The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[RandomGuy96]

Tambourine alone would be severe overkill.

[goku the krump dancer]

I wouldn't be too sure, the Humans eventually surpass Raditz by a great deal (meaning humans can get stronger than lower level Saiayans), Spopovich has his power unlocked by Badidi and he does have enough Ki control to where he can weaken his blasts so he wouldn't kill his opponents if he didn't want to. He was seemed to be holding back the only time wee see him fight . So theres a chance that he could give Raditz quiet the challenge until theres a full moon.

Videl is considered by fans and I think by Gohan to be great deal stronger than her father which means she's stronger than the average human so who knows she might be (strength wise) a Tao PaiPai level fighter who knows if that still makes her a match for Tambourine though probably not.

[Kamiccolo9]

I wouldn't be too sure, the Humans eventually surpass Raditz by a great deal (meaning humans can get stronger than lower level Saiayans), Spopovich has his power unlocked by Badidi and he does have enough Ki control to where he can weaken his blasts so he wouldn't kill his opponents if he didn't want to. He was seemed to be holding back the only time wee see him fight . So theres a chance that he could give Raditz quiet the challenge until theres a full moon.

Videl is considered by fans and I think by Gohan to be great deal stronger than her father which means she's stronger than the average human so who knows she might be (strength wise) a Tao PaiPai level fighter who knows if that still makes her a match for Tambourine though probably not.

No, 3 humans became stronger than Raditz, and only because they spent a year training with the God of Earth. Videl has done nothing to demonstrate that she's in the same league as the early Budokai fighters, like Namu or Chappa, and she would have killed Spopovitch if he hadn't had the Majin curse. No way either of them are in the same league as Tambourine, let alone Raditz.

[RandomGuy96]

Chaozu, Tien, Yamcha, and Krillin are stronger than Raditz. So four. Seven if you count Uub, 17, and 18.

Tambourine vs Videl wouldn't be a fight. It would be Tambourine kicking Videl once, snapping her neck in the process.

[Kamiccolo9]

Chaozu, Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Krillin are stronger than Raditz. So four. Seven if you count Uub, 17, and 18.

Tambourine vs Videl wouldn't be a fight. It would be Tambourine kicking Videl once, snapping her neck in the process.

Well, we're not sure about Chaozu. He wasn't by the time they fought the Saiyans, but yeah, he probably was by the end. I didn't count Uub, 17, and 18 because they weren't normal humans.

[goku the krump dancer]

No, 3 humans became stronger than Raditz, and only because they spent a year training with the God of Earth. Videl has done nothing to demonstrate that she's in the same league as the early Budokai fighters, like Namu or Chappa, and she would have killed Spopovitch if he hadn't had the Majin curse. No way either of them are in the same league as Tambourine, let alone Raditz.

I know but my point still stands that humans CAN become stronger than lower level Saiyans regardless of how they go about doing it, hell Krillin becomes stronger than Nappa and Vegeta (Saiyan arc) when he has his power unlocked by the Grand Elder.

Bodidi unlocks Spopovich's power so that Could put him at Raditz's level.

And what Did Nam or Chappa do that was so superior to any thing that Videl did? Sure she probably can't do the ten arms technique but when she did break Spopovich's neck it WAS by accident and by then Spopovich was far stronger than the average Human. Nam's ultimate technique could knock the average person out for ten day or kill them and one kick from Videl accidentally turns an abnormal human's neck 180 degrees.

Sure Raditz and Tambourine may come up victorious but there might be some form of a struggle before sealing the deal.

[Kamiccolo9]

No, 3 humans became stronger than Raditz, and only because they spent a year training with the God of Earth. Videl has done nothing to demonstrate that she's in the same league as the early Budokai fighters, like Namu or Chappa, and she would have killed Spopovitch if he hadn't had the Majin curse. No way either of them are in the same league as Tambourine, let alone Raditz.

