Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

How does it mean fusion is more than simple addition? It just means their combined strength is way stronger than each of them individually.

No, it means both of them together. "More than the sum of their parts" literally means "more than those things put together."

The definition of sum is 'the whole part'. So, this means their combined strength is greater than the whole of each fighter individually.

Is English not your first language?

[dbzfan7]

Can't we just all be friends? It's unofficial power levels. There's no real answer to these and they are as bullshit as ever now a days. I just stick to tiers.

[Captain Space]

The phrase "greater than the sum of its parts" is used to mean "A and B mixed together make a higher total than A + B".

[h0kuten]

The phrase "greater than the sum of its parts" is used to mean "A and B mixed together make a higher total than A + B".

That may be so but Dragonball Super made it quite clear Goku is above Gohan at Super Saiyan 3. Beerus states the most fun he had before fighting the Z-Fighters was Goku. Having 'fun', is an alternative for 'strong' in Dragonball Z.

Gotenks can be stronger than the kids put together but he is still weaker than Goku Ssj3.

[LightBing]

For fun, I made this list to illustrate that the power level jumps in Super, are common in Dragon Ball.

Using a minimalist scale to mirror what Mr Toriyama gave regarding Beerus, Whis and SSJG Goku.

Perfect Cell - 17000
SSJ Goku - 1000
100% Freeza - 900
Kaioken x20 Goku - 500
50% Freeza - 450
Kaioken x10 Goku - 250
True Form - 45
Third Form Freeza - 30
Base Goku - 25
Second Form Freeza - 15,50
First Form Freeza - 5,30
Ginyu - 1,20
Nail - 0,42
Kiwi - 0,18
Nappa - 0,07
Raditz - 0,012
Kame Sennin - 0,001

[Noah]

Oficially Raditz have 1200 PL or 1500 PL? And about Nappa, 4000 PL or 7000 PL?

[Kamiccolo9]

Oficially Raditz have 1200 PL or 1500 PL? And about Nappa, 4000 PL or 7000 PL?

Officially, 1,500 and 4,000, respectively.

There's another source that I've Kaboom bring up that has Nappa at 4,500, too.

[LightBing]

The only official numbers I use are those that appear in the manga. I actually have Nappa at 6800, I just rounded it up for that list.

[h0kuten]

I'd illustrate the jumps in Dragonball Super accordingly:

Majin Boo Saga

Goku
~Base 1
~Ssj 50
~Ssj2 100
~Ssj3 400

Fat Boo
~Full Power 150 (2.5x Teen Gohan)

Gotenks Pre-ROST
~Base 90
~Ssj 180 (stronger than Fat Boo)

Gotenks Post-ROST
~Base 150 (About even with Boo even in their normal form)
~Ssj 300
~Ssj2 600
~Ssj3 2,400

Ultimate Gohan
~Full Power 3,600

Super Boo
~Full Power 2,100

Bootenks
~Full Power 4,500

Boohan
~Full Power 5,700

Vegetto
~Base 3,000
~Ssj 15,000
[~Ssj2 30,000]
[~Ssj3 120,000]

Dragonball Super

Goku
~Base 10
~Ssj 500
~Ssj2 1,000
~Ssj3 4,000

Ultimate Gohan
~Full Power 3,600

Raging Vegeta
~Initial 750,000
~Gallic Gun 1,500,000

Vegetto (Gets the same increases as his counter-parts)
~Base 30,000
~Ssj 150,000
~Ssj2 300,000
~Ssj3 1,200,000

Goku SSJG
~80% 9,600,000
~100% 12,000,000

Beerus
~10% 2,000,000
~50% 10,000,000
~70% 14,000,000
~100% 20,000,000

Whiss
~Full Power 30,000,000

[Captain Space]

The phrase "greater than the sum of its parts" is used to mean "A and B mixed together make a higher total than A + B".

That may be so but Dragonball Super made it quite clear Goku is above Gohan at Super Saiyan 3. Beerus states the most fun he had before fighting the Z-Fighters was Goku. Having 'fun', is an alternative for 'strong' in Dragonball Z.

Gotenks can be stronger than the kids put together but he is still weaker than Goku Ssj3.

He can indeed, and it's very true that Super is following the trend of bigging up Goku (and Vegeta) in relation to the kids.

[Doctor.]

