Piccolo (Android saga); How strong would he be?

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I hate you.

No, I'm kiddin. That was a well thought out post, Snail. I'll only speak on one thing, and that's the "Amplified energy" bit: To me, that quote only seemed to suggest (Givin the situation) that Gero didn't drain anything from Piccolo, simply because his power was suppressed; a skill which Gero had no clue about. Gero just thought he would drain Piccolo's energy, then, drain the same amount of energy after Piccolo was revitalized by the senzu, again, as Gero stated. The Androids have no concept of chi, or reading data correctly; that's why Gero thought he was already more powerful then Piccolo before/after draining his chi. Piccolo could raise his energy and suppress it, so whatever data Gero is reading as far as combat powers go, well, let's just say it's very inaccurate.

Piccolo also stated: "The energy you stole from me was nothing." I never really thought about the burst attacks, though when you see Goku's battle against the Ginyu, I can understand where it derives from.

[Horgus]

Speaking of the Androids and how strong they are to the other Z fighters... I just got the Season 4 set and I'm watching them all for the first time through. It looks like #20 would actually be able to beat Vegeta at SSJ if he was at full power. I never knew they were that strong. Gero's only problem was not being at his max and falling for Vegeta's bluff.

I really doubt this. #20 may have been able to win after Vegeta had exhausted most of his strength after defeating #19 (not to mention letting the aforementioned Artificial Human drain a large amount of power)

But #20 may have THOUGHT he could have won at his full power, but he couldn't even land a blow on Piccolo, who was supposedly much (how much is your opinion) weaker than a SSJ.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Given Dragonball’s story formula, we can safely say that the androids at their base surpassed Freeza and they could add to that power through absorption of Ki. Given that, we do not know #19 and #20’s storage capacity we will have to say that Vegeta and Piccolo surpassed Dr. Gero’s highest expectations. Could they have absorbed enough Ki to beat them eventually? Perhaps but the battles did not last that long.

[Rocketman]

Given Dragonball’s story formula, we can safely say that the androids at their base surpassed Freeza and they could add to that power through absorption of Ki.

So the Freeza Soldiers Gohan and Krillin killed on Namek were stronger than Vegeta? Spopovich and Yamu were stronger than Cell? Anybody in the Red Ribbon Army is stronger than Jackie Chun?

[Yamcha_krillin]

I think that both #19 and #20 are quite superior compared to Frieza especially after the power absorbtion.Android 19 was receiving such a beating from SSJ Goku and Vegeta without being significantly hurt and i seriously doubt that Frieza would be abel to take the same beating.

[Snail]

...

First and foremost, thanks for actually testing your patience and going through my last post, I wasn't sure anybody was going to read it . Moving on; I agree with the notion of Gero's sensory scans, and data input resulting as inaccurate upon the constantly fluctuating output of ki/energy/chi from the Z-Fighters. However, I also somewhat disagree with your take on the whole "Amplified Energy", 'burst method' ordeal. I'm in support of the belief that Piccolo was not informing Gero on his, and the rest of the heroes' ability to suppress, and then suddenly raise their power at will, but instead a method of attack. It's practically in the same vein as to what Goku explained to Ginyu.

Speaking of the Androids and how strong they are to the other Z fighters... I just got the Season 4 set and I'm watching them all for the first time through. It looks like #20 would actually be able to beat Vegeta at SSJ if he was at full power. I never knew they were that strong. Gero's only problem was not being at his max and falling for Vegeta's bluff.

I really doubt this. #20 may have been able to win after Vegeta had exhausted most of his strength after defeating #19 (not to mention letting the aforementioned Artificial Human drain a large amount of power)

But #20 may have THOUGHT he could have won at his full power, but he couldn't even land a blow on Piccolo, who was supposedly much (how much is your opinion) weaker than a SSJ.

Depending on how much Gero's full power is in the aftermath of absorbing energy from living organisms to his full capacity, there is a possibility that his power level could surpass a Super Saiyan's. There's a catch though. If any of the Z fighters' levels were indeed to have been near, equal, or over that of Gero's, they'd all have one factor in having that definite upper hand: The reliance in the burst attack method. The same applies for 19.

Given Dragonball’s story formula, we can safely say that the androids at their base surpassed Freeza and they could add to that power through absorption of Ki.

So the Freeza Soldiers Gohan and Krillin killed on Namek were stronger than Vegeta? Spopovich and Yamu were stronger than Cell? Anybody in the Red Ribbon Army is stronger than Jackie Chun?

Nice.

I think that both #19 and #20 are quite superior compared to Freeza especially after the power absorbtion.Android 19 was receiving such a beating from SSJ Goku and Vegeta without being significantly hurt and i seriously doubt that Freeza would be abel to take the same beating.

Nay. Goku could hardly do much against 19, he was fighting in a weakened state (heart virus). The virus had already taken affect and it's toll on Goku's body before the battle had even begun. It's a high possibility that his Super Saiyan abilities may have been hindered so much that he could've been weaker than his Super Saiyan state on Namek. Think of it this way: At this point Goku would easily have been torn apart if the Z-warriors were to have attempted to defeat Goku, whereas the Goku we saw against Freeza and Trunks would've slapped them all straight across the face with minimal effort. There is a big difference when Imagine Usain Bolt trying to run the 100 meter dash and winning, while in a state of cold, fever, anxiety, and excruciating pain shooting up and down your left arm and chest.

