Vegeta flipping off

Ran Fuan · Post by **Ran Fuan** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:11 pm

Duo wrote:I find it humorous that Tenshinhan returned the finger by breaking Yamcha's leg.

Theres something I've missed.

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:23 pm

COCONUT MILK wrote:
bkev wrote:You guys DO know that the finger doesn't mean anything in Japan right?
Just making sure. It can be used for anything.
Example, in this shot from TM! OVA Washu is giving the bird after just explaining why her invention is "so perfect!"
I imagine in that context it was used as a victory symbol.
Since america raped japan with those A-bombs and occupied it, japanese have used all of the hand signs americans do. Mainly the two finger peace sign..

That's Winston Churchill's "victory sign", not a "peace sign". It got misused during the 60s. >_<

EDIT: Okay, nevermind; that was already corrected. It's still misused by a lot of people, though.

Okaaay. I just typed up a friggin' long reply to those people talking about how dropping atomic bombs on Japan was unethical or stupid (I consider it not as such given the circumstances then), but seeing as how that side-debate seems to have calmed down somewhat and that it was really off-topic anyway... I'm not gonna bother posting it. I'll probably just save it to my computer or something, I dunno... not worth sparking it up again... v.v I'll pull it out again if someone decides to actually bring it up after this, though. Just thought I'd warn you.

Ehh... I've seen that picture before of various cast members flipping off Cell. Even got it saved on my computer, I think. Sometimes I've wondered if the middle fingers were edited in, though, considering how they were drawn (look at Yamcha's to see what I mean; it's a bit oddly bent, as if he originally had his hand held out in just a fist. Your finger tends to stick out a bit and stand straighter when you actually use the gesture). Not to mention, I think I recall seeing some time back a version of the same image with everyone just holding out closed fists, with no birds flipped. I guess I'll just have to check the cover page to chapter 371 to see whether or not that's the case.

While there's a lot of people who'll go out of their way to edit out potentially offensive material, true, I've noticed there ARE quite a few people who'll look for or place said material where it NEVER existed or was intended to be before. So I have to make sure... this seems like one of those images where it could have been edited either way, and considering VIZ's past deeds with the manga... I for one may never know what was there and what wasn't. @_@

... Does anyone have an actual copy of the Kanzenban who could scan that particular image in so I can see just what was in the original drawing? o_o;

Mr. Announcer · Post by **Mr. Announcer** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 5:34 pm

Ran Fuan wrote:
Duo wrote:I find it humorous that Tenshinhan returned the finger by breaking Yamcha's leg.
Theres something I've missed.

This refers to the 22nd TB where Yamucha flipped Tenshinhan off and well, they ended up fighting each other in the tournament which resulted in Yamucha's leg getting gruesomely broken. Lesson: Giving the finger=serious business.

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Thu Aug 16, 2007 9:50 pm

KinoFourpaws wrote:I just typed up a friggin' long reply to those people talking about how dropping atomic bombs on Japan was unethical or stupid

Unethical.
Using massive civilian casualties in order to compel a government to surrender... well, that's called "terrorism".
So... yeah, "somewhat" unethical.

(I consider it not as such given the circumstances then)

I'd be happy to hear your counter-arguments (via PM, I guess, since I can't see any section of the forums where we could accomodate such a debate without being off-topic (??)).

mysteriousdbzgt · Post by **mysteriousdbzgt** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:53 am

I just noticed in the manga, super buu does it aswell after he absorbs Vegetto, but in the viz book his finger is down. I was flipping through the book (Dragonball Forever), and i noticed a picture of him doing the exact same pose but his finger up??

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 7:54 am

Olivier Hague wrote:
KinoFourpaws wrote:I just typed up a friggin' long reply to those people talking about how dropping atomic bombs on Japan was unethical or stupid
Unethical.
Using massive civilian casualties in order to compel a government to surrender... well, that's called "terrorism".
So... yeah, "somewhat" unethical.

(I consider it not as such given the circumstances then)
I'd be happy to hear your counter-arguments (via PM, I guess, since I can't see any section of the forums where we could accomodate such a debate without being off-topic (??)).

...

You just had to post your retort on here instead of in that nice little PM you sent me, didn't you?

Seems I indirectly sparked it up again anyway... @_@

mysteriousdbzgt wrote:I just noticed in the manga, super buu does it aswell after he absorbs Vegetto, but in the viz book his finger is down. I was flipping through the book (Dragonball Forever), and i noticed a picture of him doing the exact same pose but his finger up??

Yeah... like I said, I'm pretty sure Viz probably edited that kind of stuff out in the English version. I certainly wouldn't put it past them, considering what they did to poor Mr. Popo...

This is why I asked if someone had the Kanzenban available to scan (or heck, the tankobon (sp?) is probably even better... ). I know I can't rely on flipping through that volume of the manga at the local bookstore just to confirm whether or not they were actually flipping the finger in those scenes...

