Dragon Ball Daima: Episode 11 - Official Discussion Thread

[shadowfox87]

I'm glad that Neva is finally with the crew. He seems to be on their side. I find it interesting that among all characters, Neva, is surprised that Goku and the gang can defeat a Tamagami. Surely, they know the strength of Kid Buu and they know Buu was stronger than the Tamagami. I can understand that Gomah is surprised but Neva?

All of Daima is fascinating but I do wonder how it will all fit in later with Super because all these events are pre-Super. We know now that there is one demon realm, not one per universe. We also know that a demon killed Jiren's master and that demon could be as strong as Jiren. If such a demon existed already, then that person would be stronger than most of the demon kings.

It's also interesting to note the ongoing theme - Dabura, Abura, Mechikabura (Bibidi Babdi Boo, Abra Kadabra). The revealed Supreme King Demon King and Abura both have some kind of amulet which could be the third eye. This means that the third eye really provides them with a lot of power - either in terms of strength or maybe something else.

I'm not impressed with Majin Kuu or Duu. I think they want to keep the gag because nothing can be cooler than the orginal Buu. Thus, the true challenge in Daima has to be something greater than Tamagami or the Majins. It will likely be Gomah with the third eye.

[Noah]

It would be amazing writing if Piccolo was actually deceiving Neva and it might all come into play when the wish is being granted (as we now know it's literally going to be Piccolo or Neva actually making the wish).

Sure it would be amazing, because it would make Neva think he has a trump card, just to get to the moment to use it and then Piccolo ends up blocking it. But no disrespect to Toriyama, I find it hard to believe he thought of something like that, but if it happens, It will be awesome!

[TheSaiyanGod]

My biggest gripe with Daima so far is the soundtrack. Aside from the great opening music, I'm not really connecting with any of the OSTs. Every DB series has some really good instrumental songs that I ocasionally go back to listen, but I'm not feeling that with Daima.

Which kind of sucks because the vibes of the show (adventure, mistery, magic, Demons) would make for great OSTs. Although we are apparently halfway through the series already, I'm still hoping to get some great OST on the level of Jaka Jaan (maybe in the climax something on the level of Ultimate Battle from DBS will play too)

[The Monkey King]

Ask yourself more relevant questions instead. What role will Neva play? How will Piccolo and his dynamic with Neva impact the story? These are more interesting things to consider than minor trivia like whether Piccolo does or doesn't know the language of a planet he barely spent any time on.

Who are you to dictate to someone how they should engage with the show they're watching?

I know you're the Number 1 Daima fanboy here but please get over yourself. Just because you don't give a shit about certain plot holes it doesn't mean other forum users need to think like you.

[StaticMania]

I'm sure even if they were to address this "plot hole"...

It will be seen as nothing more than lip service to the obvious "mistake" people were laser focused on instead of the actual story.

[Mr Baggins]

wellthatescalatedquickly.jpg

Who are you to dictate to someone how they should engage with the show they're watching?

My guy, if you're going to quote me while making a baseless accusation like that, the least you can do is quote my entire post where I made it clear it was a request and not a demand.

I'm fully aware that people consume media in a variety of ways. Lots of folks are evidently here to engage with the basic ABCs of the plot and not much else, while others (including myself) are here to engage with the underlying story. Some people are just in it for the power levels. There's even a thread in this subforum dedicated exclusively to Daima trivia, but you won't see me barging into that one to demand they stop talking about trivia just because it's not my thing.

I'm not so carefree that I'm unable to express criticism of some of those ways while suggesting people try to approach the content more meaningfully, though, particularly when I'm replied to.

I know you're the Number 1 Daima fanboy here

You flatter me, but I'd rather see if the show sticks the landing first before we determine I'm a fan, nevermind the #1 fan. Plenty of others here seem to be enjoying it as much as I have so far.

Just because you don't give a shit about certain plot holes

To be clear, I don't give a shit about any "plothole" that frivolous, regardless of the fiction I'm consuming. I am however grateful that a considerable chunk of people nowadays have come to agree that the type of discourse perpetuated by Jeremy Scott and his youtube channel is shallow and not a substitute for valuable criticism.