Vegeta wasn't giving it his all in terms of hand to hand combat, it was no different than a full grown man shaking a fly in a cup repeatedly for fun.

[Horgus]

and Vegeta without being significantly hurt

I can definitely agree that Goku's attacks didnt seem to hurt #19 very much, but every time Vegeta got physical with that android, his attacks had crushing effectiveness.

Kick in the stomach

Back flip and kick into air

Strong punch to face

Double hand blow to ground

Then, he RIPPED his HANDS off.

Unless I'm missing something, that looks like Vegeta totally dominated that fight.

[Saiyan-Professor]

Given Dragonball’s story formula, we can safely say that the androids at their base surpassed Freeza and they could add to that power through absorption of Ki.

So the Freeza Soldiers Gohan and Krillin killed on Namek were stronger than Vegeta? Spopovich and Yamu were stronger than Cell? Anybody in the Red Ribbon Army is stronger than Jackie Chun?

You know that I was speaking of major or semi major villains. Up to that point, #19 and #20 was supposed to be the chief enemies until the editors told Toriyama that those two would not suffice.

If the Androids were weaker than Freeza or on par with him, the Saiyans would not have a problem. Trunks by himself most likely could have taken them out by himself. Vegeta toyed with #19 just to see what abilities it had.

[Yamcha_krillin]

Nay. Goku could hardly do much against 19, he was fighting in a weakened state (heart virus). The virus had already taken affect and it's toll on Goku's body before the battle had even begun. It's a high possibility that his Super Saiyan abilities may have been hindered so much that he could've been weaker than his Super Saiyan state on Namek. Think of it this way: At this point Goku would easily have been torn apart if the Z-warriors were to have attempted to defeat Goku, whereas the Goku we saw against Freeza and Trunks would've slapped them all straight across the face with minimal effort. There is a big difference when Imagine Usain Bolt trying to run the 100 meter dash and winning, while in a state of cold, fever, anxiety, and excruciating pain shooting up and down your left arm and chest.

Vegeta wasn't giving it his all in terms of hand to hand combat, it was no different than a full grown man shaking a fly in a cup repeatedly for fun.

Goku was still stronger then Goku on namek,it was indicated by Tien when he said how amazing his CHI has become in those three years.

I can definitely agree that Goku's attacks didnt seem to hurt #19 very much, but every time Vegeta got physical with that android, his attacks had crushing effectiveness.

Kick in the stomach

Back flip and kick into air

Strong punch to face

Double hand blow to ground

Then, he RIPPED his HANDS off.

Unless I'm missing something, that looks like Vegeta totally dominated that fight.

He did dominate that fight but 19 wasn't badly hurt at all.Could Frieza take such a beating from SSJ Vegeta without being hardly damaged?

[Omiclock]

I'm pretty sure Vegeta had only just achieved SSJ; if you'll recall, even SSJ Goku had a hard time against Freeza, and I think it's safe to assume that Goku would likely be stronger than Vegeta upon his first transformation. Therefore, Vegeta would have likely been at the same level Goku was when he fought Freeza in SSJ, if not slightly lower, but he was still able to dominate 19 with barely any resistance. So I think it's safe to assume Freeza was probably stronger, considering he still put up a good fight against an SSJ, as opposed to 19, who got torn apart... Literally.

[Saiyan-Professor]

I'm pretty sure Vegeta had only just achieved SSJ; if you'll recall, even SSJ Goku had a hard time against Freeza, and I think it's safe to assume that Goku would likely be stronger than Vegeta upon his first transformation. Therefore, Vegeta would have likely been at the same level Goku was when he fought Freeza in SSJ, if not slightly lower, but he was still able to dominate 19 with barely any resistance. So I think it's safe to assume Freeza was probably stronger, considering he still put up a good fight against an SSJ, as opposed to 19, who got torn apart... Literally.

Piccolo said that he believed that Vegeta was stronger than Kakarrot and Vegeta himself knew that he was. You must remember that Super Saiyan is just a multiplier and so apparently Vegeta pushed his base further than Kakarrot pushed his own at that point.

[caejones]

With regards to Goku's strength under the influence of the heart virus...
It seems to me that there isn't enough information to conclude one way or the other here. Tenshinhan and Piccolo comment... and... blaargh! *head explodes*
*Has #19 fix it*
Vegeta, on the other hand, consistently fights like a showoff jerk throughout that story arc. So all this says about #19 is that he's Vegeta's... dog.
... And Piccolo doesn't call Goku Kakarot, silly.

[Rena Rune]

I honestly find it hard to believe Piccolo could have surpassed Freeza's level of strength before fusing with Kami.

Just think about it, he would have had to increase his power something like 50 fold to do that.

This speaks volumes about how strong androids 19/20 were in comparison to Freeza as well.

I personally believe that, from how easily Vegeta defeated 19, that the reason Piccolo was able to beat 20 was that there had to have been a wide gap between 20&19 and Freeza's strength, and an even wider gap between them and a healthy SSJ (in Vegeta and Goku's case).

The power level system in DBZ was retarded and it would have been a much better anime if the power levels were just boosts instead of becoming 20000 times stronger by the end of the series. Piccolo was able to blow up the moon at a tiny fraction of the power of Evil Buu...