Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

I disagree with almost every number but I want to point out that Piccolo did not have weighted clothes until after the 23rd TB.

[DanielSSJ]

I disagree with almost every number but I want to point out that Piccolo did not have weighted clothes until after the 23rd TB.

Well I'm sorry you disagree. And as far as Piccolo goes, just ingnore the weighted Gi number.

[Noah]

How Roshi Buff Form would work for you guys?

For me could be something like 2x multiplier but then Roshi with 278 PL would make him slight above Daimao (260) so that it would not be right after all, I guess...

[ZombieVito]

How Roshi Buff Form would work for you guys?

For me could be something like 2x multiplier but then Roshi with 278 PL would make him slight above Daimao (260) so that it would not be right after all, I guess...

139 --> 180

Roughly a 1.30 multiplier.

[Noah]

How Roshi Buff Form would work for you guys?

For me could be something like 2x multiplier but then Roshi with 278 PL would make him slight above Daimao (260) so that it would not be right after all, I guess...

139 --> 180

Roughly a 1.30 multiplier.

Hmm, 180? But that was the same PL Tien had when he was fighting against Jackie Chun, huh? I remember it was implied that he only used 25% of his full power in this match, is that right?

Another question in Daimao Arc, Goku and Piccolo had the same power level in the final battle? I mean for me is implied that Goku is one or two steps ahead of him

[Doctor.]

How Roshi Buff Form would work for you guys?

For me could be something like 2x multiplier but then Roshi with 278 PL would make him slight above Daimao (260) so that it would not be right after all, I guess...

I don't take the Daizenshuu battle powers seriously, so it would probably be a 5x boost for me at minimum, it's what makes the most sense.

[RandomGuy96]

How Roshi Buff Form would work for you guys?

For me could be something like 2x multiplier but then Roshi with 278 PL would make him slight above Daimao (260) so that it would not be right after all, I guess...

25 ---> 375

He blew up the goddamned moon!

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Roshi also seemed to be able to potentially kill Great Ape Goku with a Kamehameha, and he's at least > 100.

[ZombieVito]

How Roshi Buff Form would work for you guys?

For me could be something like 2x multiplier but then Roshi with 278 PL would make him slight above Daimao (260) so that it would not be right after all, I guess...

139 --> 180

Roughly a 1.30 multiplier.

Hmm, 180? But that was the same PL Tenshinhan had when he was fighting against Jackie Chun, huh? I remember it was implied that he only used 25% of his full power in this match, is that right?

Another question in Daimao Arc, Goku and Piccolo had the same power level in the final battle? I mean for me is implied that Goku is one or two steps ahead of him

I'm using his official BP when he is firing the Kamehameha for the form. I don't remember that being said (25%).

I have Goku at 400 and Piccolo at 390.

[Noah]

I have Goku at 400 and Piccolo at 390.

So you have Kid Goku and Piccolo Daimao stronger than weighted Goku and Piccolo in BoZ? (334, 322)

[ZombieVito]

I have Goku at 400 and Piccolo at 390.

So you have Kid Goku and Piccolo Daimao stronger than weighted Goku and Piccolo in BoZ? (334, 322)

I miss the Daimao part.

260 for both.

[ahill1]

I have Goku at 400 and Piccolo at 390.

So you have Kid Goku and Piccolo Daimao stronger than weighted Goku and Piccolo in BoZ? (334, 322)

I miss the Daimao part.

260 for both.

You are wrong; Tenshinhan ( BoZ ) > Tenshinhan ( 23rd Budokai ) >> Piccolo Daimao Young so Piccolo Daimao young and Kid Goku must be less than 250. I would say around 200.

Piccolo Daimao Young 200

Son Goku ( Post Sacred Water ) 200

Tenshinhan ( 23 Budokai ) 225

Tenshinhan ( BoZ ) 250

[ahill1]

21st TENKAICHI BUDOKAI
Son Goku - 98
Ōzaru - 980
Jackie Chun - 95
MAX Power Kamehameha - 190
Krillin - 68
Yamcha - 54
Bacterian - 28
Ranfan - 13
Giran - 44
Namu - 70

1) I think the distance between Goku and Jackie Chun is too large. Right, Goku had the advantage in the fight, but a distance of 4% seems a bit overblown.

2) the distance between Goku and Namu is too big; the two fought evenly for a while and Goku won in the details. Boost Namu or lower.

3) I would put Giran stronger than Yamcha; Note that Goku struggled to block a blow of Giran.

4) Ran Fuan is very weak; his punches hurt Namu and besides she managed to dodge a serious attack of Namu. I would Ran Fuan stronger than Yamcha for sure.

Son Goku - 101
Training of Karin - 130

Karin said that Goku was many times stronger than before and you give Goku a increase of only 1.3 x?

Dracula Man - 42
Invisible Man - 11

The Warriors of Uranai Baba are chosen in order of strength, that is, getting progressively stronger, therefore Invisible Man > Count Dracula.

Mummy Man - 91

Mummy should not be weaker than Goku (21st Budokai) see that Kame-sen ' nin said that Goku from before would probably not have chances of winning. Mummy > = Goku (21st Budokai).

Krillin - 110
Yamcha - 105

Krillin and Yamcha were full of confidence in hitting a Goku stronger and they are even weaker than Goku (Karin). Besides Krillin fought evenly with a Goku stronger than 3 years ago and Yamcha has virtually the same force that Krillin. Yamcha and Krillin (22nd Budokai) should be considerably stronger than Goku (Uranai Baba Saga).

