11.

If you told anyone we'd have 4+ new Super Saiyan forms with multiple hair colors after Super Saiyan 3 in canon, it would have sounded like fanfiction.