The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[rereboy]

In theory, Goten should have more potential. I guess that it depends on how hard he pushed himself.

[Pantalones]

I can't really picture Goten ever surpassing Goku. He may have enough dormant potential, but without a Kaioshin power-up like Gohan got I can't really see how he'd ever actually reach that level of power. Maybe some alternate Goten with a personality that was drastically different than the Goten we know (...Goten who trains like Vegeta??) might be able to do it, I dunno.

And for Piccolo vs. Goten/Trunks... I think Piccolo was definitely stronger than either of them before they did their extra training to prepare to fight Buu as Gotenks. #18 was a little freaked out by their blast, sure, but at that point she still thought the guy she was fighting was a single ordinary human in a goofy costume (who she had been holding back on, even after noticing that he was stronger than expected... and as we've seen before, someone who's suppressing their power can sometimes get caught off guard and hurt by something that might not otherwise be a threat) and wasn't expecting anything like that; it could be that the blast was legitimately strong enough to hurt her, but it was only a major problem for her when she was holding back like that and not expecting it. It wasn't until after that that she figured out who they really were. Piccolo, on the other hand, should be way above #18's level, to the point where she couldn't possibly put up much of a fight against him at full power, and definitely not if she was holding back. He was slightly stronger than #18 (equal to #17) before doing even further training (not to mention another 7 years after Cell), so he's probably at least surpassed #16 and full-power Imperfect Cell by now, if not "Semi-Perfect" Cell and Vegeta/Trunks when they were fighting that form of Cell.
So Piccolo should definitely be stronger than the kids were at the start of the Buu saga, at the very least. I think he's probably still stronger either of the kids afterward, though it depends on just how much stronger they got (and how much stronger Piccolo got during the 7 years after Cell); they might be getting close to him at that point (so he wouldn't be able to beat both of them at once or anything.) I could maybe buy them barely surpassing him rather than still being weaker, but personally I think it's more likely that they're still weaker.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I can't really picture Goten ever surpassing Goku. He may have enough dormant potential, but without a Kaioshin power-up like Gohan got I can't really see how he'd ever actually reach that level of power. Maybe some alternate Goten with a personality that was drastically different than the Goten we know (...Goten who trains like Vegeta??) might be able to do it, I dunno.

Well, higher dormant power definitely is a factor for someone to surpass another with lower dormant power. And we know that Goten did intense training & developed his natural power (I assume natural power is dormant power?), so if he managed to reach his limits, and went beyond Super Saiyan, then I can see Goten becoming much, much stronger than Goku.

[MDSTSSJ]

I can't really picture Goten ever surpassing Goku. He may have enough dormant potential, but without a Kaioshin power-up like Gohan got I can't really see how he'd ever actually reach that level of power. Maybe some alternate Goten with a personality that was drastically different than the Goten we know (...Goten who trains like Vegeta??) might be able to do it, I dunno.

Well, higher dormant power definitely is a factor for someone to surpass another with lower dormant power. And we know that Goten did intense training & developed his natural power (I assume natural power is dormant power?), so if he managed to reach his limits, and went beyond Super Saiyan, then I can see Goten becoming much, much stronger than Goku.

For me, Goten never surpass Goku. We know almost nothing about Goku or Vegeta dormant powers but we do know something about the potential of hybrids dormant powers.

For me, Why not think that Kakarotto and Vegeta could have enormous hidden powers? Even more larger than Hybrids? Even though it has nothing to do here, in BOG we know about Vegeta power up rage boost surpassing his limits and Birusu says Kakarotto ¨ has immeasurable latent power¨.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Hybrids are stated to have higher dormant power than the full-blooded Saiyans, that's a fact.

[MDSTSSJ]

Hybrids are stated to have higher dormant power than the full-blooded Saiyans, that's a fact.

If I'm not mistaken, Vegeta was the first that he said something about it. He said something like ¨apparently¨. I don´t remember!

And what would be your opinion about BOG statement: ¨ Vegeta power up rage boost surpassing his limits and Birusu says Kakarotto has immeasurable latent power ¨

Cheers

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If I'm not mistaken, Vegeta was the first that he said something about it. He said something like ¨apparently¨. I don/t remember!

