Freeza's power levels?

[Dayspring]

I wonder how Goku's base powerlevel could have gone from 90,000 to 3,000,000. That's 33 times increase of of his powerlevel. Noone in Dragonball has had such a huge zenkai before.
That's why I believe more in the 15,000,000 powerlevel of Goku.
I don't give a crap about what the Daizenshuu says.

It is Son Goku the hero.

Goku did fight a lot ever since his arrival on Namek and it obviously made him much more powerful. Please don't ignore the official/canon Daizenshuu's it is uncouth to do so.

I read fiction to make it evolve in my fantasy. Therefore I don´t need the Daizenshuu to tell me how to interpret the story. It´s the story and nothing more. The story ended at the last chapter, not in the Daizenshuu.
What the Daizenshuu says is irrelevant for me. For me, Goku has the powerlevel of 15,000,000.

Totally within your rights, but why choose a fansite's mistranslation of the daizenshuu over the daizenshuu, especially when we've proven earlier in this thread that it's impossible by the manga's proof to be under 40,000,000?

Unless you're using the anime only, in which case it's all up for grabs and I'll shut up.

[Kaboom]

This is an extremely extensive and thorough analysis of the whole debate at hand. I think it's worth a good read.

*Reads*

...And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is a prime example of someone having WAAAAAY too much time on their hands.


Nevertheless, it's right. Sorry, Godo. I've been converted to the way of the Daizenshuu.

[Dayspring]

This is an extremely extensive and thorough analysis of the whole debate at hand. I think it's worth a good read.

*Reads*

...And THIS, ladies and gentlemen, is a prime example of someone having WAAAAAY too much time on their hands.


Nevertheless, it's right. Sorry, Godo. I've been converted to the way of the Daizenshuu.

**Has no idea how this mentions anything else apart from I've already pointed out earlier** I shall use my invisibility to raid women's locker rooms!

But it's true. We know Goku pre-kaioken > Vegeta > Piccolo > 1 million. So the Daizenshuu estimated 3 million. In the manga, there's no kaioken aura dillemma, so everything is basic math, based upon that 3 million. SSJ needs to be greater than kaioken x40, so the daizenshuu says x50. 50 x 3 million = 150 million.

I really can't see why it's so unbelievable. If the 3 million base is too unbelievable, fine, but it still has to dwarf 1 million. No matter how you look at it, SSJ = (more than 40) x (more than 1 million).

[Kaboom]

So if Vegeta on Earth, who was, what, a couple dozen thousand, could destroy a planet fairly easily... then SSj Goku and 100% Freeza... holy mackerel. It's like either of them could accidentally destroy an entire solar system by sneezing, or something.

...So, going by these kinds of numbers, how powerful should a Super Saiyan 4 Goku be? (GT's crappy portrayal aside)

[Humpski]

It's like either of them could accidentally destroy an entire solar system by sneezing, or something. [/i])

Kinda like how Superman did that one time.

[Godo]

It is Son Goku the hero.

Goku did fight a lot ever since his arrival on Namek and it obviously made him much more powerful. Please don't ignore the official/canon Daizenshuu's it is uncouth to do so.

I read fiction to make it evolve in my fantasy. Therefore I don´t need the Daizenshuu to tell me how to interpret the story. It´s the story and nothing more. The story ended at the last chapter, not in the Daizenshuu.
What the Daizenshuu says is irrelevant for me. For me, Goku has the powerlevel of 15,000,000.

Totally within your rights, but why choose a fansite's mistranslation of the daizenshuu over the daizenshuu, especially when we've proven earlier in this thread that it's impossible by the manga's proof to be under 40,000,000?

Unless you're using the anime only, in which case it's all up for grabs and I'll shut up.

