Would Dragon Ball be successful in English-speaking countries if the old English dubs weren't Americanized?

[JulieYBM]

I'd also like to point out—even if this is annecdotal at best—that kids during that era were still seeking out unedited material. Violence is popular with kids lol

[Scsigs]

I think DBZ and Sailor moon as well did it right. Release a dub to get popular with fans and then remake the series years later to be more faithful.

Dragonball however for some reason I guess do to the large fanbase decided it had to turn into fajbwars about Sub vs Dub vs Kai.

Ok, I'm gonna stop you right there. Legitimately, those arguments crop up because the OG Z dub had SO many inaccuracies to the Japanese version (a thing a dub into another language shouldn't do, mind you) that resulted in misinformation, dub-induced plot holes, changed character motivations & personalities, dub-induced memes out of serious moments, & cast some really ill-fitting actors on certain roles. Though ok for its day in some ways, when you look at not only what FUNimation gave us, but compare it to what the Japanese gave & what FUNi later gave, the Z dub is a relic of a bygone era of anime dubbing & children's media. Not to mention, the dub is pretty cynical when you take into account that they made it to appeal to as many Western children as possible, damn the consequences.
Kai's dub, by contrast, was made to be as accurate to the original Japanese dialogue as possible & it reflects the quality of it.

I want to argue yes but at the same time I remember parents thinking Lord Zedd was too scary for the Power Rangers at the time.

I’m gonna be honest chief, I’m having a hard time following what that has to do with literally anything.

If Parents thought Lord Zedd was too much for Power Rangers and complained as popular as Power Rangers was would they have no done the same thing to a more faithful dub and uncut Dragonball is my entire point. Kids were allowed to watch Dragonball which led to its popularity but had parents being trying to get the show off the air or changed where would it have gone.

Bruh. Lord Zedd in MMPR was supposed to be scary, so the parents had a reaction that made sense even if they reacted harshly in wanting him removed from the show or toned down. But that's also an apples to oranges comparison. I think the more direct comparison you should make is probably the levels of violence in each since PR adapted Super Sentai & parents started complaining about their kids trying to replicate the fighting in the show even though it was largely toned down from what was in Sentai. I assume there were similar complaints about DBZ.
As for what you just said about parents trying to get DBZ taken off the air, that wasn't gonna happen. Though, DBZ had already been struggling for 3 years to find a suitable network to air on. It previously aired in broadcast syndication on various kid's networks before landing on Toonami in 1998/99. After that, Toonami was happy to have it, as was the main channel, Cartoon Network. Cartoon Network has had other action shows & shows in general that had a similar level of violence & subjectmatter to DBZ after Z came out, so I doubt they were gonna let it go so soon after finding a golden goose that was bringing in the ratings. Your argument is completely off-base.

[miguelnuva1]

I think DBZ and Sailor moon as well did it right. Release a dub to get popular with fans and then remake the series years later to be more faithful.

Dragonball however for some reason I guess do to the large fanbase decided it had to turn into fajbwars about Sub vs Dub vs Kai.

Ok, I'm gonna stop you right there. Legitimately, those arguments crop up because the OG Z dub had SO many inaccuracies to the Japanese version (a thing a dub into another language shouldn't do, mind you) that resulted in misinformation, dub-induced plot holes, changed character motivations & personalities, dub-induced memes out of serious moments, & cast some really ill-fitting actors on certain roles. Though ok for its day in some ways, when you look at not only what FUNimation gave us, but compare it to what the Japanese gave & what FUNi later gave, the Z dub is a relic of a bygone era of anime dubbing & children's media. Not to mention, the dub is pretty cynical when you take into account that they made it to appeal to as many Western children as possible, damn the consequences.
Kai's dub, by contrast, was made to be as accurate to the original Japanese dialogue as possible & it reflects the quality of it.

I’m gonna be honest chief, I’m having a hard time following what that has to do with literally anything.

If Parents thought Lord Zedd was too much for Power Rangers and complained as popular as Power Rangers was would they have no done the same thing to a more faithful dub and uncut Dragonball is my entire point. Kids were allowed to watch Dragonball which led to its popularity but had parents being trying to get the show off the air or changed where would it have gone.

Bruh. Lord Zedd in MMPR was supposed to be scary, so the parents had a reaction that made sense even if they reacted harshly in wanting him removed from the show or toned down. But that's also an apples to oranges comparison. I think the more direct comparison you should make is probably the levels of violence in each since PR adapted Super Sentai & parents started complaining about their kids trying to replicate the fighting in the show even though it was largely toned down from what was in Sentai. I assume there were similar complaints about DBZ.
As for what you just said about parents trying to get DBZ taken off the air, that wasn't gonna happen. Though, DBZ had already been struggling for 3 years to find a suitable network to air on. It previously aired in broadcast syndication on various kid's networks before landing on Toonami in 1998/99. After that, Toonami was happy to have it, as was the main channel, Cartoon Network. Cartoon Network has had other action shows & shows in general that had a similar level of violence & subjectmatter to DBZ after Z came out, so I doubt they were gonna let it go so soon after finding a golden goose that was bringing in the ratings. Your argument is completely off-base.

