Unpopular DB opinions

[Gog]

Ugly and over the top is exactly what I like about it. It's definitely an asspull, but the design fits. The design is over the top because the form itself is over the top. Not only has he found a form stronger than their natural maximum, but another form even beyond that? The concept itself is so absurd that it merits an equally absurd design.
And the ugly appearance suits his character, it wouldn't fit for someone like say Goku, but for evil bastards like the Cold family that's about right.

I think it works also as a successor to forms like 2, 3 and Cooler's fifth. They're all meant to look scary and intimidating in a more straightforward way. Even if they sacriice common sense to do it. Third form Freeza looks freaky as hell but his massive head that's almost the size of his chest is nothing but a big ass target for a good opponent to exploit. Fuck, Krillin could probably leave him permanently brain damaged if he cut off half of it.

Maybe Frieza's third form actually dramatically increases his intelligence, which is why he realized he needed to transform as soon as possible. Also, transforming erases all damage he takes so he could probably just go to his final form if he got part of his head sliced off.

That is certainly an interesting fan theory... Never heard it before.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Maybe Frieza's third form actually dramatically increases his intelligence, which is why he realized he needed to transform as soon as possible. Also, transforming erases all damage he takes so he could probably just go to his final form if he got part of his head sliced off.

That is certainly an interesting fan theory... Never heard it before.

He did deduce a lot of things while in that form. He realized that Gohan was a Saiyan, then thought that he could perhaps be Raditz' son which is honestly quite close to figuring out he's Goku's kid, and Frieza doesn't even know Goku exists. He also finds out that Dende was the one healing the heroes and immediately kills him once he transforms. And he transformed before Vegeta had the opportunity to complete his Zenkai and surpass him.

[Gog]

Maybe Frieza's third form actually dramatically increases his intelligence, which is why he realized he needed to transform as soon as possible. Also, transforming erases all damage he takes so he could probably just go to his final form if he got part of his head sliced off.

That is certainly an interesting fan theory... Never heard it before.

He did deduce a lot of things while in that form. He realized that Gohan was a Saiyan, then thought that he could perhaps be Raditz' son which is honestly quite close to figuring out he's Goku's kid, and Frieza doesn't even know Goku exists. He also finds out that Dende was the one healing the heroes and immediately kills him once he transforms. And he transformed before Vegeta had the opportunity to complete his Zenkai and surpass him.

It all makes sense now. But their may be another reason, Freeza when he's not blinded by rage or vengeance, is just a pretty smart guy? Could be I don't know

[ekrolo2]

Well since we're talking about designs, the whole "less is more" being automatically better mentality annoys me.

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Well since we're talking about designs, the whole "less is more" being automatically better mentality annoys me.

It's often true, though. I mean, obviously once you've taken it to the point of stick figures spouting one word sentences, the philosophy has gone too far. However, there are tons of examples from fans (and more recently, a certain unnamed Yamamuro) to demonstrate the principle. If you want to create something, doing it as conservatively and loosely is possible tends to work out better.

[TheUltimateNinja]

That is certainly an interesting fan theory... Never heard it before.

He did deduce a lot of things while in that form. He realized that Gohan was a Saiyan, then thought that he could perhaps be Raditz' son which is honestly quite close to figuring out he's Goku's kid, and Frieza doesn't even know Goku exists. He also finds out that Dende was the one healing the heroes and immediately kills him once he transforms. And he transformed before Vegeta had the opportunity to complete his Zenkai and surpass him.

It all makes sense now. But their may be another reason, Freeza when he's not blinded by rage or vengeance, is just a pretty smart guy? Could be I don't know

He was pretty dumb in his first and second forms, made a lot of retarded decisions.

[ABED]

Well since we're talking about designs, the whole "less is more" being automatically better mentality annoys me.

Not axiomatically, but I generally prefer minimalism. Can you think of an example where you liked the much more complicated design?

[Gog]

He did deduce a lot of things while in that form. He realized that Gohan was a Saiyan, then thought that he could perhaps be Raditz' son which is honestly quite close to figuring out he's Goku's kid, and Frieza doesn't even know Goku exists. He also finds out that Dende was the one healing the heroes and immediately kills him once he transforms. And he transformed before Vegeta had the opportunity to complete his Zenkai and surpass him.

It all makes sense now. But their may be another reason, Freeza when he's not blinded by rage or vengeance, is just a pretty smart guy? Could be I don't know

He was pretty dumb in his first and second forms, made a lot of retarded decisions.

Freeza suffered from Cell saga Vegeta-ism meaning that he was arrogant beyond all hope. Or prehaps every form makes him more smarter, blood thirstier, and arrogant, with the third form being the exception

[ABED]

What was he stupid about?

