"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[BlueVegerot]

So this S-Cell stuff confirms that the power of the father plays a huge role in the power of the child right?

Goku was a ssj when he had goten while he was so much weaker when he and chichi had gohan.
Which would explain why goten had so much easier time transforming than gohan.
Gohan had ultimate when pan was conceived. Vegeta is a god when bulla is conceived.

I remember when people said it was because goten/trunks were tailless and had nothing to do with goku/vegeta power

[Grimlock]

But his character was sadly softened and there was also no comrade love in the story

I don't believe this has something to do with the fact that Bardock went to face Freeza...

[Noah]

The new informations about Raditz are interesting. In the G&A it's said Raditz was part of the warrior cast because he wasn't considered low level and could go to planets on his own but he was still nicknamed "weakling" by higher up Saiyans, I guess?

Yea, a bit contradictory, huh?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I don't believe this has something to do with the fact that Bardock went to face Freeza...

Of course, just pointing why I think the OVA is better in every aspect

So this S-Cell stuff...

I hope someone asks Toriyama in a next interview if Cell has a lot of S-Cells and if he could combine his Saiyan genes with his Freeza 'prodigy' genes while training and become much much stronger...

[kinisking]

The new informations about Raditz are interesting. In the G&A it's said Raditz was part of the warrior cast because he wasn't considered low level and could go to planets on his own but he was still nicknamed "weakling" by higher up Saiyans, I guess?

Yea, a bit contradictory, huh?

[spoiler][/spoiler]

I don't believe this has something to do with the fact that Bardock went to face Freeza...

Of course, just pointing why I think the OVA is better in every aspect

Because he was the weakest of the bunch. Not contradictory at all. We all say my friend sucks at super smash Bros because he's the worst out of my group of friends. But he's actually pretty good compared to a lot of people. I'm pretty sure raditz called himself elite too.

[Michsi]

More specifically, it's a bonus chapter found at the end of the Jaco manga. It isn't really a 'retelling' since Toriyama never showed the events of Goku escaping Vegeta in his own work. So it would be better to say that it's Toriyama's take of events that is different from the Bardock Special.

Correct, it just feels like a retelling imo, since the OVA has been pretty much considered part of the 'canon' for over 20 years. Bardock got written in the main story because Toriyama liked the OVA so much.

It features Bardock, but ignores everything else about the OVA.

Not quite everything. Bardock going to face Freeza is still valid, as summed up in chapter 307.

Oh, right. But to be fair, that part appears in the manga, so basically everything else that was OVA exclusive got kinda ignored.

[Ki Breaker]

Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi

Coincidence? I think not

Can I use it as my signature? Because I just recently read all the new info from Toryama`s Q&A and this is beautiful.

Sure, go ahead!

[Olympian]

That may be, both Nappa and Vegeta were clearly a good deal stronger than Raditz was but I feel it would help the trivia if it was especified who nicknamed him as such. He was affter all considered upper-class, just like Nappa

Funny that both his sons end up surpassing Bardock or did they retcon that along the years?

[TheOne]

What is DB minus? I keep seeing it everywhere

A special chapter drawn by Toriyama that is basically a retelling of how Goku escaped planet Vegeta's destruction. It features Bardock, but ignores everything else about the OVA. Gine, Goku's mother, first appears here.

More specifically, it's a bonus chapter found at the end of the Jaco manga. It isn't really a 'retelling' since Toriyama never showed the events of Goku escaping Vegeta in his own work. So it would be better to say that it's Toriyama's take of events that is different from the Bardock Special.

Is it considered canon? If so, I need to check it out.

[HeroR]

So this S-Cell stuff confirms that the power of the father plays a huge role in the power of the child right?

Goku was a ssj when he had goten while he was so much weaker when he and chichi had gohan.
Which would explain why goten had so much easier time transforming than gohan.
Gohan had ultimate when pan was conceived. Vegeta is a god when bulla is conceived.

