Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Doctor.]

There is no defined formula for fusion. Well, there is, the SEG flat-out says that Potara is multiplication and it implies that normal fusion is just addition, but if you wish to disregard it, then there's no formula at all. Toriyama wasn't drawing the manga with a calculator at hand, he made Gotenks as strong as he wanted him to.

[Blackstripe]

So, I decided to redo my power levels from before, a bit. Tell me what you think.

Dragon Ball Z

Cell Saga

Return of Frieza
Son Gohan – 1,000,000
Kuririn – 85,000
Yamucha – 8,200
Tenshinhan – 32,000
Vegeta – 2,800,000
Piccolo – 2,400,000
Planet Trade Empire soldiers – ~1,000
Cyborg Frieza – 40,500,000
(Unseen full power) – 135,000,000
Trunks – 3,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 150,000,000
King Cold – 45,000,000
(Unseen third form) – 75,000,000
(Unseen final form) – 145,000,000
Son Gokuu – 3,100,000
(Super Saiyan) – 155,000,000

Now, King Cold is entirely speculation on my part. I will not deny it. It does however make sense from a character standpoint. He is King Cold. Does Frieza really seem like the type to defer such a title to someone weaker than him? Did Cold seem like the type to restore (and strengthen!) someone more powerful than himself when he was trying to bargain with Trunks?

Of course, I don’t think he’s as ludicrously powerful as Dragonball Multiverese makes him. I think he has to still be weaker than Super Saiyan Trunks, enough so that he would feel it probably wasn’t worth even trying to transform.

In Fukkatsu no F, Frieza recounted his father instructing him to never lay his hands on Beerus or Majin Buu, so he ¬did have authority over him.

Arrival of the Cyborgs
Kuririn – 145,000
Yamucha – 22,500
Yajirobe – 650
Tenshinhan – 115,000
Son Gohan – 3,250,000
Son Gokuu – 3,400,000
(Super Saiyan) – 170,000,000
(Sick) – 35,000,000
#19 – 20,000,000
(Goku’s energy absorbed) – 50,000,000
(Vegeta’s energy absorbed) – 110,000,000
(Disarmed) – 45,000,000 and dropping.
#20 – 25,000,000
(Vegeta and Piccolo’s energy absorbed) – 75,000,000
Vegeta – 3,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 175,000,000
(Energy drained) – 115,000,000
Piccolo – 100,000,000
(without weights) – 135,000,000
Trunks – 3,300,000
(Super Saiyan) – 165,000,000
#18 – 180,000,000

An Invader from the Future
Nameless Namekian – 165,000,000
(without weights) – 190,000,000
(tired) 182,000,000
#17 – 190,000,000
Imperfect Cell – 150,000,000
(humans absorbed) – 210,000,000
#16 – 210,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell – 255,000,000
(Full power) – 280,000,000
Shin Kikoho – 150,000,000
Vegeta – 6,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 260,000,000
(Grade 2) – 325,000,000 (My Grade 2 multiplier is 1.25, rather than 1.5)
Trunks – 6,300,000
(Super Saiyan) 250,000,000
(Grade 2) – 312,500,000
(Grade 3) – 375,000,000 (Grade 3 is 1.5 of Super Saiyan here, not of Grade 2)
Perfect Cell – 320,000,000
(Warm up/vs Trunks) – 350,000,000
(Bulked up) – 525,000,000
Son Gokuu - (Half Power Super Saiyan) – 405,000,000

Cell Games

Mr. Satan – 16.5 (Do keep in mind my start of Dragon Ball Gokuu is about 25, since I don’t follow the Daiz. I figure he should at least be on the level of some of the better 21st Tournament Preliminary fighters. He did apparently win his renown fairly, after all.)
Vegeta – 8,200,000
(Super Saiyan) – 410,000,000
Trunks – 8,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 400,000,000
Piccolo – 300,000,000
Cell Jr.’s – 425,000,000
Son Gokuu (unseen base) – 16,200,000
(Super Saiyan) – 810,000,000
(Warp Kamehameha) – 950,000,000
(Exhausted) – 285,000,000
Perfect Cell – 825,000,000
(Powered up against Gohan) – 875,000,000
(Full Power) – 1,100,000,000
(Super Perfect) – 1,750,000,000
Son Gohan – 17,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 850,000,000
(Unseen Angry Super Saiyan) – 900,000,000
(Angry Super Saiyan 2) – 1,800,000,000
(Injured Super Saiyan 2) – 1,350,000,000
(Father-Son Kamehameha) – 2,160,000,000

Buu Saga

7 Years of Peace
Son Gohan – 8,400,000
(Super Saiyan) – 420,000,000
Vegeta – 18,200,000
(Super Saiyan) – 920,000,000
Son Goten – 3,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 150,000,000
Trunks – 3,100,000
(Super Saiyan) – 155,000,000
Videl – 18

25th Tenkaichi Budokai – Junior Division
Ikose – 5.5
Son Goten – 3,400,000
(Super Saiyan) 170,000,000
Idasa – 8
Trunks – 3,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 175,000,000
Mr. Satan - 16.5

Adult Division
Kuririn – 135,000
Pintar – 12
Yamucha – 10,500
Piccolo – 350,000,000
(Unseen without weights) – 375,000,000
East Kaioshin – 850,000,000
Videl – 20
Spopovich – 25
Yamu – 28
Son Gohan – 16,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 825,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 1,650,000,000
Kibito – 100,000,000
#18 – 180,000,000
Jewel – 14
Killa – 12.5

Madoshi Babidi
Babidi – 2.5
Pui Pui - 10,500,000 (People are a little too harsh with Pui Pui. If you never trained in heavier gravity, it would still throw you off your game. He didn’t expect it to harm Vegeta or anything.)
Yakon – 900,000,000
Son Gokuu – 20,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 2,000,000,000
Dabura – 1,625,000,000
Majin Vegeta (Super Saiyan 2) – 2,000,000,000