But if you wanna take a stab at explaining how like 3 pages from an early DB chapter in 1988 is even remotely a big deal as it relates to this episode, be my guest, man. Nobody's stopping you.

[Mister_Popo]

I found this episode better than last week’s. It had quite a nice flow, with the continuous switching between the two fights. Neva is an interesting character, and his reappearance makes things a bit more intriguing. Initially, his role was somewhat obscure. Now we’ve received an explanation that his role is more neutral, even somewhat sympathetic toward Goku and company. While this shift is surprising, I actually prefer it—unlike some people—if Neva remains a neutral or benevolent character. Namekians are generally not malevolent by nature, so I think we’ve already had two exceptions to that rule with Demon King Piccolo and Piccolo himself, which seems sufficient. At this point, it feels pointless to turn Neva, the creator of the Dragon Balls and the Tamagami, into someone wishing for evil (something more fitting for him or Gomah). That’s clearly not his intent, as he explained. Reversing that now would feel a bit far-fetched to me.

We already got a fantastically animated kickoff to Vegeta vs. Tamagami 2. The next episode is titled True Strength, and it’s said to feature an incredible animation staff. That’s promising! If the rumors about SSJ3 Vegeta are true, the next episode seems like the perfect moment to showcase that form. I hope Vegeta will ultimately defeat the Tamagami in an epic showdown.

Majin Duu / Kuu / Arinsu will likely manage to steal the Dragon Ball from Tamagami 1. The next battle for Goku and company will probably be against them. And Gomah? He certainly won’t stand idly by while others take control of his domain. He’s undoubtedly planning something. It would make sense if, in the end (possibly after a transformation via the Third Eye?), he became the final villain.

What I think would be a cool twist is if the dragon from the Demon Realm itself turned out to be evil to become the end villain. This could explain why Neva was so cautious, protecting the Dragon Balls and prolonging his own life for as long as possible to ensure that no one could summon the dragon without his supervision. Imagine if the dragon refused to grant the wish and instead, like Frankensteins monster, turned against its creator and the Z-fighters once he is set free...

Fusion will almost certainly be necessary to defeat the final boss—or even Majin Duu.

I found it funny that Piccolo couldn’t speak Namekian anymore. Whether it was meant to be humorous or just an oversight by Toriyama, I had a good laugh. Honestly, it didn’t bother me much.

Daima is a fun side story, but maybe also a missed opportunity. Besides the wonderfully animated battles, the lore, the episodic nature, and a large number of filler-like episodes, there was potential to create a more cohesive story that offers more storytelling depth for a Dragon Ball series. The fact that they’re now leaning back into cliffhanger endings won’t necessarily fix this, but it could lead to a somewhat satisfying conclusion, as the flow from one episode to the next feels smoother in my opinion.

[tonysoprano300]

I'm sure even if they were to address this "plot hole"...

It will be seen as nothing more than lip service to the obvious "mistake" people were laser focused on instead of the actual story.

As someone who actually likes Daima, that was definitely a plot contrivance and people have a right to point out the inconsistencies in the writing. It doesn’t mean you’re hyper focused on it over the actual story, I'm not sure what that’s even supposed to mean.

I can consider the larger narrative implications of Neva’s integration into the team while also acknowledging that the circumstances of that coming about was based on a contrived foundation. For a lot of people, stories work better when writers think those things through.

[StaticMania]

At this point it really does depend on if they actually address it.

But my point is that even if it is technically a plot hole...

---

This the internet though. So people hyper focusing on things like this is just neutral...leaning negative.
This mistake seems like the kind thing you'd joke about as the Simpsons Comic Book Guy, it is a mistake but it doesn't matter.

Is it worth making such a fuss if the story only experiences the smallest rima in its plot from this?

[AliTheZombie13]

I'm sure if Toriyama's name wasn't plastered all over Daima, everyone would be complaining about the "irrelevant-to-the-story CinemaSins nitpicks" to hell and back.