I don't remember what was stated in the manga about this, but Daizenshuu definitely stated that Saiyan Hybrids have greater dormant power than the Saiyans.

And what would be your opinion about BOG statement: ¨ Vegeta power up rage boost surpassing his limits and Birusu says Kakarotto has immeasurable latent power ¨

The Saiyans having immeasurable latent power was also stated in the manga by Freeza, and the fact that Beers stated this for Goku & Vegeta doesn't mean that the same doesn't apply to Gohan, Goten, or Trunks.
Beers effortlessly defeated SS Gotenks (whom I have below SS3 Goku in BoG) by spanking him, and then Gotenks didn't do anything else. Ultimate Gohan (whom I have stronger than Goku, but not strong enough to beat him like Beers defeated Goku) was also effortlessly defeated by Beers after smashing his head with Boo's head, and then got a hard kick on his stomach, and got K.O.ed. SS2 Vegeta (I believe he is stronger than SS3 Goku because of his training, not because he got angry. When he got angry, he just went full power IMO, and Goku's line about having Bulma get hit again next time is just a joke by Goku IMO) also got effortlessly defeated by Beers, but he did displayed his skills on Beers before getting beaten, unlike Gohan & Gotenks, who didn't get the chance to do anything. Goku was a Super Saiyan God, stronger than everyone.

[Barunks]

So, Has anyone proposed a Super Saiyan 4 Goku vs Bills match up in all these mass of pages yet?

[Kamiccolo9]

So, Has anyone proposed a Super Saiyan 4 Goku vs Bills match up in all these mass of pages yet?

Isn't Vegito said to be as strong as a Super Saiyan 4? If so, that would make Birisu stronger than SSJ4 Goku.

[MDSTSSJ]

So, Has anyone proposed a Super Saiyan 4 Goku vs Bills match up in all these mass of pages yet?

Isn't Vegito said to be as strong as a Super Saiyan 4? If so, that would make Birisu stronger than SSJ4 Goku.

I don´t know really. GT base Kakarotto is stronger than SSJ3, imagine how powerful can be in SSJ4.

[MDSTSSJ]

If I'm not mistaken, Vegeta was the first that he said something about it. He said something like ¨apparently¨. I don/t remember!

I don't remember what was stated in the manga about this, but Daizenshuu definitely stated that Saiyan Hybrids have greater dormant power than the Saiyans.

And what would be your opinion about BOG statement: ¨ Vegeta power up rage boost surpassing his limits and Birusu says Kakarotto has immeasurable latent power ¨

The Saiyans having immeasurable latent power was also stated in the manga by Freeza, and the fact that Beers stated this for Goku & Vegeta doesn't mean that the same doesn't apply to Gohan, Goten, or Trunks.
Beers effortlessly defeated SS Gotenks (whom I have below SS3 Goku in BoG) by spanking him, and then Gotenks didn't do anything else. Ultimate Gohan (whom I have stronger than Goku, but not strong enough to beat him like Beers defeated Goku) was also effortlessly defeated by Beers after smashing his head with Boo's head, and then got a hard kick on his stomach, and got K.O.ed. SS2 Vegeta (I believe he is stronger than SS3 Goku because of his training, not because he got angry. When he got angry, he just went full power IMO, and Goku's line about having Bulma get hit again next time is just a joke by Goku IMO) also got effortlessly defeated by Beers, but he did displayed his skills on Beers before getting beaten, unlike Gohan & Gotenks, who didn't get the chance to do anything. Goku was a Super Saiyan God, stronger than everyone.