The Playful Destroyer
Majin Buu – 1,250,000,000
(vs Dabura/Gohan/Kaioshin) – 2,000,000,000
(vs Vegeta) – 3,250,000,000
(vs Gokuu) – 4,500,000,000
(Full Power/Splitting) – 5,000,000,000
(Grey Buu) – 2,900,000,000
(Good Buu) – 2,100,000,000
Son Gokuu – 5,000,000,000 (Suppressed Super Saiyan 3)
Son Gohan (Z Sword Training) – 22,000,000
Gotenks – 36,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,825,000,000
Van Zant – 5
Butler - 4

Rise of the Super Majin
Son Goten (post-training) – 3,950,000 (Goten narrowed the gap a bit, since they were working on equalizing their power)
Trunks (post-training) – 4,000,000
Gotenks – 40,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 16,000,000,000
Super Buu – 15,500,000,000
(With Piccolo+Gotenks) – 31,875,000,000
(With Piccolo) – 15,875,000,000
(With Gohan) – 35,375,000,000
(Buff) – 16,000,000,000
Son Gohan (Ultimate) - 19,500,000,000
Tenshinhan – 130,000
Vegetto: 360,000,000,000
(Super Vegito) – 20,000,000,000,000
(Unseen Super Saiyan 2) – 40,000,000,000,000
(Unseen Super Saiyan 3) – 160,000,000,000,000 (Listing these is important for the Battle of Gods section)

Pint Sized Destroyer
Son Gokuu (Super Saiyan 3) – 8,000,000,000
(Hypothetical energy he could gather in dead body) – 16,500,000,000 (This isn’t a level he can fight at; it’s something I would compare to his Kamehameha against Raditz. His power was 416, but he could gather over 900 by concentrating it. It’s exactly the same here, he even says he’s gathering up his power for a big blast to wipe Buu out.)
Pure Buu – 8,000,000,000
(vs Mr. Satan) – 666
(vs Vegeta) – 4,200,000,000
(vs Genki Dama) – 10,500,000,000 (Looking back on Kid Buu’s fight with Gokuu, he never seemed particularly concerned or serious. And he can be both of those, as shown when he saw the Genki Dama and started going for the kill. He was also perfectly capable of holding back, as shown in his fight with Satan. No, it wasn’t a gag fight. It had plot significance. It leads to the revival of…)
Mr. Buu – 4,500,000,000 (Earlier, I put Good Buu at 2,100,000,000. This isn’t him. This is Mr. Buu. When Majin Buu split between his good and evil halves, both of them still had a bit of Kaioshin in them. Neither was ‘Pure’. If you will recall, Super Buu states that he gave “that guy” special treatment…and when he was removed, he took all traces of the Kaioshins with him: both Dai Kaioshin AND South Kaioshin. That’s why you get Pure Buu instead of Grey Buu again. Because of how Super Buu set the Kaioshins up inside of him, he’s able to use their full power to compensate for his lost Majin power. He’s more or less equal to Fat Buu.)
Genki Dama – 50,000,000,000+ (5 x 6.5 billion + the kids, Piccolo, Kuririn, Yamucha and Gohan. Would have killed any Majin.)

Battle of Gods

Kuririn – 125,000
Yamucha – 5,100
Tenshinhan – 175,000
Piccolo – 425,000,000
Son Goten – 4,250,000
Trunks – 4,250,000
Pilaf – 2
Mai – 2.5
Shu – 2
Mr. Satan – 16
#18 – 180,000,000
Son Gohan – 19,500,000,000
Gotenks – 41,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,075,000,000
Vegeta – 25,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,250,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 2,500,000,000
(Rage boost) – 120,000,000,000,000
(Ki blast) - 240,000,000,000,000
Beerus – 100,000,000,000,000 (2.5% power)
(10% power) - 400,000,000,000,000
(70% power) – 2,800,000,000,000,000
(100%) – 4,000,000,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 28,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,400,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 2,800,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 11,200,000,000
(Super Saiyan God) – 2,400,000,000,000,000 (A level Gokuu could NEVER reach on his own)
(Base SSG) – 2,000,000,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan while still a Super Saiyan God, which is not the same as Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan…ow, my brain) – 2,200,000,000,000,000
Whis – 6,000,000,000,000,000

The above power levels are based upon Akira Toriyama saying that if SSG Goku was a 6, then Beerus was a 10 and Whis was a 15.

Revival of F

Sorbet – 1,000
Tagoma - 22,500
Shisami – 23,800
(post-training) – 475,000,000
Pilaf – 1.8
Mai – 2.5
Shu – 2.2
Planet Trade Empire Soldiers – ~500 (A motley crew)
Elite Mercenaries - ~5,000
Kuririn – 150,000 (back into shape for his police work)
Tenshinhan – 195,500 (performs better than Kuririn, and not just due to his techniques. His stamina and performance genuinely seem better here, and nothing contradicts post-Buu Tien being stronger anyhow.)
Roshi – 1,500 (The old man was really feeling like it)
(buff) – 6,250
Chiaotzu (unseen) – 800
Yamucha (unseen) – 4,800
Piccolo – 425,000,000
(w/o weights) – 475,000,000
Gohan – 100,000,000 (The gains from his ultimate form haven’t completely worn off yet)
(Super Saiyan) – 5,000,000,000
Jaco – 2,250 (Just because he was weaker than an average Saiyan 40-something years ago doesn’t mean he still is)
Freeza – 350,000 (notes he has “lost his touch”, which I interpret to mean his body is somewhat weakened. Fair, since he was just put back together after decades in hell. Unless you’re a Saiyan, that probably leaves you a bit weary)
(Hypothesized gains from training) – 1,300,000 (holds pinky to mouth)
(Actual First Form gains) – 1,300,000,000,000
(True form) – 240,000,000,000,000
(Golden Oscar Freeza) – 3,200,000,000,000,000
(Tired) – 2,200,000,000,000,000
(Tired True Form) – 120,000,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 300,000,000,000,000 (Gokuu’s base in RoF is not the same as his base state during his fight with Beerus, in my opinion. He was still technically a SSG there, shown when he regained the form. He no longer has access to it directly, although his base state is clearly much, much higher than it ever was before.)
(Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan) – 3,000,000,000,000,000 (Using a 10x multiplier for SSGSS)
Vegeta – 280,000,000,000,000
(SSGSS) – 2,800,000,000,000,000

And as a bonus, some referential power levels from GT!