I don't know, but "We need someone who speaks Namekian to advance the plot" while they have someone who was clearly shown to be able to before seems to be quite an important thing to be upset about. If Piccolo still spoke Namekian, then Neva wouldn't be on the plane. It's an inconsistency that's already affecting the plot, no matter how much you excuse it.

[Piramid89]

I'm sure if Toriyama's name wasn't plastered all over Daima, everyone would be complaining about the "irrelevant-to-the-story CinemaSins nitpicks" to hell and back.

I don't know, but "We need someone who speaks Namekian to advance the plot" while they have someone who was clearly shown to be able to before seems to be quite an important thing to be upset about. If Piccolo still spoke Namekian, then Neva wouldn't be on the plane. It's an inconsistency that's already affecting the plot, no matter how much you excuse it.

I don't like it either, but let's wait and see if it's part of a plan by Piccolo to keep Neva close.

[SupremeKai25]

I'm sure if Toriyama's name wasn't plastered all over Daima, everyone would be complaining about the "irrelevant-to-the-story CinemaSins nitpicks" to hell and back.

I don't know, but "We need someone who speaks Namekian to advance the plot" while they have someone who was clearly shown to be able to before seems to be quite an important thing to be upset about. If Piccolo still spoke Namekian, then Neva wouldn't be on the plane. It's an inconsistency that's already affecting the plot, no matter how much you excuse it.

Toriyama's name is plastered all over Super and yet 1990s purists complain about an utterly irrelevant and stupid thing like Vegito's outfit matching Vegeta's Buu saga outfit that he no longer has in Super.

Your take might have worked before 2015 though.

[Mr Baggins]

I'm sure if Toriyama's name wasn't plastered all over Daima, everyone would be complaining about the "irrelevant-to-the-story CinemaSins nitpicks" to hell and back.

No. That's a terrible strawman with a hint of ad hominem laced in. If you're going to try and discredit someone's argument, focus on that and not the people making them or your misrepresented version of their arguments.

It's about the quickest way to get me to add users to my ignore list, since it shows they're not really interested in having a discussion.

I don't know, but "We need someone who speaks Namekian to advance the plot" while they have someone who was clearly shown to be able to before seems to be quite an important thing to be upset about. If Piccolo still spoke Namekian, then Neva wouldn't be on the plane.

They have someone who is clearly able to right now. This "plot contrivance" was addressed the moment it was brought up. Not one time is Piccolo not knowing Namekian presented as an issue for the group, which is specifically because the group already has someone that can speak it. What you're doing here is just reciting the ABCs of the plot without explaining why it's a problem.

Forget the plot, let's dig deeper. As was astutely brought up earlier in this thread, this neatly aligns with Earth's Dragon Balls being created by someone who doesn't speak Namekian as a primary language, and the loss of a secondary language parallels the real world. This also emphasizes who Piccolo is as a character, as he identifies more with Earth than with Namek.

So not only does this have no negative impact on the story that Daima is telling, it had a pretty negligible one even in the original run. Piccolo's use of Namekian during the tournament was brought up exactly one time when Popo turned on Kami's ship and never mentioned again. All plots by their nature are contrived, but this one is quite literally neither here nor there.

So no, I don't believe this is the kind of thing that would upset anyone that isn't just hyper-focusing on surface level nitpicks that they're trying to frame as critiques. There's a reason that barely anyone in this thread has mentioned it outside of this argument, or when they do mention it, it's just to say they weren't at all bothered by it. Obviously, that's because just talking about the plot is the least interesting way to engage with any story.

Hell, people outside of Kanzenshuu have said they forgot it was a thing at all. That's how little this matters.

[AliTheZombie13]

No. That's a terrible strawman with a hint of ad hominem laced in. If you're going to try and discredit someone's argument, focus on that and not the people making them or your misrepresented version of their arguments.

It's about the quickest way to get me to add users to my ignore list, since it shows they're not really interested in having a discussion.