I know but my point still stands that humans CAN become stronger than lower level Saiyans regardless of how they go about doing it, hell Krillin becomes stronger than Nappa and Vegeta (Saiyan arc) when he has his power unlocked by the Grand Elder.

Bodidi unlocks Spopovich's power so that Could put him at Raditz's level.

And what Did Nam or Chappa do that was so superior to any thing that Videl did? Sure she probably can't do the ten arms technique but when she did break Spopovich's neck it WAS by accident and by then Spopovich was far stronger than the average Human. Nam's ultimate technique could knock the average person out for ten day or kill them and one kick from Videl accidentally turns an abnormal human's neck 180 degrees.

Sure Raditz and Tambourine may come up victorious but there might be some form of a struggle before sealing the deal.

Namu managed to hurt Goku, who was superhuman level, after his training with Roshi. Remember this is the kid who could shrug off bullets at the beginning of the series, way before any training. Roshi thought that Chappa would be a tough fight for Goku. Sure he was wrong, but only because he underestimated how much stronger Goku had gotten. Other than flying, Videl hasn't demonstrated any kind of superhuman ability.

[rereboy]

I also doubt she could obliterate a city or at least a major part of a city with a Ki attack (like Piccolo Daimao) even if she did an Ki attack. And Radditz is way stronger than Piccolo Daimao, he could probably one shot him without even trying, let alone tamborine.

Hell, even Roshi could destroy a mountain or the moon with his strongest Ki attack and Piccolo Daimao was way too much for him.

[Nikkolas]

Piccolo vs. SSJ Goten or (Kid) Trunks

Obviously this is as of the Buu Arc.

[Kamiccolo9]

Piccolo vs. SSJ Goten or (Kid) Trunks

Obviously this is as of the Buu Arc.

Piccolo would stomp them both.

[Nikkolas]

That's what i thought but Saiga disagrees and he most assuredly knows more about the Buu Saga than I do. I thought I missed something.

[Kamiccolo9]

Goten and Trunks fought fairly evenly with 18 as Super Saiyans. Piccolo is much stronger than 18, so he could beat Goten and Trunks.

[rereboy]

Goten and Trunks fought fairly evenly with 18 as Super Saiyans. Piccolo is much stronger than 18, so he could beat Goten and Trunks.

Actually, they fought her most of the time in their base. So they are probably stronger than her in their SSJ. However, I still have Piccolo as stronger than them based on the fact that Piccolo was the prominent being that emerged on Super Buu when the boys' fusion time ran out.

[Saiga]

However, I still have Piccolo as stronger than them based on the fact that Piccolo was the prominent being that emerged on Super Buu when the boys' fusion time ran out.

The problem with this as proof is that we see the boys in base form inside Boo, because they return to base after defusing. Anyway, there's no definitive proof that Boo takes on the features of the strongest person he absorbs, otherwise Fat Boo would be more influenced by S. Kaioshin's appearance.

I think Goten and Trunks are both stronger than Piccolo based on his reaction to their full power. It's not much, but it's the only thing we have to compare them.

The only other way to compare them is power scaling and that also puts the boys ahead for me.

[MDSTSSJ]

Piccolo vs. SSJ Goten or (Kid) Trunks

Obviously this is as of the Buu Arc.

Piccolo is stronger ( but not by much ) than SSJ Goten and SSJ Trunks.

In the Cell Saga, Piccolo was slightly stronger than 17 and 18. After entering the ROSAT, he became much stronger.

[rereboy]

However, I still have Piccolo as stronger than them based on the fact that Piccolo was the prominent being that emerged on Super Buu when the boys' fusion time ran out.

The problem with this as proof is that we see the boys in base form inside Boo, because they return to base after defusing. Anyway, there's no definitive proof that Boo takes on the features of the strongest person he absorbs, otherwise Fat Boo would be more influenced by S. Kaioshin's appearance.