Then explain this: Piccolo is said to be as strong as a regular Super Saiyan when the androids arrive. How could he in a three years span go from 1,200,000 (approximately) to 120,000,000 (just a guess about the strength of a weaker Super Saiyan)? He could take out Dr. Gero easily, whom should be at the same strength as Android 19. Vegeta, stronger than SSJ Goku on Namek had it easy with Android 19.
Let´s say then that Dr. Gero was at half of the powerlevel of a Super Saiyan, making him about 60,000,000. That makes it still impossible for Piccolo to have reached that level in just three years.

Please correct me if I´m wrong. I might have got the facts wrong.

[Duo]

Godo - How did you determine it to be impossible? Goku went from around 10,000 to 90,000 in six days. Vegeta went from 24,000 to at least 2 million in under a week. Also, look at Gohan's year in the Room of Spirit and Time.

We don't know how Piccolo trained, but in simply training himself he somehow went from 408 to over 2,000 in a year. In those three years, and also a year and a half before that, he was training constantly, and for 3 of them he was training with a Super Saiyan. What makes that growth impossible?

[Phenomenol]

You think that I would listen to someone that cannot even type english correctly, even though he lives in an english-speaking country?

LOL! How can you "LISTEN" to my posts?

My English may not be up to par but you sir can't even spell sense.

The Daizenshuu's are right you are wrong, that is the conclusion.

[Xyex]

How did you determine it to be impossible? Goku went from around 10,000 to 90,000 in six days. Vegeta went from 24,000 to at least 2 million in under a week. Also, look at Gohan's year in the Room of Spirit and Time.

We don't know how Piccolo trained, but in simply training himself he somehow went from 408 to over 2,000 in a year. In those three years, and also a year and a half before that, he was training constantly, and for 3 of them he was training with a Super Saiyan. What makes that growth impossible?

I'm not Godo but I can take this. The answer is simple. Piccolo is a Namek, not a Saiya-jin like those you previously mentioned. If he could make gains like you suggest he would not have needed to fuse with Nail and he could have trounced even 4th form Freeza before he'd powered up.

But it's true. We know Goku pre-kaioken > Vegeta > Piccolo > 1 million. So the Daizenshuu estimated 3 million. In the manga, there's no kaioken aura dillemma, so everything is basic math, based upon that 3 million. SSJ needs to be greater than kaioken x40, so the daizenshuu says x50. 50 x 3 million = 150 million.

I really can't see why it's so unbelievable. If the 3 million base is too unbelievable, fine, but it still has to dwarf 1 million. No matter how you look at it, SSJ = (more than 40) x (more than 1 million).

Except for one thing, the Daizenshuu fails to consider previous forms of Freeza. IF Goku isn't using Kaio Ken x10 from the start then Goku's base power is GREATER than 3 million because Freeza's would be.

Form 1 Freeza: 530,000
Form 2 Freeza: 1,060,000
Form 2 Freeza, Power-up 1: 1,300,000
Form 2 Freeza, Power-up 2: 1,800,000
Form 3 Freeza: 3,500,000
Form 4 Freeza: 7,000,000
Form 4 Freeza 50%: 15,000,000
Form 4 Freeza 100%: 30,000,000

[Phenomenol]

Nevertheless, it's right. Sorry, Godo. I've been converted to the way of the Daizenshuu.

You have been converted to the path of truth.


Freeza's power level is accurate.

[Godo]

You think that I would listen to someone that cannot even type english correctly, even though he lives in an english-speaking country?

LOL! How can you "LISTEN" to my posts?

My English may not be up to par but you sir can't even spell sense.

The Daizenshuu's are right you are wrong, that is the conclusion.

No! Listen "to someone". You cannot even read English, how pathethic. Why should I believe that you even understand what the Daizenshuu says?

By the way, Xyex, head on the nail!

[Folken-sama]

Godo, if you can't find anything to reply when people say the Daizenshû numbers are accurate and you are wrong, at least don't start being rude...

[Duo]

I'm not Godo but I can take this. The answer is simple. Piccolo is a Namek, not a Saiya-jin like those you previously mentioned. If he could make gains like you suggest he would not have needed to fuse with Nail and he could have trounced even 4th form Freeza before he'd powered up.