I remember when people said it was because goten/trunks were tailless and had nothing to do with goku/vegeta power

Toriyama never connected Goku being a Super Saiyan with Goten having a lot of S-Cells. We also don't know if Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when he conceived Trunks and Trunks got Super Saiyan easily too. Ultimate has nothing to do with S-Cells, that's just Gohan's natural power pushed beyond its limits.

Goku and Vegeta's power doesn't have anything to do with Goten and Trunks getting Super Saiyan easily. In theory, you can have a lot of S-Cells and still not be strong enough to go Super Saiyan.

A special chapter drawn by Toriyama that is basically a retelling of how Goku escaped planet Vegeta's destruction. It features Bardock, but ignores everything else about the OVA. Gine, Goku's mother, first appears here.

More specifically, it's a bonus chapter found at the end of the Jaco manga. It isn't really a 'retelling' since Toriyama never showed the events of Goku escaping Vegeta in his own work. So it would be better to say that it's Toriyama's take of events that is different from the Bardock Special.

Is it considered canon? If so, I need to check it out.

It's written directly from Toriyama so it is 'canon' to his version of Dragon Ball. Fan have issues about the quality of Minus, but I personally like it. The biggest issue being that the story is way too big to tell in a few pages, especially a bonus chapter, and it seriously needs to be flush out more.

That may be, both Nappa and Vegeta were clearly a good deal stronger than Raditz was but they it should have been especified who nicknamed him as such. He was affter all considered upper-class, just like Nappa

Funny that both his sons end up surpassing Bardock or did they retcon that along the years?

I think Raditz called himself an elite warrior once in the manga.

Also, both of whose sons?

[BlueVegerot]

So this S-Cell stuff confirms that the power of the father plays a huge role in the power of the child right?

Goku was a ssj when he had goten while he was so much weaker when he and chichi had gohan.
Which would explain why goten had so much easier time transforming than gohan.
Gohan had ultimate when pan was conceived. Vegeta is a god when bulla is conceived.

I remember when people said it was because goten/trunks were tailless and had nothing to do with goku/vegeta power

Toriyama never connected Goku being a Super Saiyan with Goten having a lot of S-Cells. We also don't know if Vegeta was a Super Saiyan when he conceived Trunks and Trunks got Super Saiyan easily too. Ultimate has nothing to do with S-Cells, that's just Gohan's natural power pushed beyond its limits.

Goku and Vegeta's power doesn't have anything to do with Goten and Trunks getting Super Saiyan easily. In theory, you can have a lot of S-Cells and still not be strong enough to go Super Saiyan.

Toriyama said even with a high S cell count you still needed a high base power to transform and goten/trunks had absurdly high base powers especially compared to gohan at the same age who had trained and fought unlike those two. How come goten/trunks had a higher base power than gohan despite not training or fighting like he did?

[Michsi]

Is it considered canon? If so, I need to check it out.

That's up to each to decide, I'd say. It's written by the original author with the intent of adding it to the main story line and Super acknowledges Jaco; if that's enough for you to consider canon then sure. But it would seem that this version hasn't been quite that well received, so many like to pretend it doesn't exist.

[HeroR]

Toriyama said even with a high S cell count you still needed a high base power to transform and goten/trunks had absurdly high base powers especially compared to gohan at the same age who had trained and fought unlike those two. How come goten/trunks had a higher base power than gohan despite not training or fighting like he did?

That is because they were born tailless. From Daizenshuu 4:

The tailless second generation are super ultra child prodigies.
Saiyan genes have an extraordinarily good compatibility with Earthling blood. Because of this, when the two races are mixed together children with formidable power are born. Particularly, those Halflings born without tails hide an exceptional battle power. There are many things that they naturally master from a young age, such as the ordinarily arduous transformation into a Super Saiyan. In spite of having such an outstanding battle sense, they do not have a fondness for battle like a pure Saiyan. Instead, it seems that the violent temperament of the Saiyan has been relaxed through their Earthling blood.