I think Goten and Trunks are both stronger than Piccolo based on his reaction to their full power. It's not much, but it's the only thing we have to compare them.

The only other way to compare them is power scaling and that also puts the boys ahead for me.

I fail to see why the kids have to be SSJ while inside Buu for him to tap into their full power. Following that logic, shouldn't Piccolo and Gohan be constantly with an white Ki aura at maximum Ki output while inside Buu so that Buu can tap into that power? If Buu can't tap into the kids full power, how can he tap into Gohan's and Piccolo's full power if they are visibly not using it inside of Buu? To me that logic doesn't make any sense. I don't think that the person who was absorbed needs to be achieving his full power like he would outside of Buu for Buu to be able to tap it.

Anyway, although there is no definite proof, I think that what is most likely is that almost always the person who influences Buu the most is the most powerful. But regarding Piccolo and the kids, I think that its clear that it was power that made Piccolo the most prominent. Think about it. What's the only difference between Buu with Gotenks and Piccolo absorbed and Buu with the kids and Piccolo absorbed? The answer is power. In the first case, the kids have much more power than in the second case. Their personalities and everything else that could influence Buu was present in both cases, the only difference was power. And yet, in the first case, Gotenks is the prominent one and in the second its Piccolo. What changed for that to happen? Only one thing changed: power. So, thanks to that we know that power plays a large part in who becomes prominent in Buu when multiple people are absorbed. And its likely that it is the most important factor in almost all the cases. The Dai Kaioshin absorption was a clear exception, since no absorption has ever influenced Buu as much as him. Buu changed radically after absorbing him and that was probably because he was the highest God in the universe. In short, although there is no proof, I believe that this is the most likely scenario.

As far power scaling, that's more unreliable than what I stated. Even though there is no proof, I think that what I stated are way better indicators than completely subjective power scaling.

[Saiga]

Being able to use the power of Gohan and Piccolo without them having an aura is in no way comparable to being able to use Goten and Trunks' Super Saiyan powers without them being Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan isn't just being powered up.

Your explanation for Dai Kaioshin influencing despite not being the strongest is pretty flat, imo. Nowhere is it implied that Boo's appearance if influenced by his strongest absorbee and Dai Kaioshin flies in the face of such an idea. So, I don't think it's reasonable to assume this is the case at all. And the difference between Boo before and after the fusion comes undone isn't just power, it's also the identities of his absorbees. For all we know it's based on personality, which actually fits Dai Kaioshin influencing his appearance.

Oh, and Super Boo (Goten, Trunks and Piccolo) isn't just influenced in his appearance by Piccolo. We see Evil Boo (Piccolo) later once everyone else is freed, and he has Piccolo's shirt and pants as well as less human features. So Goten and Trunks are still influencing Boo, quite a lot.

And you must've missed what I said about Piccolo's reaction to their full power. That was what I was talking about when I said "the only other way to tell is power scaling". I meant Piccolo's reaction, and power scaling. Because Boo's appearance is nothing close to reliable, there's far too many unknowns with how his absorption works.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I believe that the kids are stronger than Piccolo. Goten is stated to be as strong as Gohan in Daizenshuu 2 (with Trunks a bit stronger than Goten). SS Trunks was able to fire a ki blast strong enough to be considered dangerous for #18, Piccolo was surprised & scared by their full power.

Another fight now:

Son Goten vs Son Goku

Goku is from Boo arc, Goten in his prime from Dragon Ball Online. It is revealed that both Goten & Trunks started practicing Ki-Control Swordsmanship, and that they developed their natural potential through intense training. So, did Goten managed to surpass his father? Did he go beyond Super Saiyan?

[rereboy]

Being able to use the power of Gohan and Piccolo without them having an aura is in no way comparable to being able to use Goten and Trunks' Super Saiyan powers without them being Super Saiyan. Super Saiyan isn't just being powered up.

