Buu Saga Info

[Kamiccolo9]

Buu was having the time of his life fighting Goku. He never stopped smiling, and he was never seen powering up.

And, this way, it offers a way to explain Goku's "lie" to Piccolo.
Since Buu never powered up, Goku would know that he wasn't at full power during the fight. And "Buu's ki is a lie," meaning that Goku would probably be unable to guess it. So he wasn't lieing when he told Piccolo that he wasn't sure if he'd be able to defeat Buu.
As for what he says in the Pure Buu fight, Goku was aware of Buu being split into Mr. Buu and Pure Evil Buu. Since Fat Buu powers up when he's angry, and this was the time when he was angriest, it stands to reason that he was at his peak power right before he split. Goku could have sensed that, and realized that he could beat him.

[Mjb1985]

Buu looked pretty pissed at Vegeta.

Initial Buu - A power Gohan at his true power can probably defeat.
Buu Power Up 1 - Superior to the Ssj2's , but Vegeta and Goku teaming up can beat him.
Buu Power Up 2 - Seems to be his limit.

Buu got really pissed at Vegeta but didn't seem to power up after that.

So I think Buu's second power up should be his full power. There was no note of Buu losing power when he calmed down, his anger just released his natural power.

[Kamiccolo9]

Buu looked pretty pissed at Vegeta.

Initial Buu - A power Gohan at his true power can probably defeat.
Buu Power Up 1 - Superior to the Ssj2's , but Vegeta and Goku teaming up can beat him.
Buu Power Up 2 - Seems to be his limit.

Buu got really pissed at Vegeta but didn't seem to power up after that.

So I think Buu's second power up should be his full power. There was no note of Buu losing power when he calmed down, his anger just released his natural power.

True, but there wasn't a reason for him to be angry after that. He never got angry at Goku, and nothing happened to make him angry after that. Until Mr. Satan was shot. And then, it's explicitly mentioned that Buu's evil began to swell up. I see Buu's powerups as him drawing on more and more of Pure Buu's power, and when the evil side became too strong, it emerged.
Oh, and the puppy got shot, but he quickly calmed down after that.

[Mjb1985]

Buu got super angry against Vegeta after all of his power ups were done. That's when he hurt Vegeta's arm, Badibi needed his shield and Vegeta came to the conclusion that he needed to do the suicidal blast.

[Kamiccolo9]

Buu got super angry against Vegeta after all of his power ups were done. That's when he hurt Vegeta's arm, Badibi needed his shield and Vegeta came to the conclusion that he needed to do the suicidal blast.

I don't know, to me it looks like he powered up again for that attack. He got mad, and unleashed the strongest attack he had done so far.
I don't really think we're getting anywhere with this though. Agree to disagree?

[Mjb1985]

Sure we can do that but I just have a couple or more points on this topic if you don't mind.

Buu's power ups and power level where noted every time, was his power noted to have changed when you suggested?

[Kamiccolo9]

Sure we can do that but I just have a couple or more points on this topic if you don't mind.

Buu's power ups and power level where noted every time, was his power noted to have changed when you suggested?

Not directly, but if you look at the panels, everyone is freaking out at this point. Piccolo, Goten, Trunks, Krillin, Vegeta, and Babidi are all shaking. The only thing being said is Krillin going "Oh shit," and Babidi panicking going "what is he doing?"
And Toryama may have felt it redundant at this point to mention him powering up. He's already gone out of his way to explicitly mention it twice during this fight that Buu's power skyrockets when he's mad, maybe he felt we should expect it by now?

[Mjb1985]

Well that makes sense considering Buu is creating a super strong amplified attack.

[Kamiccolo9]

Well that makes sense considering Buu is creating a super strong amplified attack.

And would that not constitute powering up? Instead of getting stronger, he used the boost for an attack. We see people powering up for Kamehamehas all the time. Same thing.

[Mjb1985]

I think people can tell the difference when you are powering up your battle power and when you are powering up your ki blast. Raditz would be the only one perplexed by this lol.

[Kamiccolo9]

I think people can tell the difference when you are powering up your battle power and when you are powering up your ki blast. Raditz would be the only one perplexed by this lol.

What's the difference though? For both cases the user is powering up. The only difference is what that power is used for.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Well, when Gohan powered-up his Masenko against Nappa, Krillin commented on his power and wondered if it was Gohan. Something they often do when someone reveals a huge amount of power they weren't aware of.

So, like Kami, I'd like to think increasing your Battle Power and powering-up for an attack are one in the same.

[Mjb1985]

In terms of ki sensing yes. You sense a ki whether its rising or not. But raising your ki through ki amplification doesn't mean people aren't aware of it. These are expert ki sensors, they know what the difference is between power level and ki amplification.

[Draken]

In terms of ki sensing yes. You sense a ki whether its rising or not. But raising your ki through ki amplification doesn't mean people aren't aware of it. These are expert ki sensors, they know what the difference is between power level and ki amplification.

No they don't. Power levels is something they made up to gauge ones battle power and ki. When they sense a someone's ki or a powerful attack, they don't go "whoa, his attack is even stronger than him!" They go "holy shit his power got so much stronger, look at that attack".

[Mjb1985]

Vegeta still is taking about battle powers in the Buu Saga. They were able to differentiate the fighter's ki level and his attack level since the King Piccolo Saga.

[Draken]

Vegeta still is taking about battle powers in the Buu Saga. They were able to differentiate the fighter's ki level and his attack level since the King Piccolo Saga.

Because he's a Saiyan who was in Freeza's army, he was born under the knowledge of battle powers. That's like saying Fahrenheit or Celcius are universal terms that would work on any sentient life form in the universe. It's not, it's just what Vegeta (and as a consequence, the Earthlings) are used to. And I don't recall them every saying "whoa his attack is stronger than his battle power" at any time during KP.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think Vegeta let go of the "Battle Power" talk by the Cell saga. He last uses the term when Semi-Cell releases his full-power. And Vegeta's way of using it was synonymous to Chi, anyway.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Battle power is a measurement of Ki....

[Mjb1985]

I'm just saying I think they can tell when someone is charging up for a blast or powering up. You guys disagree?

[Bussani]

I'm just saying I think they can tell when someone is charging up for a blast or powering up. You guys disagree?

I'm not sure I can say that I agree or disagree, as such. I can't think of anything in the story that makes it seem like they treat the two any differently. I thought it just felt like ki getting bigger to them either way, to be honest, but that's just how I always interpreted it.