I'd illustrate the jumps in Dragonball Super accordingly:

-snip-

And why are the SS multipliers for Gotenks different than the others? Seems completely arbitrary to me just to keep Goku on top.

[h0kuten]

I'd illustrate the jumps in Dragonball Super accordingly:

-snip-

And why are the SS multipliers for Gotenks different than the others? Seems completely arbitrary to me just to keep Goku on top.

I can just make Gotenks Ssj multipliers bigger and keep Goku on top regardless.

[supercat]

I rarely ever take GT power levels seriously, but a few instances in the Super 17 arc (namely the side battle that took place in hell) really piqued my interest.

First and foremost, I've seen several discussions with conflicting opinions pertaining to where Z's most iconic villains stood during their brief rampage in hell. I was once under the impression that Frieza had not progressed, but after observantly watching the fight once more, I'm going to have to retract my previous speculation. As a matter of fact, I'm inclined to believe that the galactic tyrant had surpassed his biological clone. Why? Well, if we pay close attention to the intricate details of the battle, we'll see that Frieza does the vast majority, if not all of the rushing in, and is the only one of the two that actually manages to engage in hand to hand combat with Goku. Furthermore, the kid Saiyan seemed to be struggling a tad bit during these brief scuffles --he even failed to connect his counterattack.

When all is said and done, it's unlikely the two of them powered up to any notable degree as they were completely schooled by Kid Goku (who in his base form should be no higher than Kid Buu-tier). I'd say anywhere in the same realm of strength as Majin Buu (against Majin Vegeta) is an appropriate tier to place the villainous duo. We also have to take into consideration that the two of them along with the other band of baddies were basically forced to submit to Piccolo.

Discuss away!

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I still keep Cell above Freeza, status quo. At best, I'd settle for them being equal.

As for their battle powers, I place them both stronger than Hyper Mega Rild, who I have stronger than Base Rild who I have stronger than Gohan-Boo.

[supercat]

I still keep Cell above Freeza, status quo. At best, I'd settle for them being equal.

As for their battle powers, I place them both stronger than Hyper Mega Rild, who I have stronger than Base Rild who I have stronger than Gohan-Boo.

I used to think the same thing, but the fight itself depicts Frieza as the superior of the two (at least that's how I've perceived it). Knowing Cell, if he legitimately had something up his sleeve (excluding absorption) he would have jumped right in for the sake of earning bragging rights.

I personally have Hyper Mega Rild somewhere in the same realm of power as Super Buu (possibly Buutenks on the higher end of the spectrum), and Base Rild more or less on par with either Kid Buu or Mr. Buu. As for the villainous duo, they don't necessarily have to be above the machine mutant in my opinion. In any case, their placement isn't as relevant as Piccolo's, considering how the entire place presumably fell victim to the his authority.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

I can't recall at the moment, but wasn't Cell talking condescendingly to Freeza and laughing when Goku was schooling him?

You think the gap between Base Rild and Hyper Mega Rild is that gargantuan? From Innocent/Pure Boo level all the way to Evil Boo+ levels?

Freeza and Cell don't have to be above Rild, it's just my opinion that they are.

[supercat]

I can't recall at the moment, but wasn't Cell talking condescendingly to Freeza and laughing when Goku was schooling him?

You think the gap between Base Rild and Hyper Mega Rild is that gargantuan? From Innocent/Pure Boo level all the way to Evil Boo+ levels?

Freeza and Cell don't have to be above Rild, it's just my opinion that they are.

Yes, Cell did disdainfully ridicule the tyrant; but after carefully examining the fight, it's hard for me not to deem the latter as the stronger of the two.

Well if Base Rild was a notch or two above Mr. Buu then Final Form Rild barely falling short of Super Buu-tier is quite plausible, as Goku needed SSJ to be on fighting terms with the machine mutant's second form. If the comparison was made to Kid Buu, then putting Hyper Mega Rild closer to Buutenks-tier (a tad bit lower) may be more appropriate. That said, keeping him in the same neighborhood as Super Buu would suffice as well.

