DBZ Budokai HD Collection: Official On-Going Thread

[Taku128]

So other games like The Legend of Zelda which are branded as action-adventure games means they don't have any RPG elements because the creator hasn't dictated that in its genre? Everyone knows that the LoZ games have RPG elements because they are clearly seen within the game.

How the hell is Zelda an RPG in any way, outside of Zelda II where you level up stats?

Did you read what I said? I said the LoZ games are action-adventure games with RPG elements. All throughout the series you can get health upgrades, weapon upgrades, potions and you work through dungeons. It may be missing things like experience bars and other things RPG games have but thats why people say it has RPG elements.

Those aren't RPG elements, those are video game elements. Like half of the games on my shelf have at least one of those mechanics in them.

[JeffJarrett]

How the hell is Zelda an RPG in any way, outside of Zelda II where you level up stats?

The Legend of Zelda is one of the first RPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game

The genre was then copied and modified for Dragon Quest, which all other "RPG" of the time, including Final Fantasy, copied. And now a few people think that RPG are only the Dragon Quest-like games

And it's the same for fighting games, the games that belong to this genre are not exclusively the Street Fighter-like games. The Budokai Tenkaichi series are also fighting games, only that they haven't copied their style on the other fighting games.

[Insertclevername]

How the hell is Zelda an RPG in any way, outside of Zelda II where you level up stats?

The Legend of Zelda is one of the first RPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game

The genre was then copied and modified for Dragon Quest, which all other "RPG" of the time, including Final Fantasy, copied.

And now a few people think that RPG are only the Dragon Quest-like games

Didn't pen and paper RPGs predate Zelda?

[goku the krump dancer]

Technically any game is an RPG because you take the role of a character and play as him or her.

[Taku128]

How the hell is Zelda an RPG in any way, outside of Zelda II where you level up stats?

The Legend of Zelda is one of the first RPG: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game

The genre was then copied and modified for Dragon Quest, which all other "RPG" of the time, including Final Fantasy, copied. And now a few people think that RPG are only the Dragon Quest-like games

And it's the same for fighting games, the games that belong to this genre are not exclusively the Street Fighter-like games. The Budokai Tenkaichi series are also fighting games, only that they haven't copied their style on the other fighting games.

Pro-tip: Linking somebody to Wikipedia doesn't help your argument. If I wanted to I could go remove that line right now. In addition, that page actually talks about Zelda II, not the Zelda series in general. Zelda II also came out after the first Dragon Quest game, so it's impossible for Dragon Quest to have "copied" anything from it.

The original Legend of Zelda and all installments after Zelda II do not have any RPG elements in it outside of some vague resemblance. Actual Japanese RPGs like Dragon Quest and Final Fantasy took inspiration from series like Ultima and Wizardry, which in turn were heavily based on Dungeons and Dragons. That's why they're called Role Playing Games even though you play a role in basically every video game ever made, they're heavily based on the mechanics of Pen and Paper Role Playing Games like Dungeons and Dragons.

[Akumaito Beam]

Here, have a great video on the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglKS-Hf ... ure=showob

[SparkyPantsMcGee]

Here, have a great video on the subject.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sglKS-Hf ... ure=showob

Thank you for posting this video. Saved me a lot of typing.

[Hitiro]

Those aren't RPG elements, those are video game elements. Like half of the games on my shelf have at least one of those mechanics in them.

Like what exactly? Are you going to say something like CoD because you get weapon upgrades and such in multiplayer? There are no in-game reasons for you to get those online which would logically make sense, which is why that shouldn't be considered. I don't walk around in real life shooting people and all of a sudden a new gun spawns in front of me which is better than my current one. In LoZ games you walk around and discover the weapons and item upgrades as you journey through the world which help you to solve problems you've come across before that you may have been unequipped to handle. There are actual in-game reasons for discovering new item upgrades, increasing your life, etc. I suggest you read this >article<, as it explains it best. While the Zelda games aren't actual RPG games they do show RPG elements.

[Akumaito Beam]

Megaman X is MY favorite RPG.

[Taku128]

Those aren't RPG elements, those are video game elements. Like half of the games on my shelf have at least one of those mechanics in them.

Like what exactly? Are you going to say something like CoD because you get weapon upgrades and such in multiplayer? There are no in-game reasons for you to get those online which would logically make sense, which is why that shouldn't be considered. I don't walk around in real life shooting people and all of a sudden a new gun spawns in front of me which is better than my current one. In LoZ games you walk around and discover the weapons and item upgrades as you journey through the world which help you to solve problems you've come across before that you may have been unequipped to handle. There are actual in-game reasons for discovering new item upgrades, increasing your life, etc. I suggest you read this >article<, as it explains it best. While the Zelda games aren't actual RPG games they do show RPG elements.

I'd forgotten about the upgrading equipment mechanic in Skyward Sword, but that wasn't in any of the other games. The rest of the things you've mentioned are elements of Fantasy, which the RPG genre is heavily tied to. Those aren't inherent aspects of the genre though, as evidenced by games like Alpha Protocol or Mass Effect. When you strip out the specific fantasy terms and replace them with the concepts they represent (for example, a dungeon is really just a level) they become things that are in a million non-RPG games. Really this all stems from the fact that the term RPG means absolutely nothing within the context of video games, since the only factor that links all of them together is "you level up", and plenty of non-RPG games have you level up. Skyrim and Final Fantasy XIII-2 share almost nothing in common in terms of game mechanics. It's a dumb description, and people should split it off into a few different genres instead of trying to lump everything under one name.