[TheUltimateNinja]

It all makes sense now. But their may be another reason, Freeza when he's not blinded by rage or vengeance, is just a pretty smart guy? Could be I don't know

He was pretty dumb in his first and second forms, made a lot of retarded decisions.

Freeza suffered from Cell saga Vegeta-ism meaning that he was arrogant beyond all hope. Or prehaps every form makes him more smarter, blood thirstier, and arrogant, with the third form being the exception

He was able to think clearly in his third form despite all of those character flaws, though. Maybe that huge head is dedicated to making the rational part of his brain much bigger.

[Gog]

He was pretty dumb in his first and second forms, made a lot of retarded decisions.

Freeza suffered from Cell saga Vegeta-ism meaning that he was arrogant beyond all hope. Or prehaps every form makes him more smarter, blood thirstier, and arrogant, with the third form being the exception

He was able to think clearly in his third form despite all of those character flaws, though. Maybe that huge head is dedicated to making the rational part of his brain much bigger.

He, he, he Each form makes him less rational except the third form, which allows him to keep his increased intellect, without the downgrades that come with forms similar to super saiyan. So ironically his most horrifying form, is the most logical, and least blood thirsty out of them all.

[ekrolo2]

Well since we're talking about designs, the whole "less is more" being automatically better mentality annoys me.

Not axiomatically, but I generally prefer minimalism. Can you think of an example where you liked the much more complicated design?

You mean in general or for DB? For in general, I'd say Batman and Captain America in live action are good examples.
Batman in TDK and his new JL suit look a lot better than his Begins & BvS suits for me. The Begins suit looks like a big chunk of rubber and in BvS he has no neck and they over padded his suit to the point of him looking like a total fatass. I'd even say TDK suit is the best one he's had in live action solely because it looks great in the day time and at night.
Captain America's more elaborate suits all look leagues better than his simpler Avengers one.

For Dragon Ball this is harder to pin point because the "less is more" approach is so prevalent but I'd say SS4 and Baby are good examples of how a more complicated design can look good.

[kinisking]

Well since we're talking about designs, the whole "less is more" being automatically better mentality annoys me.

Not axiomatically, but I generally prefer minimalism. Can you think of an example where you liked the much more complicated design?

You mean in general or for DB? For in general, I'd say Batman and Captain America in live action are good examples.
Batman in TDK and his new JL suit look a lot better than his Begins & BvS suits for me. The Begins suit looks like a big chunk of rubber and in BvS he has no neck and they over padded his suit to the point of him looking like a total fatass. I'd even say TDK suit is the best one he's had in live action solely because it looks great in the day time and at night.
Captain America's more elaborate suits all look leagues better than his simpler Avengers one.

For Dragon Ball this is harder to pin point because the "less is more" approach is so prevalent but I'd say SS4 and Baby are good examples of how a more complicated design can look good.

Does hit count as a complicated design? The extra detail in the outfit makes it that much better.

[Gog]

Well since we're talking about designs, the whole "less is more" being automatically better mentality annoys me.

Not axiomatically, but I generally prefer minimalism. Can you think of an example where you liked the much more complicated design?

You mean in general or for DB? For in general, I'd say Batman and Captain America in live action are good examples.
Batman in TDK and his new JL suit look a lot better than his Begins & BvS suits for me. The Begins suit looks like a big chunk of rubber and in BvS he has no neck and they over padded his suit to the point of him looking like a total fatass. I'd even say TDK suit is the best one he's had in live action solely because it looks great in the day time and at night.
Captain America's more elaborate suits all look leagues better than his simpler Avengers one.

For Dragon Ball this is harder to pin point because the "less is more" approach is so prevalent but I'd say SS4 and Baby are good examples of how a more complicated design can look good.

But unfortunately, Super saiyan four, Cell, and Freeza's first three forms are how its done right. Its just so easy to do it wrong, and Baby when you do the more approach wrong. You do it wrong

[MathSSJ]

Captain America's more elaborate suits all look leagues better than his simpler Avengers one.

For Dragon Ball this is harder to pin point because the "less is more" approach is so prevalent but I'd say SS4 and Baby are good examples of how a more complicated design can look good.

Cap's suits are getting to the point where they are too busy though, both in comics and the movies. His suit in Winter Soldier is still leagues better then anything and it's the simplest of them all.

SSj4 is a clusterfuck of colors that only kinda, sorta works with GT's desaturated and muddy palette. Baby, at least his first and third forms when possessing Vegeta and the mature form, has very simple designs.