[ahill1]

Raditz arc

Spoiler:

Roshi 139

Chaozu 145

Yamcha 177

Tenshinhan 250

Mr Popo 275

Kami 310

Piccolo
~Weighted 322
~W/o weights 408
~Makankôsappô 1,330

Son Goku
~Weighted 334
~W/o weights 416
~Kamehame-ha 924

Raditz 1,250

Enma 2,500

Kaio 3,500

Vegeta arc

Spoiler:

Yajirobe 800

Chaozu 1,000

Son Gohan 1,200

Saibaiman 1,200

Yamcha 1,350

Kuririn 1,500

Tenshinhan 1,800

Piccolo 2,250

Son Gohan ( Enranged ) 2,500
~Masenko 2,800

Nappa
~Initial 3,000
~Full power 8,000

Son Goku
~base 8,050
~Kaioken 16,100
~Kaioken x3 24,150
~Kaioken x4 32,200

Vegeta 18,000
~Oozaru - less than 180,000

Namek arc

Spoiler:

Kuririn
~Weighted 1,500
~W/o weights 1,750

Son Gohan 1,500

Nameks warriors 3,000

Cui 18,000

Dodoria 20,000

Zarbon
~Initial 22,000
~Monster 28,000

Vegeta
~Initial 24,000
~Zenkai 30,000

Ginyu arc part 1

Spoiler:

Gurd 9,000

Kuririn 13,000

Son Gohan 14,000

Vegeta 30,000

Recoome 40,000

Butta 40,000

Jheese 40,000

Ginyu
~Initial 66,000
~Full power 120,000

Son Goku
~Vs ginyus 66,000
~Full power 90,000
~Kaioken 180,000

Ginyu arc part 2

Spoiler:

Ginyu-Goku 23,000

Kuririn 23,000

Son Gohan 26,000

Jheese 40,000

Nail 42,000

Vegeta 52,500

Freeza arc part 1

Spoiler:

Kuririn 215,000

Son Gohan 250,000

Piccolo
~Weighted 275,000
~W/o weights 300,000

Vegeta 500,000

Freeza ( 1st form ) 530,000

Freeza arc part 2

Spoiler:

Son Gohan 250,000
~Enranged 1,000,000

Freeza ( 2nd form )
~Initial 1,060,000
~Vs Gohan 1,200,000
~Full power 1,400,000

Piccolo ( post fusion w/Nail )
~Weighted 1,250,000
~W/o weights 1,500,000

Son Gohan ( Zenkai ) 500,000
~Enranged 1,600,000
~Masenko 1,800,000

Freeza ( 3rd form ) 1,850,000

Vegeta ( Zenkai ) 2,400,000

Freeza ( final form )
~Initial 2,400,000
~Speedup 3,250,000
~50% 70,000,000
~70% 98,000,000
~100% 140,000,000

Son Goku
~base 3,000,000
~Kaioken x10 30,000,000
~Kaioken x20 60,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 150,000,000

Trunks arc

Spoiler:

Yamcha 150,000

Tenshinhan 200,000

Kuririn 250,000

Son Gohan 500,000

Piccolo 4,000,000

Vegeta 4,400,000

King Cold 75,000,000

Mecha Freeza
~Suppressed 80,000,000
~Full power ( unseen ) 160,000,000

Future Trunks
~base 4,800,000
~Super Saiyajin 240,000,000

Son Goku
~base 5,600,000
~Super Saiyajin 280,000,000

Android arc

Spoiler:

Yamcha 4,000,000

Tenshinhan 5,000,000

Kuririn 6,000,000

Son Gohan 8,000,000

Android 19 260,000,000
~Post absorptions 325,000,000

Android 20 290,000,000
~Post absorptions 350,000,000

Piccolo 400,000,000

Future Trunks
~base 9,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 450,000,000

Son Goku
~base 9,600,000
~Super Saiyajin 480,000,000
~Super Saiyajin sick 336,000,000

Vegeta
~base 10,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 500,000,000

Android 18 720,000,000

Android 17 800,000,000

Cell arc

Spoiler:

Imperfect Cell ( Ginger Town ) 600,000,000

Android 17 800,000,000

Kamiccolo
~Weighted 720,000,000
~W/o weights 800,000,000

Imperfect Cell ( Post absorptions ) 1,600,000,000

Semi Cell 3,250,000,000
~Full power 4,550,000,000

Vegeta
~base 65,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 3,250,000,000
~Super Saiyajin Dai Ni Dankai 6,500,000,000

Future Trunks
~base 60,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 3,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin Dai Ni Dankai 6,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin Dai San Dankai 12,000,000,000