This is what Toriyama have to say about Saiyans and their tails:

What happened to Vegeta's tail after he was defeated on Earth?
The tail lets you get tremendous strength instantly by transforming into a great ape, but the risks are equally great-- you'll lose your strength if it's squeezed. Once you're as powerful as Vegeta and Goku, the tail just gets in the way. It is thought that the bodies of Saiyans, who are a fighting species, decided that their tails are unnecessary appendages. - What happened to Vegeta's tail after he was defeated on Earth?
The tail lets you get tremendous strength instantly by transforming into a great ape, but the risks are equally great-- you'll lose your strength if it's squeezed. Once you're as powerful as Vegeta and Goku, the tail just gets in the way. It is thought that the bodies of Saiyans, who are a fighting species, decided that their tails are unnecessary appendages.

https://i.imgur.com/C7PIlU0.png


In short, Goten and Trunks are really strong because they're hybrids who are naturally stronger than pure Saiyans and tailless which is a sign of a Saiyan being strong since the body didn't need the tail. And with this new information, they're have a lot of S-Cells making Super Saiyan easy.

[BlueVegerot]

Based on what i saw from Z and super it appears that in terms of potential it goes Pan > goten > trunks and the powers of their fathers when they had the child are Gohan > Goku > Vegeta. I understand the tailess hybrid thing but i still think the fathers power has a lot to do with the childs natural power

[Olympian]

Yamcha + Roshi = Yamoshi

Coincidence? I think not

Can I use it as my signature? Because I just recently read all the new info from Toryama`s Q&A and this is beautiful.

Sure, go ahead!

Haha, arigato!

[HeroR]

Based on what i saw from Z and super it appears that in terms of potential it goes Pan > goten > trunks and the powers of their fathers when they had the child are Gohan > Goku > Vegeta. I understand the tailess hybrid thing but i still think the fathers power has a lot to do with the childs natural power

Goten and Trunks seems about equal in the potential department.

[perucho1990]

Poor Toshio, after episode 118 his twitter and Toei are going to get million and million of complains, wouldnt be surprised if even death threats.

Kishimoto, Kubo, Oda also dealt with this kind of stuff,

[BlueVegerot]

Based on what i saw from Z and super it appears that in terms of potential it goes Pan > goten > trunks and the powers of their fathers when they had the child are Gohan > Goku > Vegeta. I understand the tailess hybrid thing but i still think the fathers power has a lot to do with the childs natural power

Goten and Trunks seems about equal in the potential department.

I disagree. goten was a year younger and didn't know how to fly and trunks was only slightly stronger not to mention we saw trunks in the gravity chamber with vegeta, not saying he was always in there but he had that whereas the extent of gotens training was with chichi who can't really physically push him.

[Michsi]

Poor Toshio, after episode 118 his twitter and Toei are going to get million and million of complains, wouldnt be surprised if even death threats.

Kishimoto, Kubo, Oda also dealt with this kind of stuff,

Is he writing 118? Also what could happen in 118 that would cause such extreme reaction? It's not like he is responsible for the plot.

[Kanassa]

Poor Toshio, after episode 118 his twitter and Toei are going to get million and million of complains, wouldnt be surprised if even death threats.

Kishimoto, Kubo, Oda also dealt with this kind of stuff,

Is he writing 118? Also what could happen in 118 that would cause such extreme reaction? It's not like he is responsible for the plot.

It's a Piccolo and Gohan episode; unless he makes them perform amazing, he's gonna get fucked by the fanbase.

[BlueVegerot]

Poor Toshio, after episode 118 his twitter and Toei are going to get million and million of complains, wouldnt be surprised if even death threats.

Kishimoto, Kubo, Oda also dealt with this kind of stuff,

Is he writing 118? Also what could happen in 118 that would cause such extreme reaction? It's not like he is responsible for the plot.

he's not writing 118 but u6 being erased is gonna make a lot of people angry and he's the only writer with a public twitter so idiots will take it out on him