Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Hugo Boss]

The vast majority of Buuhan's power was being extrapolated from Gohan, so using this particular incarnation of Buu as a comparison is nothing short of dropping the latter's name.

Well, the majority of Cell's power was being extrapolated from No. 17 and No. 18, that doesn't stop us from calling him Cell. The same could be said from Bebi, since most of his power came from Vegeta, or Rild, whose most of his power comes from Planet M2 itself.

I'm honestly a tad bit surprised you would say such a thing. Pretty sure I recall you saying something about Kaioshin referring to First Form Freeza.

Also, Cell's design entailed utilizing the androids for his own purposes, so in my opinion the two are not synonymous.

You misunderstood that instance. I said anything in regards to Freeza could be about any of his forms, including the very first one. And I don't understand what is your opinion about Cell, can you clear this up?

By the way, Gohan-Boo is just a easier way to refer to the powered-up form Majin Boo is when he absorbs Gohan. His name is still Majin Boo regardless of the people that are inside him. Even so this is not proof that Goku must be talking about Gohan-Boo in that sentence.

[h0kuten]

Legend & Gaps

5% Gap ~ Technique can make a difference.
10% Gap ~ The battle becomes one sided.
15% Gap ~ The battle is completely one sided. A surprise attack can still ensure victory.
20% Gap ~ The weaker opponent has no hopes of winning, except in numbers.
25% Gap ~ No amount of weaker opponents can defeat someone this much more powerful.
30% Gap ~ Tank range. Blood is drawn. Fighter is knocked off balanced.
40% Gap ~ Tank range. No blood is drawn. Body is pushed back.
50% Gap ~ Stronger opponent is to fast to detect. Tank range. No blood. No movement.

Multipliers

Ssj ~ 50x Base
SsjG2 ~ 62.5x Base
SsjG3 ~ 125x Base
Ssj2 ~ 100x Base
Ssj3 ~ 400x Base
SSJG ~ 400,000x Base or 1,000x Ssj3


Dragonball Z

Frieza Saga

Spoiler:

Goku
~Ssj 150,000,000

Frieza
~4th Form 100% 120,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 1,500,000

Gohan
~Full Power 1,750,000

Vegeta
~Full Power 2,400,000

Arrival of Trunks

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 4,800,000
~Ssj 240,000,000

Trunks
~Base 4,000,000
~Ssj 200,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 5,000,000

Vegeta
~Full Power 3,400,000

Gohan
~Full POwer 2,400,000

Mecha Frieza
~Suppressed 80,000,000
~Full Power 160,000,000

King Cold
~Full Power 90,000,000

Arrival of The Androids

Spoiler:

Vegeta
~Base 7,600,000
~Ssj 380,000,000

Goku
~Base 7,200,000
~Sick 270,000,000 (And draining)
~Ssj 360,000,000

Trunks
~Base 6,800,000
~Ssj 340,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 300,000,000

Kamiccolo
~Full Power 500,000,000
~Light Grenade 625,000,000

Gohan
~Full Power 5,000,000

Pre
Android 19
~Full Power 80,000,000
Android 20
~Full Power 90,000,000

Post
Android 19
~Full Power 260,000,000
Android 20
~Full Power 225,000,000

Android 18
~Full Power 475,000,000

Android 17
~Full Power 500,000,000

Imperfect Cell
~Pre 425,000,000

Cell Is Complete

Spoiler:

Goku (Training in RoSaT)
~Base 14,400,000
~Ssj 720,000,000
~SsjG2 900,000,000
~SsjG3 1,800,000,000

Gohan (Training in RoSaT)
~Base 20,000,000
~Ssj 1,000,000,000
~Ssj2 2,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 35,200,000
~Ssj 1,760,000,000
~SsjG2 2,200,000,000

Trunks
~Base 32,000,000
~Ssj 1,600,000,000
~SsjG2 2,000,000,000
~SsjG3 4,000,000,000

Android 16
~Full Power 1,000,000,000

Imperfect Cell
~Post 1,000,000,000

Semi-Perfect Cell
~Full Power 1,600,000,000

Perfect Cell
~Initial 2,000,000,000
~Silent Power Up 3,600,000,000
[/spoiler
The Cell Games

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 140,000,000
~50% 3,500,000,000
~Mssj 7,000,000,000

