Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

I'm mad the two Base theory is still a thing, lol. Does this actually have anything to do with the current saga that I'm unaware of?

The Super manga all but confirmed the two base theory, so now we have a problem where a form seems to exist in the manga but not the anime.

[Chiki]

I'm mad the two Base theory is still a thing, lol. Does this actually have anything to do with the current saga that I'm unaware of?

The Super manga all but confirmed the two base theory, so now we have a problem where a form seems to exist in the manga but not the anime.

Indeed. The only difference between the manga and anime is that SSG in the anime is invisible.

I highly doubt that Cabba and Frost and Magetta are all gods in the anime but not in the manga!

I think Toyotaro isn't pleased with how secretive the anime is about the two base theory, and so he represents it using SSG instead of making it invisible. It's obvious that the two base theory is true at this point.

[dbzfan7]

At this point, shouldn't we make a new thread for the Super manga battle powers?

Nah I think we can just distinguish the two here. Seems like an unnecessary thread.

Also what the hell is up with the all the fighting. Guys it's a childrens show. It's not worth getting mad about and fighting others on. Have fun theory crafting, and enjoy the good, and criticize the bad. Just don't turn it into a fight.

[TheMikado]

At this point, shouldn't we make a new thread for the Super manga battle powers?

Nah I think we can just distinguish the two here. Seems like an unnecessary thread.

I would say it depends on how much farther they diverge.

[Bullza]

Then what's your explanation for Base Goku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SS3 Gotenks and SS Goku >= SS Trunks?

Let's hear it!

There isn't one. The episode hasn't happened yet, nobody knows what the circumstances are or what might be revealed.

People are only using this theory now just for convenience. He has God Ki switched on when it makes sense but then once something doesn't match up with expectations then now he must have it turned off. Him having it on against Frieza, off against Frost, on against Beerus, off against Trunks etc isn't going to be the case without any explanation because how would anyone figure it out if it's never been brought up before?

[Chiki]

Then what's your explanation for Base Goku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SS3 Gotenks and SS Goku >= SS Trunks?

Let's hear it!

There isn't one. The episode hasn't happened yet, nobody knows what the circumstances are or what might be revealed.

People are only using this theory now just for convenience. He has God Ki switched on when it makes sense but then once something doesn't match up with expectations then now he must have it turned off. Him having it on against Frieza, off against Frost, on against Beerus, off against Trunks etc isn't going to be the case without any explanation because how would anyone figure it out if it's never been brought up before?

What are you going to say when Base Goku is forced to use SS against SS Mirai Trunks, and what will you say Base Goku does better against Goku Black than Trunks ever did? I'm 100% sure that Goku is going to be forced to use SS against Trunks (we've already seen it) so there's no point in denying it.

Next ep, you'll be forced to say: Base Goku >>>>> SS3 Gotenks >>>> SS Mirai Trunks >>>> Base Goku. Which is self-contradictory. I'd much rather take the two base theory for granted than come up with a self-contradictory theory for power levels.

Bad writing. Super has a lot of bad writing that has nothing to do with the two base theory. If the two base theory is false. then Piccolo's power up was never mentioned either. Toyotaro probably thinks the same thing; that's why he uses SSG to show Base with SSG power.

[Kaboom]

Let's try to keep things shonen and respectful, guys. Pretty much anything goes in terms of theories for a series with as many unanswered questions as Super. There's zero need to talk down to or be snippy with people for trying to make some sense out of all the silliness.

[Bullza]

What are you going to say when Base Goku is forced to use SS against SS Mirai Trunks, and what will you say Base Goku does better against Goku Black than Trunks ever did? I'm 100% sure that Goku is going to be forced to use SS against Trunks (we've already seen it) so there's no point in denying it.

Then if Trunks forces Goku to turn into a Super Saiyan then the most simple explanation is that it is because Trunks has grown powerful enough for him to be able to do so.

Base Goku did better against Hit than Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta ever did and there was a certain reason for it, so it happens with Black then there might be a certain reason for it once again.

Black will not be a weakling, he will surely be a match for Goku to some extent and he did not instantly pulverise Trunks. Not in the same way that SSJB Vegeta one shotted Cabba.

[TheMikado]

What are you going to say when Base Goku is forced to use SS against SS Mirai Trunks, and what will you say Base Goku does better against Goku Black than Trunks ever did? I'm 100% sure that Goku is going to be forced to use SS against Trunks (we've already seen it) so there's no point in denying it.

Then if Trunks forces Goku to turn into a Super Saiyan then the most simple explanation is that it is because Trunks has grown powerful enough for him to be able to do so.

Base Goku did better against Hit than Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta ever did and there was a certain reason for it, so it happens with Black then there might be a certain reason for it once again.

Black will not be a weakling, he will surely be a match for Goku to some extent and he did not instantly pulverise Trunks. Not in the same way that SSJB Vegeta one shotted Cabba.

Wait are we to the point where we are saying BASE Future Trunks is at/past SSJ3 Goku level without even getting God training and eating dog food of having a decent mentor/trainer after Gohan? Like wow.

[ekrolo2]

The fact of the matter is we're in GT land again, everyone who was tapped out by the Boo Saga (and make no mistake, they're fucking tapped out by the Boo Saga if you pay attention to how the power progression works) or before then just magically has an infinite amount of new potential they're tapping into out of nowhere or at ridiculous speeds.

[Chiki]

What are you going to say when Base Goku is forced to use SS against SS Mirai Trunks, and what will you say Base Goku does better against Goku Black than Trunks ever did? I'm 100% sure that Goku is going to be forced to use SS against Trunks (we've already seen it) so there's no point in denying it.