Son Gokuu – 4,500,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 225,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 450,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 1,800,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 4) – 18,000,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 4 far past his lmits) – 72,000,000,000,000
(Hypothetical SSJ4 with Dragon Balls) – 550,000,000,000,000 (No reason to think it would make him that much stronger than it did Syn Shenron)
Revived Perfect Cell – 3,250,000,000
Revived Freeza – 2,450,000,000
Super 17 – 38,000,000,000,000
Syn Shenron – 45,000,000,000,000
Omega Shenron – 350,000,000,000,000
Gogeta – 1,440,000,000,000,000

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed reading this! Give me you love, hate and advice!

[LightBing]

Why do people think the non-gods are so faraway?Not even being 10% of Beerus? Beerus doesn't need that big of a gap to manhandle Goku. And he said that " even if he fused with Vegeta they might lose". Is this a case of power inflation? From the know gaps in the manga, anything above 25% gap is enough for "finger-flicking". Even if Goku was a 3 to his SSJG 6, that's still a World he could never reach; it's double of it!

[Saiga]

I wonder: is it possible to make Fusion as purely additive work with the scenes of the manga. Like my previous question, this would need to ignore statements that imply large gaps between Gotenks and Goku.

Something that just matches the following: Goten vs Gohan, Goten compared to Gohan compared to Goku, SS3 Goku's fear of Evil Boo, Gotenks vs Evil Boo.

But the best I can do to fit that would be Gotenks being a 12 to Goku's 8 (following the Daizenshuu literally on Goten being exactly equal to Gohan, at least post-RoSaT at 6) which is probably putting Goten just a bit too high.

[Blackstripe]

Why do people think the non-gods are so faraway?Not even being 10% of Beerus? Beerus doesn't need that big of a gap to manhandle Goku. And he said that " even if he fused with Vegeta they might lose". Is this a case of power inflation? From the know gaps in the manga, anything above 25% gap is enough for "finger-flicking". Even if Goku was a 3 to his SSJG 6, that's still a World he could never reach; it's double of it!

It's a world he could never reach merely by training. Gokuu could have definitely doubled his power with enough time. That's certainly achievable. In fact, I think he had more or less achieved it by the original year 10 ending of Z (before BoG was a thing).

This is different. This is a level so astronomically high that he could never grasp it, no matter what he did.

And I know of the 25% power gap thing. I used it quite extensively in the rest of my PL list, if you didn't notice.

[ahill1]

Return of Freeza
Son Gohan – 1,000,000
Kuririn – 85,000
Yamucha – 8,200
Tenshinhan – 32,000
Vegeta – 2,800,000
Piccolo – 2,400,000
Planet Trade Empire soldiers – ~1,000
Cyborg Freeza – 40,500,000
(Unseen full power) – 135,000,000
Trunks – 3,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 150,000,000
King Cold – 45,000,000
(Unseen third form) – 75,000,000
(Unseen final form) – 145,000,000
Son Gokuu – 3,100,000
(Super Saiyan) – 155,000,000

Kuririn only 85,000? He was considered helpful against Freeza(530,000) - place him at least 150,000.

Why Ten and Yamcha are so low? Right, they did not have the potential unlocked, but give a little credit to their training.

Cyborg Freeza must be at least equal to SSJ Goku(namek). He said that perhaps he could go alone - I advise you put him at least at 155,000,000.

The gap between Trunks and Mecha Freeza is way too small - Truks suggests he could take Freeza in seconds - I guess it's implied at least 1,33x gap.

Son Goku > Son Goku(trunks estimation) > Trunks - so you have the gap between then way too small.

Kuririn – 145,000
Yamucha – 22,500
Yajirobe – 650
Tenshinhan – 115,000
Son Gohan – 3,250,000
Son Gokuu – 3,400,000
(Super Saiyan) – 170,000,000

Kuririn was considered helpful aginst Freeza and trained his ass for 3 years and even so is only 145,000? Come on man.

Yamcha is ridiculously low; he trained for 3 years man; give more credit for the humans.

Goku was 155 to 170? He trained with Gohan and Piccolo for 3 years - give a greater increase.

(Super Saiyan) – 170,000,000
(Sick) – 35,000,000

Goku SSJ Sick is stronger than Goku SSJ(trunks saga) - Look at the reaction of Ten.

#19 – 20,000,000

19 is too low; if he was so weak the Z warriors would quickly notice that they were not the real androids; the same goes for 20.

Piccolo – 100,000,000
(without weights) – 135,000,000

Piccolo was confident against androids far stronger than Trunks SSJ and is only Mecha Freeza level? No way! place him stronger than Goku SSJ(yardrat saga).

#18 – 180,000,000

Too small the gap between 18 and Vegeta; since 18 get seriously she treated Vegeta as a child.

Imperfect Cell – 150,000,000

Imperfect Cell must be stronger than Vegeta SSJ; Vegeta himself admitted to have been surpassed.

17 – 190,000,000
Imperfect Cell – 150,000,000
(humans absorbed) – 210,000,000

Seriously you have only a 10% gap between 17 and Imperfect Cell/16??? The Piccolo amplified attack didn't do crap... The fight suggests at least 1.5x gap.

