Christmas blues :(

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:54 pm

You know, no matter how hard I try, I cannot find another active dragonball forum. I know Tweaker said not to post, but this is a pretty desperate situation and I wouldn't post otherwise. There really is an extreme lack of Dragonball forums that aren't this one that get more than 2 or 3 posts a week.

This is disturbing, because it means unless I get, let's face it, incredibly lucky and a forum I set up ends up becoming popular(very unlikely), I am forced to follow one man's rules and social constructs if I wish to participate in an active dragonball forum.

How exactly is it fair that people aren't being at all friendly, if there's really nowhere else to go?

When you have a monopoly like this, it ceases to be "Private property". Especially when on the one VAGUELY active other DB forum, I got attacked by someone from this forum - and they were ultimately acting like that because here on DaizEx, it is acceptable and even encouraged to do so. So as much as you can call a forum your private property, it doesn't exist in a vacuum.

If someone can find me a forum that's equally active as this, then that would be great. It still doesn't excuse people being unfriendly, but it would be better.

Put simply I have very, very strong beliefs against some of what goes on on these forums. It's not because I'm a rebellious child, I genuinely have a strong belief that the internet is degenerating because of things like this. Just ask Tweaker, he's known me for years. I don't understand why admin can't just realise the members make up their forum more than they do, and show some respect. It's ridiculous, the members outnumber the admin to a great degree. Trying to truly "own" a forum is like trying to own people and the relationships between them. Put simply most people like that aren't going to be sane or stable

Maybe members are happy on the surface to go along with it, but that's just because people tend to go with the flow. Honestly, could you really say you'd dislike it if VegettoEX & Co. actually listened to and valued your opinions? And if "being friendly" was important and not just following arbitary, poorly explained rules for the same of it? "This is his forum he can do what he wants" is the wrong way of looking at it. If the current admins did not create this forum, someone else would have, and potentionally have been more fair. With this forum existing, it's very hard to make another. It doesn't matter who has a "right" to what property, only what is BETTER. The whole point of having rights and ethics is undermined if you don't care about what does the most good.

I don't know how to explan this to people who seem me as a child for believing this. It's not that I'm underdeveloped, it's that I've been through the way you're thinking and found what seems to be a better solution. Most people tend to work from "logic" and ethics derived from a simple understanding of a religion, their social structure, laissez faire capitalism/objectivism, or flat out relativism, which is impossible to argue with and tends to be self contradictory, as people often put the acceptance of relativism up as an objective ethic.

I base mine on Utilitarianism and similar concepts. Most people do not, even if some of their ethics originate from it. This is partly why I am so diametrically opposed to the way you think. I simply do not view the world the way you do, but at the very least I'm being more logically consistant, if only people valued logic instead of singular concepts that need to be defended from the ground up, like "Ownership" or "Business". You still have to explain WHY that concept excuses the issue at hand.

Messageboards are failing as a medium.

When you read a bit chunk of thoughtful text like this and just reply with "They have a right to do what they want with this forum", aside from it no excusing your behaviour, it's ignoring everything I said. Having an argument with a DaizEx member on the other forum consisted entirely on this, him quoting large chunks of text and saying "So basically I can sum this up as BAWWW BUTTHURT". This is bad arguing, it's immature and irrational and hypocritical if you call someone else the child. But it keeps happening on internet forums, and on DaizEx is seems to be rampant amongst some.

I am not immature. I am just extremely and utterly ethically opposed towards authoritarian adminstration and believes it creates a kind of caustic, snotty poster than then goes and carries that attitude to other forums. If you disagee with my beliefs, then fine, I wish you'd recognise there are some more objective logical flaws in your argument, but on a more subjective level. But don't blast me with the typical bullshit uberconservative "Rebellion is always wrong". I came here because I was invited and I stayed because there was no alternative. I am not good at making forums that have people come to them. I have tried this before. This is an overly capitalist view of "free speech".

Heck, Tweaker used to be like Vegetto in running his "classy" forum and he DID change to some extent because of what I said. The difference is even if Tweaker is human and has some stupid viewpoints, he at least has respect for other people's.

I really wanted to make a DB action figure comic and have an audience for it, but I don't really know if it's worth posting it here. A huge shitfest popping up when I was just talking about Dragonball figures is insane, and me being blamed for it while the goddamn head admin eggs it on is just nonsense.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 8:58 pm

o.o; Rena, I agree with you that some users here can be unreasonable. You know what I do? I stay out of it. You can post here, but just don't get involved with said unreasonable posts. Most of them are jokers anyway...

...How else do you think we got the intro forum closed? :p

Plus, I think you're right - but I can see where everyone is getting the whole "BAWW BUTTHURT" thing impression... especially when you basically just joined the FUNimation forums to complain about daizex. If that is not the case, feel free to correct me.