DBZ aired edited on Cartoon network and was already dumbed down when it did.

All I said was said was if it was left uncut or had a more faithful dub back in the day would parents have tried to complain about it or would it have still gotten popular.

I personally think yes but I'm just mentioning a possibility, we're already talking about a what if.

All anime dubs for the most part of TV at the time we're dumbed down for American audiences and edited to be more kid friendly for a reason.

I'm not defending the orginal Funi dub at all. I appreciate it for getting me into the series and I still like the Falconer score for the most part but Kai is better in each and every way and is how I got the series.

I just mentioned how in the anime space the Dragonball community is the one where I see sub vs dub brought up the most and now its OG dub vs Sub vs Kai to different degrees. Not knocking what ever version people want to watch.

For the final part of Dragonball had they shown Gero running throug Yamcha more uncut on TV for example I could see parents having problems.

The DBZ vhs for the most part came in both edited and uncut as I remember it being a big think growing up hearing the Z warriors swear and how much more blood was in the series.

[MasenkoHA]

I'd also like to point out—even if this is annecdotal at best—that kids during that era were still seeking out unedited material. Violence is popular with kids lol

Indeed. I contribute a huge amount or Dragon Ball Z’s success to the violence. Especially when Toonami allowed the characters to bleed when basically no other kids show was getting away with it

[JulieYBM]

I'd also like to point out—even if this is annecdotal at best—that kids during that era were still seeking out unedited material. Violence is popular with kids lol

Indeed. I contribute a huge amount or Dragon Ball Z’s success to the violence. Especially when Toonami allowed the characters to bleed when basically no other kids show was getting away with it

Yeah, I recall even the edited broadcast still feeling unlike anything I have ever experienced before with American cartoons. It was a real revolution.

[Hellspawn28]

Blood should be allowed in kids media, as people do bleed. I always hated how any blood gets edited.

[AlexSketchy04]

Let's say that instead of FUNimation, another company got the rights to Dragon Ball in North America and other English-speaking countries and did faithful English dubs of the classic 1986-1997 DB anime run. Would Dragon Ball be massively successful in America and other English-speaking countries if the old English dubs were faithful to the original Japanese versions and weren't heavily Americanized?

Ya'll would probably cancel me for this.

I understand why people take Mexico and Latin America as an example, and even Europe, but the American market is completely different from any of them, this is a more "puritanital" market when it comes to children's content.

A huge chunk of the world is very used to importing content from the USA and beyond, America isn't, LATAM is also very familiarized with serials and soap-operas with lots of violence, America isn't. I am Hispanic and grew up watching novelas, so I know what I'm talking about. I think Dragon Ball Z would have been Americanized, or at the very least censored to some degree on the states, script and visually wise. I don't see general audiences accepting a foreign show for kids, and I don't see the show having aired on a network with a much older audience, Fukunaga and Watson even mentioned it.

That said, I think think that changing the music and re-writes are pretty stupid, the show is "family friendly" enough that it doesn't even warrant it save for a few moments, same with the music, I always found the silence argument pretty strange because I recall other shows from the same era using much softer music or having silence, which almost never happened during the Funi days.

But well, that's my opinion on the matter.

I'll be honest, I think I was mostly correct, but instead of General Audiences, I would say executives, I don't see them accepting a show how it is was then.

Still, as Masenko mentioned, the show is clearly Asian even when whitewashed.

[GhostEmperorX]

Wonder if it's ever been gone over how, ultimately, Toei themselves just never cared one bit about what would become of their IP's overseas so long as the licensing companies for a given IP properly paid them their fees.
As in, whether the latter in each country would actually maintain the dialogue, BGM, etc or make significant alterations, omissions, and replacements was a decision that Toei entirely left to these companies.

And barring author intervention or the IP failing, they wouldn't normally seek to do things a different way.

Of course, as many a thread and discussion on the net can attest to, DB was far from an exception to this. Even if Funimation stayed rejected back in the 90's, something tells me that Toei wouldn't have introduced any detailed stipulations to whoever got it after Harmony Gold, even the more qualified ones, other than the usual (that it be aired on TV and succeed, after which they collect their money).

[JulieYBM]

Yeah, anime companies didn't much care for foreign markets as much as they do now back in the 1990s. I believe that Toei Animation North America is now the company personally overseeing the subs, dubs and streaming for their anime in North America, as opposed to Crunchyroll doing it all in-house?