Gohan
~Base 180,000,000
~Mssj 9,000,000,000
~Ssj2 18,000,000,000
~Enraged 27,000,000,0000

Vegeta
~Base 100,000,000
~Ssj 5,000,000,000

Trunks
~Base 100,000,000
~Ssj 5,000,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 4,500,000,000

Cell Juniors
~Full Power 6,000,000,000

Perfect Cell
~Silent Power Up 3,600,000,000
~Powered Up 7,500,000,000
~Increased Speed 8,000,000,000
~Real Speed 10,000,000,000
~Full Power 12,500,000,000

Super Perfect Cell`
~Full Power 25,000,000,000

The Majin Boo Saga

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 300,000,000
~Ssj 15,000,000,000
~Ssj2 30,000,000,000
~Ssj3 120,000,000,000

Vegeta Pre-Majin
~Base 225,000,000
~Ssj 11,250,000,000
[~Ssj2 22,500,000,000]

Majin Vegeta
~Full Power 30,000,000,000

Teen Gohan
~Base 180,000,000
~Ssj 9,000,000,000
~Ssj2 18,000,000,000

Android 18
~Full Power 475,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 7,500,000,000

Pre-ROST

Goten
~Base 120,000,000
~Ssj 6,000,000,000
Trunks
~Base 132,000,000
~Ssj 6,600,000,000

Dabura
~Full Power 10,000,000,000

Fat Boo
~Initial 15,000,000,000
~Powered Up 30,000,000,000
~Full Power 45,000,000,000

Gotenks Pre-ROST
~Base 12,000,000,000
~Ssj 60,000,000,000

The Fusion Saga

Spoiler:

Post-ROST

Goten
~Base 180,000,000
~Mssj 9,000,000,000

Trunks
~Base 180,000,000
~Mssj 9,000,000,000

Gotenks Post-ROST
~Base 90,000,000,000
~Ssj 450,000,000,000
[~Ssj2 900,000,000,000]
~Ssj3 3,600,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan
~Full Power 5,400,000,000,000

Super Boo
~Full Powr 3,200,000,000,000

Buff Boo
~Full Power 4,800,000,000,000

Bootenks
~Full Power 6,800,000,000,000

Boohan
~Full Power 8,600,000,000,000

Vegetto
~Base 7,500,000,000,000
~Ssj 75,000,000,000,000
[~Ssj2 150,000,000,000,000]
[~Ssj3 600,000,000,000,000]

Kid Boo
~Full Power 132,000,000,000

Good Boo
~Full Power 90,000,000,000
[/spoiler
Dragonball Super

Spoiler:

Goku
~Base 15,000,000,000 /Suppressed 100,000,000 (Countered ;D)
~Ssj 750,000,000,000
~Ssj2 1,500,000,000,000
~Ssj3 6,000,000,000,000
~All Power Absorbed 12,909,000,000,000

Vegeta
~Base 15,000,000,000
~Ssj 750,000,000,000
~Ssj2 1,500,000,000,000

Raging Vegeta
~Initial 300,000,000,000,000
~Gallic Gun 600,000,000,000,000

Ultimate Gohan
~Full Power 5,400,000,000,000

Piccolo
~Full Power 15,000,000,000

Goten
~Base 180,000,000
~Ssj 9,000,000,000

Trunks
~Base 180,000,000
~Ssj 9,000,000,000

Good Boo
~Full Power 90,000,000,000

Android 18
~Full Power 475,000,000

Gotenks
~Base 90,000,000,000
[~Ssj 450,000,000,000]
[~Ssj2 900,000,000,000]
~Ssj3 3,600,000,000,000

Goku Super Saiyan God
~80% 4,800,000,000,000,000
~100% 6,000,000,000,000,000

Goku Post God
~Base 2,500,000,000,000,000
~Ssj 5,000,000,000,000,000

Beerus
~10% 1,000,000,000,000,000
~50% 5,000,000,000,000,000
~70% 7,000,000,000,000,000
~100% 10,000,000,000,000,000

Whiss
~Full Power 15,000,000,000,000,000

[LightBing]

Could you please hide the numbers using the spoiler option? It makes it easier to read.