16 – 210,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell – 240,000,000

Semi Perfect Cell destroyed 16 instantly and you have 16 being 87.5% of Semi Cell? no way.


Seriously you have MSSJ Goku below 1 billion? this is ridiculous.



There are many things on your list that need urgent repair man; sorry.

[LightBing]

Why do people think the non-gods are so faraway?Not even being 10% of Beerus? Beerus doesn't need that big of a gap to manhandle Goku. And he said that " even if he fused with Vegeta they might lose". Is this a case of power inflation? From the know gaps in the manga, anything above 25% gap is enough for "finger-flicking". Even if Goku was a 3 to his SSJG 6, that's still a World he could never reach; it's double of it!

It's a world he could never reach merely by training. Gokuu could have definitely doubled his power with enough time. That's certainly achievable. In fact, I think he had more or less achieved it by the original year 10 ending of Z (before BoG was a thing).

This is different. This is a level so astronomically high that he could never grasp it, no matter what he did.

And I know of the 25% power gap thing. I used it quite extensively in the rest of my PL list, if you didn't notice.

No need to be rude, I didn't read your list when I posted nor was the 25% gap directed to anyone specifically. I just gave it to justify reducing power inflation. Unless he adds more SSJ transformations, how would he double his power? In the 7 years training in the Otherworld he certainly didn't got much of an increase if you discount SSJ2 an SSJ3. And the number of 3 I gave is just an example, because it's even less and enough to justify his phrase that, he could never reach it by training.

[Blackstripe]

Kuririn only 85,000? He was considered helpful against Freeza(530,000) - place him at least 150,000.

Why Ten and Yamcha are so low? Right, they did not have the potential unlocked, but give a little credit to their training.

Cyborg Freeza must be at least equal to SSJ Goku(namek). He said that perhaps he could go alone - I advise you put him at least at 155,000,000.

The gap between Trunks and Mecha Freeza is way too small - Truks suggests he could take Freeza in seconds - I guess it's implied at least 1,33x gap.

Son Goku > Son Goku(trunks estimation) > Trunks - so you have the gap between then way too small.

He was useful because of his techniques. Vegeta never thought he could last against Freeza one on one for even a second, but he knew of Kuririn's techniques, particularly his kienzan. For the record, Kuririn didn't think he could be useful and had to get a pep talk from Vegeta of all people.

Tien and Yamucha's gains are still much higher than Gokuu's were when he trained with King Kai.

As for Cyborg Freeza, he doesn't know how strong SSJ Gokuu really was on Namek. Why? Because Gokuu never fought him seriously. He was always holding back. From what he saw, 135 mil SHOULD be enough.

Freeza never got the chance to power up to full power against Trunks, so Trunks easily beat him. Hence "unseen" full power.

I see no reason to think Gokuu needs to be hugely above Trunks. Trunks seems bad at estimating people's power (both Mirai and Chibi versions). Besides, Future Gohan said he never caught up to his father's power on Namek, so Trunks being at that level makes sense.

Kuririn was considered helpful aginst Freeza and trained his ass for 3 years and even so is only 145,000? Come on man.

Yamcha is ridiculously low; he trained for 3 years man; give more credit for the humans.

Goku was 155 to 170? He trained with Gohan and Piccolo for 3 years - give a greater increase.

Kuririn didn't do any kind of special training. Why should he see massive gains?

Gokuu trained with Piccolo and Gohan...who were much weaker than him. Of course he didn't receive much of a benefit. They, on the other hand, did.

Goku SSJ Sick is stronger than Goku SSJ(trunks saga) - Look at the reaction of Ten.

That wasn't the "sick" I was referring to. I was referring to when he started hunching over, breathing hard during his fight with 19, not his power when he first started the fight.

19 is too low; if he was so weak the Z warriors would quickly notice that they were not the real androids; the same goes for 20.

They DID think it was odd that they were so weak...that was kind of the theme of those fights. The only time they thought they understood how they might have killed them was when they saw their energy absorption ability. And keep in mind: 20,000,000 is much higher than a non-Super Saiyan Vegeta or a Piccolo that didn't train with Gokuu for three years, so it's plausible that with Gokuu dead, they could've killed everyone.

Piccolo was confident against androids far stronger than Trunks SSJ and is only Mecha Freeza level? No way! place him stronger than Goku SSJ(yardrat saga).

Uh...yeah, he was confident against Gero, who is much weaker than him in my list. Don't see the problem here. You saw his Kami merged power level, right?

Too small the gap between 18 and Vegeta; since 18 get seriously she treated Vegeta as a child.

She only started toying with him when he became tired.

Imperfect Cell must be stronger than Vegeta SSJ; Vegeta himself admitted to have been surpassed.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about Piccolo, there, though it's been a while since I read that part of the Manga.

Seriously you have only a 10% gap between 17 and Imperfect Cell/16??? The Piccolo amplified attack didn't do crap... The fight suggests at least 1.5x gap.

No, I actually have like a 15 or so percent gap between them for that scene (that's why I listed Piccolo as tired).

Semi Perfect Cell destroyed 16 instantly and you have 16 being 87.5% of Semi Cell? no way.

That one might be a little too small, I might up it to 250 or even 260.

Seriously you have MSSJ Goku below 1 billion? this is ridiculous.

...Why? It's all relative.

There are many things on your list that need urgent repair man; sorry.

Thank you for giving a detailed reply.

No need to be rude, I didn't read your list when I posted nor was the 25% gap directed to anyone specifically. I just gave it to justify reducing power inflation. Unless he adds more SSJ transformations, how would he double his power? In the 7 years training in the Otherworld he certainly didn't got much of an increase if you discount SSJ2 an SSJ3. And the number of 3 I gave is just an example, because it's even less and enough to justify his phrase that, he could never reach it by training.