[ekrolo2]

But unfortunately, Super saiyan four, Cell, and Freeza's first three forms are how its done right. Its just so easy to do it wrong, and Baby when you do the more approach wrong. You do it wrong

It's not any more or less screw up able than the minimalist approach, the ENTIRE new material is a good showcase of how a strict adherence to simplicity leads to nothing but rehashes. Blue, Rose, Golden Freeza, SSGod, Champa, Vados, and the two new guys we've got (the new G.O.D. isn't a cat but the Toriyama still gave him Beerus' clothes which don't look good on him and are lazy) are good examples of how trying to keep a minimalist approach can screw you up just as badly.

Cap's suits are getting to the point where they are too busy though, both in comics and the movies. His suit in Winter Soldier is still leagues better then anything and it's the simplest of them all.

SSj4 is a clusterfuck of colors that only kinda, sorta works with GT's desaturated and muddy palette. Baby, at least his first and third forms when possessing Vegeta and the mature form, has very simple designs.

Caps WS suit is fairly detailed, probably one of his most detailed suits in the movies thus far. The simplest one is his Avengers suit and it looks like shit, I'd go so far as to say that outfit was one of the prime reasons no one liked him prior to WS.

Baby's later designs are what I was referring too, they're complicated but look good. 4s primary color palette is black and red and that usually works, having it be all golden would make more in-universe sense but the problem with that is that it'd be all yellow.

[Gog]

It's not any more or less screw up able than the minimalist approach, the ENTIRE new material is a good showcase of how a strict adherence to simplicity leads to nothing but rehashes. Blue, Rose, Golden Freeza, SSGod, Champa, Vados, and the two new guys we've got (the new G.O.D. isn't a cat but the Toriyama still gave him Beerus' clothes which don't look good on him and are lazy) are good examples of how trying to keep a minimalist approach can screw you up just as badly.

I agree with you both approach's can screw you in the arse Super saiyan god goku does have some slight changes, his eyes are red, his physic is smaller, and his hair is red. SSB total rehash, would be a fools errand to argue against that and super saiyan rose at the very least has grey eyes, sill rehashes (noticing a trend with the saiyans here? Do you too?).

But only three of those designs support your argument. Golden Freeza was actually had quite a few difference's to Freeza I'll show them too you, for comparison sake, and to also shut everyone the fuck up who says its a re-skin.

[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

As you can see here, Freeza is more muscular than he was in his finial form, his gems are also smaller, he's also lost the gems on his shoulders, he has the super saiyan three brows, and he's gold. Its not a rehash form, using it is hurting your argument. I'd even say theirs more difference's than super saiyan with this form.

Champa? You mean this guy?
[spoiler][/spoiler] Rehash of his brother?
Rehash of this guy?


Their brothers, their apart of the same race! In fact theirs a shit ton of difference's between the two in their designs. Your reaching here

Vados?
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[spoiler][/spoiler]
Oh come on they are literally brother and sister? And even then the difference's are there, your just reaching now.

You fucking kidding, (my patience is running out sorry, just righting a story while doing this, hope you'll forgive ) you complain about how, his fucking suit, you complain about the fact that he's wearing the god of destruction suit.

Fucking hell, then are you going to complain that Nappa wearing the same suit as Vegeta was uncreative?

[ekrolo2]

You fucking kidding, (my patience is running out sorry, just righting a story while doing this, hope you'll forgive ) you complain about how, his fucking suit, you complain about the fact that he's wearing the god of destruction suit.

Fucking hell, then are you going to complain that Nappa wearing the same suit as Vegeta was uncreative?

SSGod changing the physique and eyes (barely) makes it slightly less shitty than Blue and Rose in the originality department but that's like saying a switch blade to the balls is better than a butcher's knife. Same thing with Golden Freeza, minor alterations exist but it still is majoritively just a paint job of final form Freeza.

And fuck the brother & sister argument. Toriyama didn't make their designs and personalities the same because of the twin universes concept, he MADE the twin universes concept specifically so he wouldn't have to come up with an actual design. He just made fat Beerus (and make no mistake, personality wise Champa fucking IS the same person as Beerus) and chick Whis. It's the same reason for why the Grand Priest is the father of all the angels: that way Toriyama can make 12 copies of Whis and he can handwave it "well they're all family!"

Saying Champa and Vados are "original designs" is like me writing about a British spy who works for MI6, drinks lots of booze, slips with everyone woman on the planet called Bames Jond and saying its an original character.

Nappa and Vegeta are part of an army, the Gods of Destruction aren't one and the Viking-esque appearance of the guy doesn't work with the Egyptian style clothing. Fuck, Bullza's proposed idea for making every pair of good reflect a specific, real world mythology (Beerus and Champa being Egyptian, this new guy and whoever his pair is being Viking gods) is far better than Toriyama's present laziness.