My man, you literally told people in this thread not to discuss what you perceive as "irrelevant trivia."
And I quote:

I don't give a shit about "plotholes" this inconsequential and easily addressed, assuming it even qualifies as one. I implore y'all to not let the likes of CinemaSins and TvTropes reduce all analysis to this. It's a boring, incredibly pedestrian way to engage with any story.

Ask yourself more relevant questions instead. What role will Neva play? How will Piccolo and his dynamic with Neva impact the story? These are more interesting things to consider than minor trivia like whether Piccolo does or doesn't know the language of a planet he barely spent any time on.

Whether you add me to the ignore list or not, I really don't care.
I'm not gonna stop pointing out the elephant in the room because your worldview doesn't align with mine.
This is a discussion forum, and you're actively trying to suppress discussion with quotes like this.

[Mr Baggins]

My man, you literally told people in this thread not to discuss what you perceive as "irrelevant trivia."
And I quote:

Your quote contradicts your premise. I implored (i.e. earnestly requested) people not to reduce all manner of their discussion to it.

But if you want me to elaborate on that further, I obviously can't stop people from just nitpicking if that's what they want to do. Just don't be surprised if fewer people are willing to interact with them because of it.

But also, this has nothing to do with your constant use of strawmen and ad hominems. This is further demonstrated by the post above, where you ignored the actual points I made in favor of a "gotcha". This ain't an elephant in the room, it's an ant.

[AliTheZombie13]

Your quote contradicts your premise. I implored (i.e. earnestly requested) people not to reduce all manner of their discussion to it.

But if you want me to elaborate on that further, I obviously can't stop people from just nitpicking if that's what they want to do. Just don't be surprised if fewer people are willing to interact with them because of it.

But also, this has nothing to do with your constant use of strawmen and ad hominems. This is further demonstrated by the post above, where you ignored the actual points I made in favor of a "gotcha". This ain't an elephant in the room, it's an ant.

What if I disagree with you that it's not that minor?
Suddenly, your post doesn't come off to me as "earnestly requesting" me to stop discussing things like this.
For example:

So no, I don't believe this is the kind of thing that would upset anyone that isn't just hyper-focusing on surface level nitpicks that they're trying to frame as critiques.

Have you ever considered, maybe for a second, that speaking like this is needlessly aggressive?
That you might be coming off as mean-spirited and belittling people for no reason?

Because when I read posts like this, it really does feel like you're saying people are stupid for having different opinions, and you're telling them to shut up, again, in a discussion forum. It's not exactly what you said, but it's how you come off like.

[JulieYBM]

At the risk of being a bitch...like...can y'all just stop? You've made your points, there's nothing left to discuss. Piccolo speaks Namekian in the Twenty-Third Tenka-ichi Budoukai. Piccolo cannot speak Namekian in Dragon Ball Daima and that seems to have no explanation for how it contradicts what was established in the aforementioned story arc. Voila. There. Over. Finished.

[Mr Baggins]

^ You're absolutely right. Though I must insist that I didn't call anyone stupid or tell them to shut up (I attack arguments, not people) there's clearly nothing further to be said here.

Toriyama's name is plastered all over Super and yet 1990s purists complain about an utterly irrelevant and stupid thing like Vegito's outfit matching Vegeta's Buu saga outfit that he no longer has in Super.

To be fair, Vegetto appearing in Super wasn't Toriyama's idea. He might have actually adjusted the clothing if he had a hand in the character design.

Is that irrelevant to the story? Sure, agreed, but you could kind of make the argument that Vegetto in general was.

[Neo-Makaiōshin]

I'm sure if Toriyama's name wasn't plastered all over Daima, everyone would be complaining about the "irrelevant-to-the-story CinemaSins nitpicks" to hell and back.

This strawman doesn't work when we had his name plastered all over SUPER back them fans still had complains about different aspects of the story.

[GhostEmperorX]

My biggest gripe with Daima so far is the soundtrack. Aside from the great opening music, I'm not really connecting with any of the OSTs. Every DB series has some really good instrumental songs that I ocasionally go back to listen, but I'm not feeling that with Daima.

Does this mean it's as bad for you as the Super Hero OST was for many?