I disagree with your gaps. It's not certain science, but if there's a 10% gap there would be a decent fight in most cases. 15% for creatures like Boo with his regeneration.Also the descriptions are for what type of attack, would the receiver be prepared to take the hit? Goku and Piccolo had an above 50% gap versus Raditz, even if dominated they could arguably damage him with their strongest attacks, even kill him.

Regarding the numbers. How is Gohan stronger than Piccolo in Namek? Why do you think Piccolo gained so much power, from Namek until Trunks appears?

[h0kuten]

Could you please hide the numbers using the spoiler option? It makes it easier to read.

I disagree with your gaps. It's not certain science, but if there's a 10% gap there would be a decent fight in most cases. 15% for creatures like Boo with his regeneration.Also the descriptions are for what type of attack, would the receiver be prepared to take the hit? Goku and Piccolo had an above 50% gap versus Raditz, even if dominated they could arguably damage him with their strongest attacks, even kill him.

Regarding the numbers. How is Gohan stronger than Piccolo in Namek? Why do you think Piccolo gained so much power, from Namek until Trunks appears?

A 9% gap lead to Dodoria getting stomped by Vegeta. I believe my gaps are definitely giving the implications of the Manga the benefit of the doubt. A major block that cannot be avoided is this:

Chapter: 283 (DBZ 89), P11.1-3
Ginyu: "In my estimation, his ability looks like it's about 60,000."

Goku toyed the Ginyu Force to a degree far, far greater than Fat Boo toyed Majin Vegeta Ssj2, Vegeta SsjG2 toyed Semi-Perfect Cell, and even Goku Ssj3 toying Fat Majin Boo. This infers that a 50% gap leads to a fighter being in-able to see their opponents movements.

Following the basis of this 50% chart, Goku was able to tank Majin Boo's punch without drawing blood. That I would call a 40% gap. Vegeta SsjG2 drew blood from Semi-Perfect Cell, who was able to at least fight back to some degree -I'd call that a 30% gap.

As for why Gohan is stronger than Piccolo on Namek, I'm following withheldforprivacy's theory that after Gohan had a rage boost (like he did against 2nd Form & 3rd Form Frieza), he kept that increase of power, nothing says he didn't.

The reason I have Piccolo gaining so much power from Namek to when Trunks appears is because following Trunk's arrival Piccolo makes the most massive gains out of any fighter. Therefore, I've got him as the strongest, excluding the Super Saiyans, even by Trunks' arrival.

Chapter: 334 (DBZ 140), P1.4
Goku: "Well at any rate, who was it who defeated Freeza? That was an incredible ki. Was it Piccolo? Or Vegeta?"
Note: obviously it wasn't either, but it might be notable that Goku at least felt it conceivable that Piccolo did it.

As well as this: http://www.neoseeker.com/forums/88/t167 ... ha-freeza/

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Following the basis of this 50% chart, Goku was able to tank Majin Boo's punch without drawing blood. That I would call a 40% gap. Vegeta SsjG2 drew blood from Semi-Perfect Cell, who was able to at least fight back to some degree -I'd call that a 30% gap.

Spoiler:

^What's the gap?

[Darkron2151]

Following the basis of this 50% chart, Goku was able to tank Majin Boo's punch without drawing blood. That I would call a 40% gap. Vegeta SsjG2 drew blood from Semi-Perfect Cell, who was able to at least fight back to some degree -I'd call that a 30% gap.

Spoiler:

^What's the gap?

~12.5% Gap, more or less.

• 18,000 vs. ~16,000

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I realize that. I was just pointing out that there's a relatively small gap there and Goku drew blood from Vegeta. Going by his logic, the Fat Boo/SS3 Goku gap would be smaller than this gap.

[Darkron2151]

I realize that.

Hey, you asked. (Whether it'd be rhetorical or not)

Off of that topic, where would you all put Gohan and the humans' power levels in:

• 1. Freeza Saga (Krillin and Gohan during the Freeza fight & Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu after Kaio's training)
  2. Trunks' Arrival
  2. Android Saga

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Off of that topic, where would you all put Gohan and the humans' power levels in:

• 1. Freeza Saga (Krillin and Gohan during the Freeza fight & Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu after Kaio's training)
  2. Trunks' Arrival
  2. Android Saga

Well, I have a lot of different lists, but going by Goku on Namek being 3 million, I'd have:

Spoiler:

Son Gohan
post Ginyu zenkai / power gradually increasing
~ full power - 400,000
~ enraged - 1,000,000
post 2nd form Freeza fight zenkai + last potential increase
~ full power - 900,000
~ enraged - 1,800,000

Kuririn
power gradually increasing
~ full power - 360,000
last potential increase / potential fully unlocked
~ full power - 450,000

Tenshinhan
post Kaio-sama's training
~ full power - 100,000

Yamcha
post Kaio-sama's training
~ full power - 45,000

Chaozu
post Kaio-sama's training
~ full power - 12,000

[I base their levels off of the Ginyu fight on Kaio's filler.]