Huh? I wasn't trying to be rude at all. Sorry if it came across that way.

[ekrolo2]

Why do people think the non-gods are so faraway?Not even being 10% of Beerus? Beerus doesn't need that big of a gap to manhandle Goku. And he said that " even if he fused with Vegeta they might lose". Is this a case of power inflation? From the know gaps in the manga, anything above 25% gap is enough for "finger-flicking". Even if Goku was a 3 to his SSJG 6, that's still a World he could never reach; it's double of it!

If you've seen the overpower thread, in general, people usually have a tendency to go to extremes when it comes to power statements. Like if Goku said fusion, as in the fusion dance if Herms' Super translation is correct which I believe it is, everyone's gonna assume Beerus can man handle Super Saiyan 3 Gogeta no problem with 0.0000000000000000000000000001% of his power. It's especially weird since Freeza, a non-God was able to kick Goku's ass a fair bit as Bluper Saiyan with no God Ki at all. Thus proving that mortals can in-fact reach God levels of power, at least the very exceptional ones.

[Blackstripe]

Why do people think the non-gods are so faraway?Not even being 10% of Beerus? Beerus doesn't need that big of a gap to manhandle Goku. And he said that " even if he fused with Vegeta they might lose". Is this a case of power inflation? From the know gaps in the manga, anything above 25% gap is enough for "finger-flicking". Even if Goku was a 3 to his SSJG 6, that's still a World he could never reach; it's double of it!

If you've seen the overpower thread, in general, people usually have a tendency to go to extremes when it comes to power statements. Like if Goku said fusion, as in the fusion dance if Herms' Super translation is correct which I believe it is, everyone's gonna assume Beerus can man handle Super Saiyan 3 Gogeta no problem with 0.0000000000000000000000000001% of his power. It's especially weird since Freeza, a non-God was able to kick Goku's ass a fair bit as Bluper Saiyan with no God Ki at all. Thus proving that mortals can in-fact reach God levels of power, at least the very exceptional ones.

My Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta would require about 35% of Beerus' power on my list, so it's not that bad there. I agree that making SSJ4 Gogeta 0.1~ percent of Beerus is way too harsh. And Freeza wouldn't have been a match for SSGSS Gokuu if he didn't unlock a super transformation of his own. Freeza probably has the highest potential of any natural born character in the series, outside of Beerus and Whis.

And maybe Goku and Vegeta, now that they're Gods.

[Noah]

So, I decided to redo my power levels from before, a bit. Tell me what you think.

Spoiler:

Dragon Ball Z

Cell Saga

Return of Freeza
Son Gohan – 1,000,000
Kuririn – 85,000
Yamucha – 8,200
Tenshinhan – 32,000
Vegeta – 2,800,000
Piccolo – 2,400,000
Planet Trade Empire soldiers – ~1,000
Cyborg Freeza – 40,500,000
(Unseen full power) – 135,000,000
Trunks – 3,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 150,000,000
King Cold – 45,000,000
(Unseen third form) – 75,000,000
(Unseen final form) – 145,000,000
Son Gokuu – 3,100,000
(Super Saiyan) – 155,000,000

Now, King Cold is entirely speculation on my part. I will not deny it. It does however make sense from a character standpoint. He is King Cold. Does Freeza really seem like the type to defer such a title to someone weaker than him? Did Cold seem like the type to restore (and strengthen!) someone more powerful than himself when he was trying to bargain with Trunks?

Of course, I don’t think he’s as ludicrously powerful as Dragonball Multiverese makes him. I think he has to still be weaker than Super Saiyan Trunks, enough so that he would feel it probably wasn’t worth even trying to transform.

In Fukkatsu no F, Freeza recounted his father instructing him to never lay his hands on Beerus or Majin Buu, so he ¬did have authority over him.

Arrival of the Cyborgs
Kuririn – 145,000
Yamucha – 22,500
Yajirobe – 650
Tenshinhan – 115,000
Son Gohan – 3,250,000
Son Gokuu – 3,400,000
(Super Saiyan) – 170,000,000
(Sick) – 35,000,000
#19 – 20,000,000
(Goku’s energy absorbed) – 50,000,000
(Vegeta’s energy absorbed) – 110,000,000
(Disarmed) – 45,000,000 and dropping.
#20 – 25,000,000
(Vegeta and Piccolo’s energy absorbed) – 75,000,000
Vegeta – 3,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 175,000,000
(Energy drained) – 115,000,000
Piccolo – 100,000,000
(without weights) – 135,000,000
Trunks – 3,300,000
(Super Saiyan) – 165,000,000
#18 – 180,000,000

An Invader from the Future
Nameless Namekian – 165,000,000
(without weights) – 190,000,000
(tired) 182,000,000
#17 – 190,000,000
Imperfect Cell – 150,000,000
(humans absorbed) – 210,000,000
#16 – 210,000,000
Semi-Perfect Cell – 255,000,000
(Full power) – 280,000,000
Shin Kikoho – 150,000,000
Vegeta – 6,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 260,000,000
(Grade 2) – 325,000,000 (My Grade 2 multiplier is 1.25, rather than 1.5)
Trunks – 6,300,000
(Super Saiyan) 250,000,000
(Grade 2) – 312,500,000
(Grade 3) – 375,000,000 (Grade 3 is 1.5 of Super Saiyan here, not of Grade 2)
Perfect Cell – 320,000,000
(Warm up/vs Trunks) – 350,000,000
(Bulked up) – 525,000,000
Son Gokuu - (Half Power Super Saiyan) – 405,000,000