¨ When Vegeta hears that Beers beat Super Saiyan 3 Goku with just two blows, Vegeta likewise assumes that none of the gang on Earth can stand up to Beers, and events bear this out [implying that SSj3 Goku is stronger than Gohan and Gotenks by this point? Or maybe Gohan/Gotenks are still stronger, but not strong enough to beat SSj3 Goku in two blows, so Vegeta knows they're no match for anyone strong enough to defeat Goku so easily ¨

¨ He only panics when Kaio tells him how Beers beat SSj3 Goku in two blows, so apparently he's still weaker than Goku at this point ¨

Vegeta stronger than Kakarotto? Don´t make any sense, however I would like it at some point. Vegeta apparently is training hard but Goku also do his training in the other World. None of them has stopped training and so I personally think there will always be a ( big or small ) difference in their powers.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

¨ When Vegeta hears that Beers beat Super Saiyan 3 Goku with just two blows, Vegeta likewise assumes that none of the gang on Earth can stand up to Beers, and events bear this out [implying that SSj3 Goku is stronger than Gohan and Gotenks by this point? Or maybe Gohan/Gotenks are still stronger, but not strong enough to beat SSj3 Goku in two blows, so Vegeta knows they're no match for anyone strong enough to defeat Goku so easily ¨

¨ He only panics when Kaio tells him how Beers beat SSj3 Goku in two blows, so apparently he's still weaker than Goku at this point ¨

What I believe is that while Ultimate Gohan, SS3 Gotenks, and SS2 Vegeta are stronger than SS3 Goku, they are not strong enough to defeat him with two hits.

[Saiyan Prince Vegeta]

DBZGTKOSDH where would you place a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegeta in comparison to Gohan or Gotenks?

[TheMightyOzaru]

Well I know I'm not the person you want an answer from but a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegeta should be stronger than both Gohan and Gotenks based his little episode with Birusu.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

DBZGTKOSDH where would you place a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegeta in comparison to Gohan or Gotenks?

I think he would be weaker, since I have SS Gotenks a little weaker than SS3 Goku, meaning that Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks would be around 8 times stronger than SS3 Goku (I have U. Gohan less than 2 times stronger than SS3 Gotenks, since I believe that Boo's absorption ability works as an addition). I have SS2 Vegeta less than 2 times stronger than Goku, so SS3 Vegeta would be 4 times stronger, but around 2 times weaker than SS3 Gotenks.

Well I know I'm not the person you want an answer from but a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegeta should be stronger than both Gohan and Gotenks based his little episode with Birusu.

Why?

[TheMightyOzaru]

DBZGTKOSDH where would you place a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegeta in comparison to Gohan or Gotenks?

I think he would be weaker, since I have SS Gotenks a little weaker than SS3 Goku, meaning that Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks would be around 8 times stronger than SS3 Goku (I have U. Gohan less than 2 times stronger than SS3 Gotenks, since I believe that Boo's absorption ability works as an addition). I have SS2 Vegeta less than 2 times stronger than Goku, so SS3 Vegeta would be 4 times stronger, but around 2 times weaker than SS3 Gotenks.

Well I know I'm not the person you want an answer from but a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegeta should be stronger than both Gohan and Gotenks based his little episode with Birusu.

Why?

I already have SSJ2 Vegeta above the both of them in the movie so I would say SSJ3 Vegeta is stronger too .

[DBZGTKOSDH]

I already have SSJ2 Vegeta above the both of them in the movie so I would say SSJ3 Vegeta is stronger too .

Well... why?

[TheMightyOzaru]

I already have SSJ2 Vegeta above the both of them in the movie so I would say SSJ3 Vegeta is stronger too .

Well... why?

He actually hit Birusu.... Gohan didn't.

[dbzfan7]

I treat the Vegeta scene as a gag.

Yūsuke Watanabe

But in the story Toriyama-sensei made, Vegeta was supposed to waver, and there’s even a moment where Vegeta briefly surpasses Goku because he’s got something to protect in Bulma, so that silly scene was also necessary as a lead-in to make it stand out.

The moment is brief as stated by Yusuke, which means once it is over he is no longer above SSJ3 Goku. Its all because Vegeta had something to protect in Bulma, so he basically raged because the one he loved was attacked.I Think of Vegeta's moment as like some animals mother protecting their babies, they become more vicious, violent, and dangerous when their children are in danger then they normally are. I personally think if Videl or Chi Chi were attacked like that, Goku and Gohan would do the same thing as Vegeta. Yusuke also calls it a silly scene which is what cements it for me that this was a gag scene.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Just because the scene is silly doesn't mean it didn't happen within the context of the story. Seriously by that logic the entirety of Dragon Ball didn't happen.