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:01 pm

bkev wrote:o.o; Rena, I agree with you that some users here can be unreasonable. You know what I do? I stay out of it. You can post here, but jsut don't get involved with said unreasonable posts. Most of them are jokers anyway...

...How else do you think we got the intro forum closed? :p

The intro forum is closed?

This place seems very anti-social indeed. Given there isn't much of an alternative, I don't think this is fair. When it's more or less a monopoly, it shoudn't be admins decide everything, it should be an active discussion where everyone's views are recognised.

bkev · Post by **bkev** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:03 pm

Well, the "Tien" thread was never locked. I think that shows that there's at least SOME compromise going on here.

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:06 pm

bkev wrote:Well, the "Tien" thread was never locked. I think that shows that there's at least SOME compromise going on here.

But it's not going anywhere, and never will. The only reason it's not locked is so the admin staff can have a place to assert the same flawed reasoning over, and over. I'll admit in terms of being ban happy this forum is a litte better than others, I haven't even been suspended or gotten a PM warning yet. But at the same time, in terms of the word filter, and the admin encouraging harassment, it's one of the worst I've been on. I guess instead of banning people, it feels better to chase them away.

In the Tien thread Vegetto outright ignored anything he disagreed with for pages, and had the nerve to quote me saying he agree when I jokingly said "Why not have a filter for Buruma" and didn't see a problem with it. No matter what, this is inappropriate behaviour.

johnboy1 · Post by **johnboy1** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:18 pm

Rena Rune wrote:When it's more or less a monopoly, it shoudn't be admins decide everything, it should be an active discussion where everyone's views are recognised.

...why? When something you own monopolizes a certain area, it doesn't suddenly become everyone else's. You simply own a monopolizing property. So, in other words, they still have the right to run the board however they see fit, whether it's the only active board of its kind or not. If people hate it enough, they'll break off and make a property of their own. That's the way things work.

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:21 pm

johnboy1 wrote:
Rena Rune wrote:When it's more or less a monopoly, it shoudn't be admins decide everything, it should be an active discussion where everyone's views are recognised.
...why? When something you own monopolizes a certain area, it doesn't suddenly become everyone else's. You simply own a monopolizing property. So, in other words, they still have the right to run the board however they see fit, whether it's the only active board of its kind or not.

Why?

Why does their right to run a board vastly outweigh the right(whether this right is defined is irrelevant, rights don't "really" exist anyway) of people in general to have a DB forum where their opinions matter?

You have no concept of utility. Either way, logic dictates you need to defend why that right should exist. Yes, they set up the forum so they CAN do it. But it doesn't make it right. And people should be judged for doing things wrong, or there is no accountability if you run a forum.

You need to look at it in terms of positive utility. Being anal admin only offers small positive utility, that can be achieved to the same degree through fairer roots. The utility of the members far outweighs it, heck maybe even my utility score since I really, really believe in what I'm saying, so who has a right to what is irrelevant - rights should only be decided on fairness anyway.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:23 pm

If you don't like what you see, then leave. I do it all the time! I'll look through the forums and say to myself, "Hm. This looks like nothing I want to take part in. I'm gonna leave." Then, I come back about a week or three later and check it again.

Right now just happens to be one of those times where I like being here. That could change as soon as tomorrow for all I know, but I'll just enjoy myself for the time being.

If you're really that torn up over the mass opinions here on things like Dragonball Evolution, FUNimation, VIZ, and names like Tenshinhan and Mr. Satan then you might have a little more fun over at the Dragonball forums on Pojo's and FUNimation's websites. Atari also has an active Dragonball forum and I've heard a lot of horror stories about GameFAQs and their Dragonball forums. So they must obviously be active.

Worst case scenario: go comment on YouTube. There's plenty of DeeBeeZee fans there.

I personally don't frequent any of those places because while this forum pleases me some of the time, those forums please me none of the time. So, go take a stab in those general directions and see if they do anything for your need to talk to other people about Dragonball.

johnboy1 · Post by **johnboy1** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:27 pm

Rena Rune wrote:Why does their right to run a board vastly outweigh the right(whether this right is defined is irrelevant, rights don't "really" exist anyway) of people in general to have a DB forum where their opinions matter?

Property rights vastly outrank freedom of speech when it comes to maintaining a stable society.

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:29 pm

Kendamu wrote:If you don't like what you see, then leave. I do it all the time! I'll look through the forums and say to myself, "Hm. This looks like nothing I want to take part in. I'm gonna leave." Then, I come back about a week or three later and check it again.