If he could get 5 times stronger training with someone weaker than himself in one year, then I still don't see what being a "non-saiyan" has to do with it. He was on Kaio's world for Six days.

[caejones]

Umm, maybe since Piccolo was fused with Nail, Piccolo's power increased and Nail's power increased and what we saw was the result of if they had fused post training? Yeah, didn't think so.

[Phenomenol]

No! Listen "to someone". You cannot even read English, how pathethic. Why should I believe that you even understand what the Daizenshuu says?

By the way, Xyex, head on the nail!

Excuse me, how can you "listen to someone" on a forum?

You need a class on jokes!

I can understand that the Daizenshuu's (OFFICIAL Books)! has a number by Freeza's powerlevel. Not much to understand, considering it is his damn battle power.

[Tyro]

For Christ's sake!

lis·ten
–verb (used without object)
1. to give attention with the ear; attend closely for the purpose of hearing; give ear.
2. to pay attention; heed; obey (often fol. by to): Children don't always listen to their parents.

He's obviously talking about #2.

Dictionary.com

[Duo]

Umm, maybe since Piccolo was fused with Nail, Piccolo's power increased and Nail's power increased and what we saw was the result of if they had fused post training? Yeah, didn't think so.

Who's to say that fusing with Nail didn't result in Piccolo getting more out of training? We don't know. It isn't said one way or the other. What we do have is the Daizenshuu spelling out that it's possible for him to make that gain in 4.5 years.

[Dragon Ball Daisuki]

It seems to me that at this point in the series, the more traditional training techniques became obsolete, and most characters had to find new ways to work around their limits.

The way I see it, every character has a base level and a maximum. Take Son Gohan during the early Cell arc, for instance. He couldn't hold the SSJ form, probably because he was not used to using so much of his reserves at once -- and he broke concentration. But if he raises his base, reaching and maintaining his maximum is that much easier.

My point being this: I don't think "training" in DBZ is just lifting weights anymore. That's part of it. I think it's the combination of training one's body and mind. You train your body (base level) by wearing weights and sparring and using gravity machines. You train your mind through meditation and similar techniques, and this increases the range of your power as well (ex: 100-300 BP becomes 100-500 BP). It's increasing your base vs. increasing your maximum. As the series goes on, I think the character's are just able to pull out higher numbers.

But it does you no good to have a range of 100-1,000,000 BP (you'll never even reach those higher numbers during battle) and thus increasing your base form becomes necessary. We can only imagine how this is done outside of the realm of heavy weights and technology aids, but once the body is conditioned, then the higher levels can be reached. Try to reach higher levels without building up your base, and... the body will start to break down. Maybe this is what happens with Kaio-ken. So really, there's no limit to how much a person can increase their level in a few years.

It's all relative. If someone like Kuririn starts off with a maximum of five, as the early years of progression occur, sure, his power is multiplying at an incredible rate. But ultimately, at higher levels, 100 BP and 150 BP don't seem all that different. Likewise, though 1,000,000 BP seems impressive one day, through ki control it will be dwarfed in a matter of years.

Anyways, that's my speculation.

I assume Piccolo was around 15,000,000 here, due to the Super Saiya-jin comment. No. 20 was probably close to 10 million? Does that seem accurate? And Goku gets 25 million in my book. His level doesn't increase nearly enough, proportionally, since he's training with fighters under his level (Piccolo and Son Gohan) and since he's mainly focusing on using SSJ without straining his body too much.

[alakazam^]

Who says that Piccolo's power level was that of a Super Saiya-jin when #19 and #20 appeared? I though that was only when he joined with Kami.

[Godo]

Who says that Piccolo's power level was that of a Super Saiya-jin when #19 and #20 appeared? I though that was only when he joined with Kami.

We know that it is far above the level of a Super Saiyan when he fuses with Kami, mainly because of that he was even with Android 17 in their fight. Vegeta got owned by the weaker Android 18 as a Super Saiyan.