[Super Saiyajin Luffy]

Budokai has depth, but it isn't the cradle of competitiveness. Other DBZ games do it much better, including Super DBZ and Hyper Dimension. Heck, this guy blows them all out the roof: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yXyI-qiP ... ontext-chv

And how does this show depth or competitiveness? Sorry, but providing a video of one character created through Mugen(Arguably the worst thing to provide an example of depth and competitiveness because of the way you can design rules to fit only one character) is not really a show of depth or competitiveness. In fact, it seems like a downright insult to the Budokai franchise to say that one character in a Mugen game does depth and competitiveness better than an actual fleshed out game. It also seems as though you are saying that because these combos "look" particularly good that means that the depth and competitiveness has to be better than a game which combos don't look as nice. A character one guy created in Mugen isn't going to have as near an amount of a character thought up by a team of games designers, has this guy taken into consideration this Goku character compared to others? Has he been balancing it with other characters he has created to make sure the characters have equal opportunities in attack and defence? Depth and competitiveness are much more than a simple demonstration of combos. The only reason I have provided links of combos and the like is to show examples from them and explain around them, for instance, earlier I was on about how Goku's >PKK will force the player into the air slightly in an unfavourable juggle position is you enter >PKK once more. I also said it was possible to juggle from this position if you can cancel quick enough. Both times I provided videos showing what I mean to get my point across better. You have basically just provided a video and said that it trumps the Budokai games in depth and competitiveness without any information on what or how its achieved this.

Well, this project isn't finished yet. The creator plans to release a DBZ Mugen (if I'm right) and his he is working on Vegeta right now. And looking his 2 current characters, they are looking unique and balanced, not some broken shit. If his project is finished, I will say that this particular Mugen can be compared to Dimps DBZ games. I think he is also working on Freeza now.
I know that Mugen used to have a history of brokeness, but it's no reason to play down this particular character and Mugen project.

Regarding the Budokai argument, I won't contribute something to it, cause I have a deja-vu from somewhere else.

[MCDaveG]

That Mugen looks like hell overall and is damn old concept, I can't imagine it being better than Budokai. I saw countless DBZ games on Mugen which played the same......

Competitivness and I don't know what, I actually don't played or know any fighting game like this. I don't get how people want to make Dragon Ball a fighting game franchise,
it's just merchandise to accompany the series and we are lucky as hell that we got so many installments of it. Dragon Ball will never reach the status like Street Fighter, Tekken or even Guilty Gear, Mortal Kombat, Soul Calibur etc etc etc etc......
And also, it would be kinda boring to have DBZ game playing same like other fighters.

[Hitiro]

I'd forgotten about the upgrading equipment mechanic in Skyward Sword, but that wasn't in any of the other games. The rest of the things you've mentioned are elements of Fantasy, which the RPG genre is heavily tied to. Those aren't inherent aspects of the genre though, as evidenced by games like Alpha Protocol or Mass Effect. When you strip out the specific fantasy terms and replace them with the concepts they represent (for example, a dungeon is really just a level) they become things that are in a million non-RPG games. Really this all stems from the fact that the term RPG means absolutely nothing within the context of video games, since the only factor that links all of them together is "you level up", and plenty of non-RPG games have you level up. Skyrim and Final Fantasy XIII-2 share almost nothing in common in terms of game mechanics. It's a dumb description, and people should split it off into a few different genres instead of trying to lump everything under one name.

Incorrect, I don't see a million games which lack any RPG elements having in-game reasons for upgrades and the like. Name me a few examples of where a character enters a dungeon(Or level if you want) to find a lost item which will help them in their quest to defeat their enemy at the end. Link is the chosen person to wield the Master Sword which is explained in nearly every game and why he needs the Master Sword. Does Alpha Protocol do this? Where is the plot and journey to find the equipment needed to do certain things in that game? And there may indeed be a few non-RPG games that show these elements. But that just means they are games of a particular genre which have RPG elements, that doesn't mean to say they are RPG games but they adopt the elements and mechanics associated with the RPG genre to achieve what they are aiming for. A prime example of a new game doing this is Darksiders II, which is a Hack and Slash, Action-adventure game. Before you start saying that Darksiders II doesn't have RPG elements I would ask you to read an >interview< with one of the games companies employee's which says its got RPG elements, more so than the first game anyway.

[VegettoEX]

You folks are -- rudely toward each other, might I add -- straying a bit off the appropriate path for this topic.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

Can't wait for this game, I loved B3 as a kid and the story mode actually had replay value. Love it!

[NECPS]

Let us hear if this will get any surprises..
I don't think so though.

I would love to buy but...
I still have mine. And it is quite a new game,
that one with Piccolo Daimao and Trunks with armor .

[Taku128]

It's 2012 bud, you can fit more than sixty characters on one
line.

[NECPS]

Can your fingers breathe though ?

[Pokewhiz7]

It's 2012 bud, you can fit more than sixty characters on one
line.

It's a poem! You're supposed to sing it!

[Saiga]

Quick question... the HD collection features list says "Face off with up to 23 mighty DBZ warriors!" (Budokai 1) and "More than 40 characters from DBZ, DBZ movies & Dragon Ball GT" (Budokai 3) but... I made a table of all the characters in the Budokai/Shin Budokai/Infinite world series and Budokai 1 has only 21 characters and Budokai 3 has 40 counting fusions as separate characters. So have I made a mistake or have they?