Right now just happens to be one of those times where I like being here. That could change as soon as tomorrow for all I know, but I'll just enjoy myself for the time being.

If you're really that torn up over the mass opinions here on things like Dragonball Evolution, FUNimation, VIZ, and names like Tenshinhan and Mr. Satan then you might have a little more fun over at the Dragonball forums on Pojo's and FUNimation's websites. Atari also has an active Dragonball forum and I've heard a lot of horror stories about GameFAQs and their Dragonball forums. So they must obviously be active.

Worst case scenario: go comment on YouTube. There's plenty of DeeBeeZee fans there.

I personally don't frequent any of those places because while this forum pleases me some of the time, those forums please me none of the time. So, go take a stab in those general directions and see if they do anything for your need to talk to other people about Dragonball.

Even the really horrible sites aren't active anymore, and it's an unfair alternative. Certainly none of them ARE as active. In terms of a large, coherent community, this has a monopoly. The Funimation one is passable, but I'm not really a dub fan.

Youtube doesn't really have a proper forum structure. I checked out Pojo, it's only semi active at best. 4 threads max being replied to a day with very few replies is too little for me. I'm very impatient.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:30 pm

www.myfavoritegames.com seems to have an active forum. I don't post on it.

FUNimation, Atari, IGN, and IMDB all have Dragonball sections.

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:32 pm

johnboy1 wrote:
Rena Rune wrote:Why does their right to run a board vastly outweigh the right(whether this right is defined is irrelevant, rights don't "really" exist anyway) of people in general to have a DB forum where their opinions matter?
Property rights vastly outrank freedom of speech when it comes to maintaining a stable society.

If that was true, there would be a "because". That's how arguments work. For a start, you have to DEFINE property. Can you at least acknowledge this much?

Otherwise I can just say "Dogs grow up better if you feed them chocolate. Fact." and I'd be just as right as someone posting actual reasoning and evidence.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:34 pm

I(blakdragon7 of Funi) called you out on dragging another forum's business on Funi to seek an audience. That is all I must say on this.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:43 pm

Raki wrote:I(blakdragon7 of Funi) called you out on dragging another forum's business on Funi to seek an audience. That is all I must say on this.

Oh. That's who this person is?

Nevermind, then. Rena Rune, I hope you have fun wherever you go. Most people who post here regularly like it here and the rest of us tend to like it often enough and better than everywhere else to keep coming back.

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:51 pm

I(blakdragon7 of Funi) called you out on dragging another forum's business on Funi to seek an audience. That is all I must say on this.

You mean the thread where you consistently ignored everything I said, replying with "I can sum this up as WHINE WHINE WHINE right?",

which I then pointed out No you can't, this is making use of a Strawman, which you ignored and "called me out" on the above.

I then pointed out that 3 other people had already brought up and blasted DaizEx on the first page for various reasons, and it was already the current line of discussion.
When I pointed THIS out, you claimed out posted on

"page 2, not page 1. Lame, very lame.".

Then I sent you an email entitled "Merry Christmas!"

with the content "Lame indeed" and this image -

Either way, the myfavouritegames forums looks pretty decent thanks(apart from the ridiculous power levels thead), I might give it a try.
I'm having trouble finding exactly where on the sites the other DB forums are though.

There are so few other DB forums and they're tough to find, which is one big reason why admins need to be more responsible,
any particular forum out of the 2 or 3 active ones could be the only one they gel with.

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:54 pm

You have got to be kidding me right?

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:55 pm

Believe me, I wish I was.

http://community.funimation.com/fb.aspx?m=96764

Raki · Post by **Raki** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:57 pm

Rena Rune wrote:Believe me, I wish I was.

http://community.funimation.com/fb.aspx?m=96764

I was talking about this thread HERE, not the one on Funi's forum. You have serious issues that extend beyond internet forums.

JAPPO · Post by **JAPPO** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 9:58 pm

I just have to say I'm having a great time following this thread and I hope it isn't locked.

Rena Rune · Post by **Rena Rune** » Mon Dec 22, 2008 10:00 pm

Raki wrote:
Rena Rune wrote:Believe me, I wish I was.

http://community.funimation.com/fb.aspx?m=96764
I was talking about this thread HERE, not the one on Funi's forum. You have serious issues that extend beyond internet forums.

You know, it's kind of insulting that I actually explain myself in detail and you just fling out yet another baseless accusation. Just because I don't think like you do, doesn't mean I have "serious issues".

At least I don't make u flat out ridiculous lies in arguments.

If you can't argue, please don't post in threads that contain arguments. You seem to be of the impression that going with the norm protects you from being wrong. I caught you out on this one, you should just leave it.

You continually skip entire posts yet continually insist yourself in an argument.