[MathSSJ]

Cap's suits are getting to the point where they are too busy though, both in comics and the movies. His suit in Winter Soldier is still leagues better then anything and it's the simplest of them all.

SSj4 is a clusterfuck of colors that only kinda, sorta works with GT's desaturated and muddy palette. Baby, at least his first and third forms when possessing Vegeta and the mature form, has very simple designs.

Caps WS suit is fairly detailed, probably one of his most detailed suits in the movies thus far. The simplest one is his Avengers suit and it looks like shit, I'd go so far as to say that outfit was one of the prime reasons no one liked him prior to WS.

Baby's later designs are what I was referring too, they're complicated but look good. 4s primary color palette is black and red and that usually works, having it be all golden would make more in-universe sense but the problem with that is that it'd be all yellow.

It's like... 90% blue. It has the brown with the straps as breaking points of the suit and the white lines + star. Compared to the shit that's in Age of Ultron and CW it's about as streamlined as you can get without getting into Avengers territory. A completely streamlined costume looks weird on live action, Superman notwithstanding, so they gotta add those extra lines and pockets.

I'm indifferent on Baby for the most part, except Form 2 and Oozaru look pretty bad IMO. But SSJ4 being red and black is all fine and dandy... Until the rest of the colors are mixed in. SSJ4 Goku has yellow, blue, pink, black and green(ish?). Vegeta has a completely different color palette and Gogeta goes fuck all with it. It's a mess. Dragon Ball characters are simple people, that should be reflected in their designs. I don't like Blue, but I think it worked really well with Goku's Whis Gi and it looks like ass with his regular Gi. It's not just about putting some arbitrary amount of work into the designs. As long as the color balance works well and it has some of the character iconography, I roll with it, at worst rant for a bit.

[Gog]

SSGod changing the physique and eyes (barely) makes it slightly less shitty than Blue and Rose in the originality department but that's like saying a switch blade to the balls is better than a butcher's knife. Same thing with Golden Freeza, minor alterations exist but it still is majoritively just a paint job of final form Freeza.

I'm not that interested in defending the saiyan god forms for not being redesigns as that is a fools errand. But however stating that the golden form, is just basically a paint job is objectively wrong. In fact the form has more difference's to it then super saiyan and super saiyan two do. Which isn't saying much as those two forms, are prehaps the laziest in the franchise. But those alterations aren't minor, for the sake of all fucks, his body is redesigned, Freeza, is more muscular, taller, his gems are smaller, he loses the gems on his shoulder's, he has two different colors of gold. Saying that its majority a paint job, is bullshit.

And fuck the brother & sister argument. Toriyama didn't make their designs and personalities the same because of the twin universes concept, he MADE the twin universes concept specifically so he wouldn't have to come up with an actual design. He just made fat Beerus (and make no mistake, personality wise Champa fucking IS the same person as Beerus) and chick Whis. It's the same reason for why the Grand Priest is the father of all the angels: that way Toriyama can make 12 copies of Whis and he can handwave it "well they're all family!"

I won't use it if it triggers you. Toriyama didn't make their designs and personality's the same, they are different characters. Their designs are goddamn similar, and it fucking triggers you? You know he could have actually have made them be the same characters but he didn't, Champa isn't Beerus, you just lodged onto CAT MAN FAT PURPLE = BEERUS11!!1!11111, and Vados, Vados isn't Whis, the fact that you can't even pick that up. Just annoys me as I've read your book Vicious god's wrath. Here I'll explain their personality's to you.
Champa is more lazy, under handed, less dignified, more emotionally immature, and hes more selfish. Vados is more mischievous than Whis, she is can be more blunt, and coy than him, she is also more blunt, Vados is also more confident in her fighting capability.

Saying Champa and Vados are "original designs" is like me writing about a British spy who works for MI6, drinks lots of booze, slips with everyone woman on the planet called Bames Jond and saying its an original character.

They are similar designs, and what you're using to compare dosen't even make any sense as you just made a character who is literally James bond, personality wise and design wise. So this falls apart was well

Nappa and Vegeta are part of an army, the Gods of Destruction aren't one and the Viking-esque appearance of the guy doesn't work with the Egyptian style clothing. Fuck, Bullza's proposed idea for making every pair of good reflect a specific, real world mythology (Beerus and Champa being Egyptian, this new guy and whoever his pair is being Viking gods) is far better than Toriyama's present laziness.

Oh for the love of god, the god of destruction's look like this because that is what they wear, its a code of dress that they have to wear. Similar to an army. Oh for the love of, just stop exaggerating that.