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Fri Aug 17, 2007 10:53 am

KinoFourpaws wrote:You just had to post your retort on here instead of in that nice little PM you sent me, didn't you?

I just didn't like how you were putting words in our mouths ("unethical or stupid").
My arguments haven't changed, really. I'm just waiting for yours, now.

(and just so people don't get the wrong idea, my "nice little PM" really was a nice little PM... absolutely no insults nor anything like that...)

KinoFourpaws · Post by **KinoFourpaws** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:12 am

Olivier Hague wrote:
KinoFourpaws wrote:You just had to post your retort on here instead of in that nice little PM you sent me, didn't you?
I just didn't like how you were putting words in our mouths ("unethical or stupid").
My arguments haven't changed, really. I'm just waiting for yours, now.

(and just so people don't get the wrong idea, my "nice little PM" really was a nice little PM... absolutely no insults nor anything like that...)

Well, you may not have said those words directly (and I'm not just aiming that comment at you, keep in mind), but that was the basic idea I got when reading through posts like Coconut Milk's. I believe that using "unnecessary" force--said so by Coconut--tends to translate to an unethical course of action anyway (like if you were defending yourself in a fight, and if you had the ability to just incapacitate your attacker, and you decided you'd just kill him outright). In fact, he/she DID mention something about America being unethical in terms of war:

COCONUT MILK wrote:I don't hate America, i love the place. But it's one of the least ethical places to live on the planet.

Just look at that war right now..

And, of course, a lot of people think wars like this current one, etc. are just plain stupid, so I kinda just made an assumption there...

I guess my argument's more with Coconut Milk than it is with you. If you were just trying to play Devil's Advocate, like Jerseymilk suggested, then I apologize for lumping you in with him/her.

Also... I was not trying to be sarcastic about the "nice little PM thing"; sorry if it came across that way. I forget sometimes that it's a little harder to convey what one means through written words than with actual speech... I was just wishing you'd said what you did here in that note instead so we didn't have to continue talking about it on the thread. Let's just do this discussion in notes from now on so we don't annoy people anymore about it... >_>;

So yeah... anybody wants to discuss the whole A-bomb thing being questionable and whatnot... PMs from now on, please? Or should we take it over to Daizex Randomness? :<

Anyways... BACK ON-TOPIC. 8D

Going back to the Buu-flipping-his-finger thing in the manga... I'm wondering: why did they edit that part out in the English version? The page with the various characters flipping off Cell I can KINDA understand, since that chapter was published in Shonen Jump where a lot of kids could see it... but they replaced Dragonball with a different manga before they even got to the Buu arc. If they were gonna edit stuff like this and Mr. Popo's lips, why couldn't they have just done so in the magazine and kept the manga volumes unedited? Or at least, why didn't they publish an unedited version of the manga to go with an edited version for kids so older fans could see it as originally drawn?

This manga censorship thing is ridiculous... especially since the very same company has published plenty of UNEDITED English translations of manga. Case in point? Battle Angel Alita... I swear, while I do like that manga, it's got brains exploding and gritty fighting up the wazoo... and hell, even the early volumes of Dragonball were unedited and just had a "For ages 13+" design on the cover...

Do they think that Dragonball is supposed to be just a kid's comic... ?

Olivier Hague · Post by **Olivier Hague** » Sat Aug 18, 2007 1:55 am

KinoFourpaws wrote:In fact, he/she DID mention something about America being unethical in terms of war:

Well, yeah, and so did I.
I can't talk for COCONUT MILK, but I believe that's the whole point, really: we're saying the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki were unethical.

And, of course, a lot of people think wars like this current one, etc. are just plain stupid, so I kinda just made an assumption there...

Yeah, but I'd say that's another matter, here...

I guess my argument's more with Coconut Milk than it is with you. If you were just trying to play Devil's Advocate, like Jerseymilk suggested, then I apologize for lumping you in with him/her.

Like I said, I do believe these atomic bombings to be nothing short of terrorism (and one could argue the bombing of Dresden doesn't fare much better in that regard), so I have a problem with my take on this being interpreted as "playing devil's advocate"...

I was not trying to be sarcastic about the "nice little PM thing"; sorry if it came across that way. I forget sometimes that it's a little harder to convey what one means through written words than with actual speech...

Well, I'm not saying that I thought you were being sarcastic, I was just a bit worried people would take it that way...

This manga censorship thing is ridiculous... especially since the very same company has published plenty of UNEDITED English translations of manga. Case in point? Battle Angel Alita... I swear, while I do like that manga, it's got brains exploding and gritty fighting up the wazoo...

Not quite the same audience, though.
(but I do agree about censorship being ridiculous, here)

Kanzenshuu

Vegeta flipping off

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