Cell Games

Mr. Satan – 16.5 (Do keep in mind my start of Dragon Ball Gokuu is about 25, since I don’t follow the Daiz. I figure he should at least be on the level of some of the better 21st Tournament Preliminary fighters. He did apparently win his renown fairly, after all.)
Vegeta – 8,200,000
(Super Saiyan) – 410,000,000
Trunks – 8,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 400,000,000
Piccolo – 300,000,000
Cell Jr.’s – 425,000,000
Son Gokuu (unseen base) – 16,200,000
(Super Saiyan) – 810,000,000
(Warp Kamehameha) – 950,000,000
(Exhausted) – 285,000,000
Perfect Cell – 825,000,000
(Powered up against Gohan) – 875,000,000
(Full Power) – 1,100,000,000
(Super Perfect) – 1,750,000,000
Son Gohan – 17,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 850,000,000
(Unseen Angry Super Saiyan) – 900,000,000
(Angry Super Saiyan 2) – 1,800,000,000
(Injured Super Saiyan 2) – 1,350,000,000
(Father-Son Kamehameha) – 2,160,000,000

Buu Saga

7 Years of Peace
Son Gohan – 8,200,000
(Super Saiyan) – 420,000,000
Vegeta – 18,200,000
(Super Saiyan) – 920,000,000
Son Goten – 3,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 150,000,000
Trunks – 3,100,000
(Super Saiyan) – 155,000,000
Videl – 18

25th Tenkaichi Budokai – Junior Division
Ikose – 5.5
Son Goten – 3,400,000
(Super Saiyan) 170,000,000
Idasa – 8
Trunks – 3,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 175,000,000
Mr. Satan - 16.5

Adult Division
Kuririn – 135,000
Pintar – 12
Yamucha – 10,500
Piccolo – 350,000,000
(Unseen without weights) – 375,000,000
East Kaioshin – 850,000,000
Videl – 20
Spopovich – 25
Yamu – 28
Son Gohan – 16,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 825,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 1,650,000,000
Kibito – 100,000,000
#18 – 180,000,000
Jewel – 14
Killa – 12.5

Madoshi Babidi
Babidi – 2.5
Pui Pui - 10,500,000 (People are a little too harsh with Pui Pui. If you never trained in heavier gravity, it would still throw you off your game. He didn’t expect it to harm Vegeta or anything.)
Yakon – 900,000,000
Son Gokuu – 20,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 2,000,000,000
Dabura – 1,625,000,000
Majin Vegeta (Super Saiyan 2) – 2,000,000,000

The Playful Destroyer
Majin Buu – 1,250,000,000
(vs Dabura/Gohan/Kaioshin) – 2,000,000,000
(vs Vegeta) – 3,250,000,000
(vs Gokuu) – 4,500,000,000
(Full Power/Splitting) – 5,000,000,000
(Grey Buu) – 2,900,000,000
(Good Buu) – 2,100,000,000
Son Gokuu – 5,000,000,000 (Suppressed Super Saiyan 3)
Son Gohan (Z Sword Training) – 22,000,000
Gotenks – 36,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,825,000,000
Van Zant – 5
Butler - 4

Rise of the Super Majin
Son Goten (post-training) – 3,950,000 (Goten narrowed the gap a bit, since they were working on equalizing their power)
Trunks (post-training) – 4,000,000
Gotenks – 40,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 16,000,000,000
Super Buu – 15,500,000,000
(With Piccolo+Gotenks) – 31,875,000,000
(With Piccolo) – 15,875,000,000
(With Gohan) – 35,375,000,000
(Buff) – 16,000,000,000
Son Gohan (Ultimate) - 19,500,000,000
Tenshinhan – 130,000
Vegetto: 360,000,000,000
(Super Vegito) – 20,000,000,000,000
(Unseen Super Saiyan 2) – 40,000,000,000,000
(Unseen Super Saiyan 3) – 160,000,000,000,000 (Listing these is important for the Battle of Gods section)

Pint Sized Destroyer
Son Gokuu (Super Saiyan 3) – 8,000,000,000
(Hypothetical energy he could gather in dead body) – 16,500,000,000 (This isn’t a level he can fight at; it’s something I would compare to his Kamehameha against Raditz. His power was 416, but he could gather over 900 by concentrating it. It’s exactly the same here, he even says he’s gathering up his power for a big blast to wipe Buu out.)
Pure Buu – 8,000,000,000
(vs Mr. Satan) – 666
(vs Vegeta) – 4,200,000,000
(vs Genki Dama) – 10,500,000,000 (Looking back on Kid Buu’s fight with Gokuu, he never seemed particularly concerned or serious. And he can be both of those, as shown when he saw the Genki Dama and started going for the kill. He was also perfectly capable of holding back, as shown in his fight with Satan. No, it wasn’t a gag fight. It had plot significance. It leads to the revival of…)
Mr. Buu – 4,500,000,000 (Earlier, I put Good Buu at 2,100,000,000. This isn’t him. This is Mr. Buu. When Majin Buu split between his good and evil halves, both of them still had a bit of Kaioshin in them. Neither was ‘Pure’. If you will recall, Super Buu states that he gave “that guy” special treatment…and when he was removed, he took all traces of the Kaioshins with him: both Dai Kaioshin AND South Kaioshin. That’s why you get Pure Buu instead of Grey Buu again. Because of how Super Buu set the Kaioshins up inside of him, he’s able to use their full power to compensate for his lost Majin power. He’s more or less equal to Fat Buu.)
Genki Dama – 50,000,000,000+ (5 x 6.5 billion + the kids, Piccolo, Kuririn, Yamucha and Gohan. Would have killed any Majin.)