I agree that it's not the same thing, but it is comparable. The same reason why it doesn't make much sense to expect Gohan or Piccolo to be visibly constantly outputting their maximum Ki while inside Buu, it doesn't make much sense to expect the kids to do the same or to be constantly SSJ to do it while inside of Buu.

I think its likely that Buu is directly "sucking" their full power from their bodies and spirits, without that power needing to be manifested visibly in their bodies, which is why Buu can use all of their Ki (which is made of vitality, the right state of mind and courage), without them being awake or outputting their maximum Ki. If that wasn't the case, since we know that Ki is made of vitality, the right state of mind and courage, how could Buu actually use their Ki while they are in a coma inside him?

Your explanation for Dai Kaioshin influencing despite not being the strongest is pretty flat, imo. Nowhere is it implied that Boo's appearance if influenced by his strongest absorbee and Dai Kaioshin flies in the face of such an idea. So, I don't think it's reasonable to assume this is the case at all. And the difference between Boo before and after the fusion comes undone isn't just power, it's also the identities of his absorbees. For all we know it's based on personality, which actually fits Dai Kaioshin influencing his appearance.

Gotenks' personality, experience, ideas and everything else that makes him who he is, is merely the personality, experience, ideas and everything else of Goten and Trunks combined. The only thing that Gotenks has that Goten and Trunks combined don't have is power, since Gotenks power is actually greater than the combined powers of Trunks and Goten.

That being the case, like I said, the only difference between the two cases is merely power. That implies, by itself, that a major factor in who is prominent in Buu is power.

Also, the fact that Gohan was more prominent in Buu than Piccolo, despite the fact that Piccolo is a former god with vast knowledge, intelligence and a strong personality, also supports this idea.

Following your idea of always being based on personality, I don't see any reason for Piccolo to not be the most prominent one in Buu in all three cases, if power wasn't the biggest factor in these cases.

My explanation for Dai Kaioshin may be flat but its all there is to go on in the manga. Explaining it solely on personality doesn't seem coherent with all the absorptions we see, making it, in my view, a weaker explanation. Also, considering that when Buu absorbs someone, he is influenced by the person's mind and spirit, I would say that the influence of the mind and spirit of the highest god in the universe should not be taken lightly... It could even be enough to make Dai Kaioshin more influential in Buu than another, more powerful, person. Of course, there is also the possibility that Dai Kaioshin planned to be absorbed and did something special to undermine Buu in doing so, kind of like a trojan horse, since Buu is much more like a simpleton or a child than actually a god and doesn't even seem to have any knowledge that the Dai Kaioshin had.

Oh, and Super Boo (Goten, Trunks and Piccolo) isn't just influenced in his appearance by Piccolo. We see Evil Boo (Piccolo) later once everyone else is freed, and he has Piccolo's shirt and pants as well as less human features. So Goten and Trunks are still influencing Boo, quite a lot.

Which is why I said "prominent", as in the most influential.

And you must've missed what I said about Piccolo's reaction to their full power. That was what I was talking about when I said "the only other way to tell is power scaling". I meant Piccolo's reaction, and power scaling. Because Boo's appearance is nothing close to reliable, there's far too many unknowns with how his absorption works.

Piccolo never suggests that the kids full power is greater than his own, no matter how impressed he is with them.

Even with all the unknowns in that process, I think its more reliable than arbitrary power scaling, because there things strongly implied regarding power in Buu's absorptions.

[Saiga]

Well it seems there's nothing we can do but agree to disagree. I see that as being far more subjective than power scaling though.

Son Goten vs Son Goku

Goku is from Boo arc, Goten in his prime from Dragon Ball Online. It is revealed that both Goten & Trunks started practicing Ki-Control Swordsmanship, and that they developed their natural potential through intense training. So, did Goten managed to surpass his father? Did he go beyond Super Saiyan?

Goten was a Super Saiyan at only 7 years old, and I think intense training would put him way about Goku once he became an adult. So he stomps with ease.