Son Goku
post Ginyu zenkai
~ full power - 3,000,000

Spoiler:

Son Gohan
post 260 days of rest + studying and 1 year studying after Namek battle
~ full power - 2,750,000

Kuririn
post 130 days dead, 130 days of rest, and 1 year of training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 2,400,000

Tenshinhan
post 266 days training with Kaio-sama, and 1 year training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 1,830,000

Yamcha
post 136 days training with Kaio-sama and 1 year & 130 days of rest + rest after Namek battle
~ full power - 1,480,000

Chaozu
post 266 days training with Kaio-sama, and 1 year training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 610,000

[I arbitrarily put Tenshinhan, Yamcha, and Chaozu all 1,000x their Saiyan arc powers. Krillin's stated to be above Tenshinhan in multiple sources so that's how it is, and Gohan is still stronger than Krillin by status quo. I just assume his gradual power up from The Grand Elder lasted a little past Namek.]

Spoiler:

Son Gohan
post 3 years Androids preparation training
~ full power - 7,200,000

Kuririn
post 3 years Androids preparation training
~ full power - 6,000,000

Tenshinhan
post 3 years Androids preparation training
~ full power - 5,000,000

Yamcha
post 3 years Androids preparation training
~ full power - 4,000,000

Chaozu
post 3 years Androids preparation training
~ full power - 1,000,000

[I guess they're a little high here, but there's no contradictions and I like being generous. The general Gohan > Krillin > Ten > Yamcha > Chaozu pecking order stayed the same since nothing says otherwise. Chaozu always seems to be lagging behind so I gave him less impressive gains compared to the others.]

[Blackstripe]

Yamcha
post 3 years Androids preparation training
~ full power - 4,000,000

Chaozu
post 266 days training with Kaio-sama, and 1 year training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 1,000,000

Clearly useless against an army of 1 - 5,000 fodder.

I always put the humans low, but after RoF, I particularly put these two quite low. Yamucha pretty much gave up training and was never that good in the first place. Probably less than Nappa by RoF.

[ZombieVito]

Off of that topic, where would you all put Gohan and the humans' power levels in:

• 1. Freeza Saga (Krillin and Gohan during the Freeza fight & Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Chaozu after Kaio's training)
  2. Trunks' Arrival
  2. Android Saga

Freeza Arc:

Spoiler:

Gohan: 200,000
-- Zenkai: 400,000

Kuririn: 75,000

Trunks Arc:

Spoiler:

Gohan: 400,000
Kuririn: 100,000
Tenshinhan: 60,000
Yamcha: 40,000
Chaoz: 10,000

Android Arc:

Spoiler:

Gohan: 4,000,000
Kuririn: 500,000
Tenshinhan: 300,000
Yamcha: 200,000
Chaoz: 40,000

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Clearly useless against an army of 1 - 5,000 fodder.

I'd imagine everyone's battle power is scaled down in that movie if Piccolo and Gohan are weaker than 1,300,000.

Heck, Piccolo struggled with someone Zarbon tier.

[ahill1]

Freeza arc

Kuririn 215,000

Trunks arc

Yamcha 150,000

Tenshinhan 200,000

Kuririn 250,000

Android arc

Yamcha 4,000,000

Tenshinhan 5,000,000

Kuririn 6,000,000

[Khin]

Super Saiyan Forms:

Super Saiyan = 50x Base
-Super Saiyan Grade 2 = 75x Base
-Super Saiyan Grade 3 = 100x Base

Super Saiyan 2 = 100x Base

Super Saiyan 3 = 400x Base

Super Saiyan God = 750,000x Base
-Super Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan = 2x God Base

Fusion Multiplyers:

Fusion Dance = (A+B)x10

Potara Fusion = (A+B)x50(x250 if the users are rivals)

Freeza's Tranformations:
2nd Form = 2.264150943396226x 1rst Form
3rd Form = 4.528301886792453x 1rst Form
Final Form = 226.4150943396226x 1rst Form
Golden Form = 5x Final Form
(Note:This is based on Freeza's First Form on Namek being 530,000 with his 2nd Form being 1,200,000 with his 3rd Form being 2,400,000 and his Final Form being 120,000,000)

Dragon Ball Super - Battle of Gods Saga

Spoiler:

Gohan
Base = 50,000,000
SSJ = 2,500,000,000
Mystic = 500,000,000,000

Goten
Base = 38,000,000
SSJ = 1,900,000,000

Trunks
Base = 40,000,000
SSJ = 2,000,000,000

Gotenks
Base = 780,000,000
SSJ = 39,000,000,000
SSJ2 = 78,000,000,000
SSJ3 = 312,000,000,000

Mr.Buu
=10,000,000,000

Vegeta
Base= 80,000,000
SSJ = 4,000,000,000
SSJ2 = 8,000,000,000
Enraged = 2,500,000,000,000

Goku
Base= 80,000,000
SSJ = 4,000,000,000
SSJ2 = 8,000,000,000
SSJ3 = 32,000,000,000
SSG = 60,000,000,000,000
-Base = 30,000,000,000,000
-SSJ = 54,000,000,000,000

Vegetto
Base = 40,000,000,000
SSJ = 2,000,000,000,000
SSJ2 = 4,000,000,000,000
SSJ3 = 16,000,000,000,000

Beerus
Initial = 2,000,000,000,000
10% = 10,000,000,000,000
70% = 70,000,000,000,000
Full Power = 100,000,000,000,000

Whis
=150,000,000,000,000

Dragon Ball Z : Resurrection 'F'

Spoiler:

Freeza's Soldiers
Low Ranks = 1,000
High Ranks = 10,000
Elites = 25,000

Master Roshi
Normal = 1,500
Buff = 2,500

Jaco
= 10,000

Tenshinhan
= 400,000

Krillin
= 500,000

Shisami
= 1,250,000,000

Piccolo
= 1,300,000,000
Tired = 1,200,000,000

Gohan
Base = 50,000,000
SSJ = 2,500,000,000

Vegeta
Base = 37,500,000,000,000
SSGSS = 75,000,000,000,000

Goku
Base = 37,500,000,000,000
SSGSS = 75,000,000,000,000

Freeza
1rst Form = 75,083,333,333.33335
2nd Form = 170,000,000,000
3rd Form = 339,979,727,500.0001
Final Form = 17,000,000,000,000
Golden Form = 85,000,000,000,000
-Tired = 42,000,000,000,000

[Blackstripe]

Nice list overall.

Might want to include Golden Freeza's "tired" power level, too.

[ZombieVito]

I'm still waiting to see how they handle Base Godku in Super to post my updated numbers for it.

[DanielSSJ]

I've only seen official sources stating it was addition. Do you have a citation that states otherwise?

I'm looking at the manga right now, and Goku says "...But when they do it (fuse) they become way stronger than the sum of their parts." So the fusion is more than just simple addition.

[h0kuten]

I've only seen official sources stating it was addition. Do you have a citation that states otherwise?

I'm looking at the manga right now, and Goku says "...But when they do it (fuse) they become way stronger than the sum of their parts." So the fusion is more than just simple addition.

How does it mean fusion is more than simple addition? It just means their combined strength is way stronger than each of them individually.

[Kamiccolo9]

I've only seen official sources stating it was addition. Do you have a citation that states otherwise?

I'm looking at the manga right now, and Goku says "...But when they do it (fuse) they become way stronger than the sum of their parts." So the fusion is more than just simple addition.

How does it mean fusion is more than simple addition? It just means their combined strength is way stronger than each of them individually.

No, it means both of them together. "More than the sum of their parts" literally means "more than those things put together."

[h0kuten]

How does it mean fusion is more than simple addition? It just means their combined strength is way stronger than each of them individually.

No, it means both of them together. "More than the sum of their parts" literally means "more than those things put together."

The definition of sum is 'the whole part'. So, this means their combined strength is greater than the whole of each fighter individually.