Perfect Cell ( warm up ) 10,000,000,000

Son Goku
~base 720,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( "about half" ~ 52% ) 19,000,000,000

Cell Games

Spoiler:

Android 16 1,600,000,000

Kamiccolo 20,000,000,000

Future Trunks
~base 444,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 22,200,000,000

Vegeta
~base 450,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 22,500,000,000

Cell Jr 23,500,000,000

Son Goku
~Super Saiyajin ( warm up ) 10,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 100% ) 36,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( Vs Cell Jr ) 15,000,000,000

Perfect Cell
~Warm up 10,000,000,000
~Vs Goku 40,500,000,000
~Vs Gohan 54,000,000,000
~Full power 72,000,000,000
~Zenkai 102,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~base 1,080,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 54,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 2 ) 108,000,000,000

Buu saga

25th Budokai

Spoiler:

Yamcha 4,000,000

Kuririn 6,000,000

Android 18 720,000,000

Kamiccolo 22,500,000,000

Son Goten
~base 720,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 36,000,000,000

Trunks
~base 750,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 37,500,000,000

Son Gohan
~base 810,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 40,500,000,000

Babidi arc

Spoiler:

Kaioshin 500,000,000

Pui Pui 600,000,000

Yakon 1,200,000,000

Dabura 40,500,000,000

Son Gohan Super Saiyajin 40,500,000,000

Vegeta
~base 960,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 48,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 2 ) 96,000,000,000

Fat Buu arc

Spoiler:

Son Goku
~base 1,200,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 60,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 2 ) 120,000,000,000

Majin Vegeta
~Super Saiyajin 60,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 2 ) 120,000,000,000

Fat Buu 400,000,000,000

Son Goku Super Saiyajin ( 3 ) 480,000,000,000

Gotenks
~base 132,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 600,000,000,000

Fusion arc

Spoiler:

Fat Buu 400,000,000,000

Good Buu 160,000,000,000

Evil Buu 240,000,000,000

Super Buu 360,000,000,000,000

Son Goten ( Post rosat )
~base 960,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 48,000,000,000

Trunks ( Post rosat )
~base 960,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 48,000,000,000

Gotenks ( Post rosat )
~base 1,000,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 50,000,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 3 ) 400,000,000,000,000

Mystic Gohan 540,000,000,000,000

Buutenks 760,000,000,000,000

Buuhan 900,000,000,000,000

Vegetto
~base 54,000,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 2,700,000,000,000,000

Buff Buu 450,000,000,000,000

Kid Buu arc

Spoiler:

Vegeta
~base 1,200,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 60,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 2 ) 120,000,000,000

Good Buu 160,000,000,000

Kid Buu 468,000,000,000

Son Goku
~base 1,200,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 60,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 3 ) 480,000,000,000

End of Z arc

Spoiler:

Yamcha 4,000,000

Kuririn 6,000,000

Kamiccolo 27,000,000,000

Mr Buu 160,000,000,000

Uub ( Enranged ) 468,000,000,000

Vegeta
~base 448,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 22,400,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 2 ) 44,800,000,000,000

Son Goku
~base 480,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin 24,000,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 2 ) 48,000,000,000,000
~Super Saiyajin ( 3 ) 192,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan 540,000,000,000,000

[h0kuten]

I can't recall at the moment, but wasn't Cell talking condescendingly to Freeza and laughing when Goku was schooling him?

You think the gap between Base Rild and Hyper Mega Rild is that gargantuan? From Innocent/Pure Boo level all the way to Evil Boo+ levels?

Freeza and Cell don't have to be above Rild, it's just my opinion that they are.

You forgot Dragonball Super, Battle of Gods, Fukkatsu no F & Yo Son Goku. Because of these new movies your EOZ levels are inaccurate.

[ahill1]

I can't recall at the moment, but wasn't Cell talking condescendingly to Freeza and laughing when Goku was schooling him?

You think the gap between Base Rild and Hyper Mega Rild is that gargantuan? From Innocent/Pure Boo level all the way to Evil Boo+ levels?

Freeza and Cell don't have to be above Rild, it's just my opinion that they are.

You forgot Dragonball Super, Battle of Gods, Fukkatsu no F & Yo Son Goku. Because of these new movies your EOZ levels are horribly inaccurate.

My power levels?