Then if Trunks forces Goku to turn into a Super Saiyan then the most simple explanation is that it is because Trunks has grown powerful enough for him to be able to do so.

Base Goku did better against Hit than Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta ever did and there was a certain reason for it, so it happens with Black then there might be a certain reason for it once again.

Black will not be a weakling, he will surely be a match for Goku to some extent and he did not instantly pulverise Trunks. Not in the same way that SSJB Vegeta one shotted Cabba.

Yes, I'm sure Base Trunks is strong enough to own SS3 Gotenks...

Base Vegeta didn't become strong enough to even beat Namek Frieza in the 7 year gap between the Cell Games arc and the Buu arc via gravity machine training. How can Trunks become stronger than SS3 Gotenks by doing the same training as Vegeta? It's just impossible.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Nothing is impossible. Besides, we don't know what Trunks doing was doing in the future.

[TheMikado]

The fact of the matter is we're in GT land again, everyone who was tapped out by the Boo Saga (and make no mistake, they're fucking tapped out by the Boo Saga if you pay attention to how the power progression works) or before then just magically has an infinite amount of new potential they're tapping into out of nowhere or at ridiculous speeds.

I don't want to make this a GT thread but I don't understand why everyone keeps saying this. GT wasn't even this bad in terms of power scaling and explanations. It had its moments but the power scaling never literally affected the narrative actively nor altered lore retroactively.

[TheMikado]

Nothing is impossible. Besides, we don't know what Trunks doing was doing in the future.

Sure they could also make Goku have a baby with Frieza dead ghost but that doesn't make it a good narrative. I think everyone is thinking of what's possible within the confines of actual coherent and decent storywriting,

[ekrolo2]

The fact of the matter is we're in GT land again, everyone who was tapped out by the Boo Saga (and make no mistake, they're fucking tapped out by the Boo Saga if you pay attention to how the power progression works) or before then just magically has an infinite amount of new potential they're tapping into out of nowhere or at ridiculous speeds.

I don't want to make this a GT thread but I don't understand why everyone keeps saying this. GT wasn't even this bad in terms of power scaling and explanations. It had its moments but the power scaling never literally affected the narrative actively nor altered lore retroactively.

GT is leagues above Super... but it has its own problems. A lot of characters are just a fucktillion amount times stronger for no reason (except Goku) when the Boo Saga has Goku and Vegeta, after 7 hard years of training barely become stronger than Gohan was at the Cell Games! And that's not even counting guys like Piccolo and the humans who were tapped out even sooner than that.

Super's essentially doing the same thing (and ignoring a Toriyama statement, funny thing how NO ONE brings this up where he too thinks everyone hit their plateau in BoG) with everyone having a ridiculous amount of potential out of nowhere and gaining insane levels of power thanks to said potential. I mean, if you applied Super's strength gains just to say Piccolo he'd murder stomp everyone in that.

[Bullza]

Wait are we to the point where we are saying BASE Future Trunks is at/past SSJ3 Goku level without even getting God training and eating dog food of having a decent mentor/trainer after Gohan? Like wow.

Not yet because we haven't seen the episode. If Trunks either in Base or Super Saiyan is able to put up a better fight against Goku again in Base or Super Saiyan than what SSJ3 Gotenks did against Copy Vegeta then yeah he'd have to be.

Yes, I'm sure Base Trunks is strong enough to own SS3 Gotenks...

You can't be though. Nine or Ten years have passed since we last saw Trunks. Nobody knows what happened with him. Could Cell Games Trunks own SSJ3 Gotenks? No. Could current Trunks own SSJ3 Gotenks? I dunno, maybe, maybe not. We'll see won't we. No point in jumping the gun.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Nothing is impossible. Besides, we don't know what Trunks doing was doing in the future.

Sure they could also make Goku have a baby with Frieza dead ghost but that doesn't make it a good narrative. I think everyone is thinking of what's possible within the confines of actual coherent and decent storywriting,

That's implying most of Super has actually had decent story-telling when it comes to power-scaling. It hasn't. Trunks being above Gotenks is hardly any different than most of what's already been shown. When you have to make-up things such as two Base theories, it shows the story isn't very coherent.

[ekrolo2]

I figured out how Gohan's gotten weaker but why everyone else has gotten stronger.

So, when Pan was conceived, Gohan's Ultimate form started to leak out across time itself, spreading to those closest to him like Pan, Piccolo, Freeza, Tagoma and Future Trunks! Allowing them all to attain the massive strength gains they all enjoy now.

[dbzfan7]

I figured out how Gohan's gotten weaker but why everyone else has gotten stronger.

So, when Pan was conceived, Gohan's Ultimate form started to leak out across time itself, spreading to those closest to him like Pan, Piccolo, Freeza, Tagoma and Future Trunks! Allowing them all to attain the massive strength gains they all enjoy now.

I kinda like my theory where Tori-bot lowers from the heavens, and kicks Gohan in the balls. He then sucks away his powers, and gives them to those he pleases, as well as his personality and quirks. Hence why there are characters with eerily similar personality, and there's situations you'd think would go to Gohan, but don't. I have discovered that Vegeta got his rage boosts. Freeza got prodigal status. Tagoma got a small piece of that from Freeza. Pan got early incredible power. His personality went to a number of people. Hence the cardboard we are left with . I have yet to figure out what the others might have gotten.

[supercat]

It's mind-boggling how people are trying to make sense out of every little aspect pertaining to power levels. Can you imagine how dull and rigid it would be if power levels really were restricted to a formula of some sort? I mean, attaching characters to a set number would not only hinder innovation, but make it exceptionally difficult to diversify battles and other scenes that even remotely involve strength.

I also find it hilarious how some people are implying that inconsistency in power levels is equivalent to bad writing.