Battle of Gods

Kuririn – 125,000
Yamucha – 5,100
Tenshinhan – 175,000
Piccolo – 425,000,000
Son Goten – 4,250,000
Trunks – 4,250,000
Pilaf – 2
Mai – 2.5
Shu – 2
Mr. Satan – 16
#18 – 180,000,000
Son Gohan – 19,500,000,000
Gotenks – 41,500,000
(Super Saiyan) – 2,075,000,000
Vegeta – 25,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,250,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 2,500,000,000
(Rage boost) – 39,500,000,000
Beerus – 40,000,000,000 (0.01% power)
(70% power) – 2,800,000,000,000,000
(100%) – 4,000,000,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 28,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 1,400,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 2,800,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 11,200,000,000
(Super Saiyan God) – 2,400,000,000,000,000 (A level Gokuu could NEVER reach on his own)
(Base SSG) – 2,000,000,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan while still a Super Saiyan God, which is not the same as Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan…ow, my brain) – 2,200,000,000,000,000
Whis – 6,000,000,000,000,000

The above power levels are based upon Akira Toriyama saying that if SSG Goku was a 6, then Beerus was a 10 and Whis was a 15.

Revival of F

Sorbet – 1,000
Tagoma - 22,500
Shisami – 23,800
(post-training) – 475,000,000
Pilaf – 1.8
Mai – 2.5
Shu – 2.2
Planet Trade Empire Soldiers – ~500 (A motley crew)
Elite Mercenaries - ~5,000
Kuririn – 150,000 (back into shape for his police work)
Tenshinhan – 195,500 (performs better than Kuririn, and not just due to his techniques. His stamina and performance genuinely seem better here, and nothing contradicts post-Buu Tenshinhan being stronger anyhow.)
Roshi – 1,500 (The old man was really feeling like it)
(buff) – 6,250
Chiaotzu (unseen) – 800
Yamucha (unseen) – 4,800
Piccolo – 425,000,000,000
(w/o weights) – 475,000,000
Gohan – 100,000,000 (The gains from his ultimate form haven’t completely worn off yet)
(Super Saiyan) – 5,000,000,000
Jaco – 2,250 (Just because he was weaker than an average Saiyan 40-something years ago doesn’t mean he still is)
Freeza – 350,000 (notes he has “lost his touch”, which I interpret to mean his body is somewhat weakened. Fair, since he was just put back together after decades in hell. Unless you’re a Saiyan, that probably leaves you a bit weary)
(Hypothesized gains from training) – 1,300,000 (holds pinky to mouth)
(Actual First Form gains) – 1,300,000,000,000
(True form) – 240,000,000,000,000
(Golden Oscar Freeza) – 3,200,000,000,000,000
(Tired) – 2,200,000,000,000,000
(Tired True Form) – 120,000,000,000,000
Son Gokuu – 300,000,000,000,000 (Gokuu’s base in RoF is not the same as his base state during his fight with Beerus, in my opinion. He was still technically a SSG there, shown when he regained the form. He no longer has access to it directly, although his base state is clearly much, much higher than it ever was before.)
(Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan) – 3,000,000,000,000,000 (Using a 10x multiplier for SSGSS)
Vegeta – 280,000,000,000,000
(SSGSS) – 2,800,000,000,000,000

And as a bonus, some referential power levels from GT!

Son Gokuu – 4,500,000,000
(Super Saiyan) – 225,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 2) – 450,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 3) – 1,800,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 4) – 18,000,000,000,000
(Super Saiyan 4 far past his lmits) – 72,000,000,000,000
(Hypothetical SSJ4 with Dragon Balls) – 550,000,000,000,000 (No reason to think it would make him that much stronger than it did Syn Shenron)
Revived Perfect Cell – 3,250,000,000
Revived Freeza – 2,450,000,000
Super 17 – 38,000,000,000,000
Syn Shenron – 45,000,000,000,000
Omega Shenron – 350,000,000,000,000
Gogeta – 1,440,000,000,000,000

Anyway, I hope you enjoyed reading this! Give me you love, hate and advice!

Nice work, man. I liked most of your power levels except for Yakon and Vegetto that I think were pretty exaggerated.

My Super Saiyan 4 Gogeta would require about 35% of Beerus' power on my list, so it's not that bad there. I agree that making SSJ4 Gogeta 0.1~ percent of Beerus is way too harsh. And Freeza wouldn't have been a match for SSGSS Gokuu if he didn't unlock a super transformation of his own. Freeza probably has the highest potential of any natural born character in the series, outside of Beerus and Whis.

And maybe Goku and Vegeta, now that they're Gods.

Really? SSJ4 Gogeta power being only 35% Beerus? That's what it is way too harsh... For me SSJ4 Gogeta would give Whis a good fight.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I've only seen official sources stating it was addition. Do you have a citation that states otherwise?

What official sources state that it's addition? Because I've seen the opposite.

[dbgtFO]

Herms has stated on twitter, that Beerus apparently used 10% of his power to defeat Rageta.
That might give us a better idea of how the God Powers matches up, but who knows how strong Vegeta was compared to Goku or Buu Arc Vegetto?

[Doctor.]

Herms has stated on twitter, that Beerus apparently used 10% of his power to defeat Rageta.
That might give us a better idea of how the God Powers matches up, but who knows how strong Vegeta was compared to Goku or Buu Arc Vegetto?

Depending on how powerful people consider base Vegetto, they could technically put him above Beerus. If people go by filler and say base Vegetto > Gohan Boo, and even if we stretch it to say SS3 Goku in Super is stronger than Gohan Boo, we'd still get something like this:

SS3 Goku/Base Vegetto: 0.5
Vegeta: 10
Beerus: 100

SS Vegetto: 25
SS2 Vegetto: 50
SS3 Vegetto: 200

Unless Beerus used like 0.1% of his power against Goku, which is definitely possible I guess.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Herms has stated on twitter, that Beerus apparently used 10% of his power to defeat Rageta.

Hmm... And SSG Goku is as strong as 60% Beerus... and Goku & Vegeta are about equals in base. And SSGod requires 6 Saiyans... Maybe Vegeta, somehow, touched at his individual part of SSG?

[dbgtFO]

Herms has stated on twitter, that Beerus apparently used 10% of his power to defeat Rageta.

Hmm... And SSG Goku is as strong as 60% Beerus... and Goku & Vegeta are about equals in base. And SSGod requires 6 Saiyans... Maybe Vegeta, somehow, touched at his individual part of SSG?

Yeah, that sounds very possible.
What do you make of the preview showing the Super Saiyans contributing their power to base Goku?
A possible explanation between Super Saiyan God and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan?

EDIT
New updated power level list in accordance with Dragon Ball Super!

Reference:

Spoiler:

Cell Games

Cell: 3,000,000,000.
-Super: 4,000,000,000.

Super Saiyan Full Power Gohan: 2,500,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 5,000,000,000.

Majin Buu Arc

Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000.

Babidi: 40.
Pui Pui: 4,000.
S2 guy: 400,000.
Yakon: 40,000,000.
Dabra: 4,000,000,000.

Son Gohan: 42,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 4,200,000,000.

Vegeta: 45,000,000.
-Majin Super Saiyan 1: 3,000,000,000.
-Majin Super Saiyan 2: 6,000,000,000.

Son Goku: 60,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 1: 3,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 6,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 24,000,000,000.

Son Goten: 12,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 600,000,000.
Trunks: 13,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 650,000,000.

Gotenks: 3,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 6,000,000,000.

Majin Buu (Fat): 4,500,000,000.
-Power-up 1: 8,000,000,000.
--Power-up 2: 16,000,000,000.
-Point of splitting: 32,000,000,000.

Mr. Buu: 16,000,000,000.
Pure Evil Buu: 20,000,000,000.

The Terrible Super Majin Buu

Kibito: 20,000,000.
Kaioshin: 2,000,000,000.
-Merged with Kibito: 4,040,000,000.

Son Goten: 32,000,000.
Trunks: 32,000,000.

Gotenks: 8,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 1: 16,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 24,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 32,000,000,000.

Son Gohan(Ultimate Power): 40,000,000,000.

Super Majin Buu: 32,000,000,000.
-With Super Gotenks: 64,000,000,000.
-With Super Son Gohan: 72,000,000,000.

Vegetto: 75,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 1: 150,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 300,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 600,000,000,000.

Pure Majin Buu(South Kaioshin absorbed): 30,000,000,000.

A Match with the Whole Universe at Stake

The Kaioshins, who faced Buu
East Kaioshin: 1,000,000,000.
West Kaioshin: 3,000,000,000.
North Kaioshin: 3,000,000,000.
Great Kaioshin: 14,000,000,000.
South Kaioshin: 70,000,000,000.

The Final Battle against Buu
Mr. Satan: 6.66.
Vegeta: 60,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 30,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 60,000,000,000.

Mr. Buu: 16,000,000,000.

Pure Majin Buu : 100,000,000,000.

Super Saiyan Son Goku: 30,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 96,000,000,000.
--Unseen Full Power: 120,000,000,000.

Dragon Ball Super: Battle of Gods Arc

Goten: 32,000,000.
Trunks: 32,000,000.

Gotenks: 8,000,000,000.
Mr. Buu: 16,000,000,000.
Gohan: 40,000,000,000.

Vegeta: 60,000,000.
-Super Saiyan: 30,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 600,000,000,000.

Goku: 60,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 1: 30,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 2: 60,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan 3: 120,000,000,000.
-Super Saiyan God: 6,000,000,000,000.

Beerus(suppressed): 200,000,000,000.
-vs Vegeta: 1,000,000,000,000.
Full power: 10,000,000,000,000.
Whis: 15,000,000,000,000.

[Blackstripe]

Nice work, man. I liked most of your power levels except for Yakon and Vegetto that I think were pretty exaggerated.

Thank you!

Yakon was a bit difficult for me to place, I'll admit. Kaoshin needs to be stronger than Piccolo, but he was terrified of going one-on-one with Yakon. Yakon also had no trouble eating Gokuu's SSJ1 power, but exploded when he tried the same with his SSJ2 power...so that was my reasoning for putting him there.

As for Vegetto, I wanted to include some GT stuff as a reference, and I remembered that Super Vegetto > SSJ4 Goku, but Base GT Goku also = Mr. Buu at the very least. The multipliers basically took care of the rest.

Really? SSJ4 Gogeta power being only 35% Beerus? That's what it is way too harsh... For me SSJ4 Gogeta would give Whis a good fight.

If you feel that way, it's fine. I just don't really see him being that strong. Even Freeza, the super-ultra prodigy mutant maxed out at around 80% Beerus, and that was after somehow bringing out all of his ridiculously huge potential. But maybe he could. Who knows? I won't criticize anyone for placing SSJ4 Gogeta above Beerus, since it's all very ambiguous.

[ahill1]

IMO Gogeta SSJ4 >>>>> Whiss

Piccolo >> Yakon >> East Kaioshin.

[Blackstripe]

Updated the Vegeta/Beerus power levels in the BoG section of my list, to line up with the recent episode of Super. It's crazy to think Vegeta had that much power hidden away, but...well, honestly, Dragon Ball is full of crazy stuff like that.

It also makes you think: Vegeta didn't bring that power out when Cell killed Future Trunks, whom he bonded with for a year in the RoSaT. But Beerus merely slapping Bulma?

Damn.

[ekrolo2]

Updated the Vegeta/Beerus power levels in the BoG section of my list, to line up with the recent episode of Super. It's crazy to think Vegeta had that much power hidden away, but...well, honestly, Dragon Ball is full of crazy stuff like that.

It also makes you think: Vegeta didn't bring that power out when Cell killed Future Trunks, whom he bonded with for a year in the RoSaT. But Beerus merely slapping Bulma?

Damn.

Also puts into perspective just how close GT Gogeta's strength is to Beerus' now.