Panput - 51

Panpoot is weaker than Yamcha (21st Budokai)? I don't think so, see so casual that he broke the wall of Budokai.

Mr. Popo - 250
Kami-sama - 220

Mr. Popo stronger than Kami Sama? Although Mr Popo said Kami Sama is much stronger than himself.

[ZombieVito]

You are wrong; Tenshinhan ( BoZ ) > Tenshinhan ( 23rd Budokai ) >> Piccolo Daimao Young so Piccolo Daimao young and Kid Goku must be less than 250. I would say around 200.

Piccolo Daimao Young 200

Son Goku ( Post Sacred Water ) 200

Tenshinhan ( 23 Budokai ) 225

Tenshinhan ( BoZ ) 250

Didn't we already have this conversation?

Let me say this again: I don't care what you think.

[ahill1]

You are wrong; Tenshinhan ( BoZ ) > Tenshinhan ( 23rd Budokai ) >> Piccolo Daimao Young so Piccolo Daimao young and Kid Goku must be less than 250. I would say around 200.

Piccolo Daimao Young 200

Son Goku ( Post Sacred Water ) 200

Tenshinhan ( 23 Budokai ) 225

Tenshinhan ( BoZ ) 250

Didn't we already have this conversation?

Let me say this again: I don't care what you think.

So you'd rather be factually wrong just to follow the Daiz? Even if it contradicts the manga? I don't understand you. Stop being so stuck to Daiz; Manga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daiz

[DanielSSJ]

1) I think the distance between Goku and Jackie Chun is too large. Right, Goku had the advantage in the fight, but a distance of 4% seems a bit overblown.

At this point in the series, battles are won and lost based on the factors of strength, speed, skill, and luck. They have to rely on actual martial arts to win, not who can make the biggest Kamehameha. Besides, we're dealing with people who are barely using any form of Ki control whatsoever. Despite such great power advantages, a lack of Ki use evens the playing field. Also, a 4% power difference isn't that much.

2) the distance between Goku and Namu is too big; the two fought evenly for a while and Goku won in the details. Boost Namu or lower.

Namu is at most 80. That is as high as I'll go.

3) I would put Giran stronger than Yamcha; Note that Goku struggled to block a blow of Giran.

Giran gave up as soon as he got a whiff of Goku's true strength.

4) Ran Fuan is very weak; his punches hurt Namu and besides she managed to dodge a serious attack of Namu. I would Ran Fuan stronger than Yamcha for sure.

Ranfan needed sex appeal to even compete Namu. She is not terribly strong. Yamcha looked weak because he went up against the most experienced fighter there, who also happened to be the second strongest.

Karin said that Goku was many times stronger than before and you give Goku a increase of only 1.3 x?

The "many times stronger" line gets thrown around a lot during eary Dragon Ball, long before Toriyama even devised the concept of a numerical power rating. At the beginning of Z, Goku and Piccolo are only about 400 in strength, and they are at the top of the power scale. That doesn't leave very much room for characters to be "many times stronger" than each other.

The Warriors of Uranai Baba are chosen in order of strength, that is, getting progressively stronger, therefore Invisible Man > Count Dracula.

Again, a power vs skill arguement. Baba's fighters get progressively more difficult to fight. Both Dracula-man and Invisible-man were gimmick fighters. Krillin had outright difficulty against Dracula-man, whereas Yamcha was able to wreck Invisible man once he became visible.

Mummy should not be weaker than Goku (21st Budokai) see that Kame-sen ' nin said that Goku from before would probably not have chances of winning. Mummy > = Goku (21st Budokai).

Push Mummy-man up to 105.

Krillin and Yamcha were full of confidence in hitting a Goku stronger and they are even weaker than Goku (Karin). Besides Krillin fought evenly with a Goku stronger than 3 years ago and Yamcha has virtually the same force that Krillin. Yamcha and Krillin (22nd Budokai) should be considerably stronger than Goku (Uranai Baba Saga).

Note that they couldn't sense Ki yet. Both of them would struggle against Tao Pai Pai.

Panpoot is weaker than Yamcha (21st Budokai)? I don't think so, see so casual that he broke the wall of Budokai.

Pilaf Arc Yamcha was able to send Goku crashing through stone pillars.

Mr. Popo stronger than Kami Sama? Although Mr Popo said Kami Sama is much stronger than himself.

Eh, make Kami 295. Mr. Popo's true power is roughly 3...Googols. That's 3x10^100. He supresses himself to 270 so the Omniverse doesn't break.

[ahill1]

Son Goku arc

Kuririn 7

Yamcha 9
~Wolf Fang Fist 10.5

Son Goku 10
~Oozaru 100

Gyumao 19

Roshi 30



21st Budokai

Orin Temple Bullies 9

Yamcha 12
~Wolf Fang Fist 14

Giran 16

Kuririn 20

Namu 29

Son Goku 30
~Oozaru 300

Roshi 30


Red Ribbon Army part 1

Colonel Silver 10

Ninja Murasaki 18.6

Sergeant Metallic 27

Son Goku 30

Android #8 40


Red Ribbon Army part 2

Kuririn 20

Pirate Robot 24

General Blue 27

Son Goku 36

Tao Pai Pai 75

Son Goku ( Post Karin Training ) 83

Karin 170


Uranai Baba arc

Dracula Man 10.6

Invisible Man 11

Yamcha 12
~Wolf Fang Fist 14

Kuririn 20

Mummy 36

Akkuman 54

Son Gohan 80

Son Goku 83


22nd Budokai

Panpoot 30

Chapa-o 83

Chaozu 95

Yamcha 97.5

Kuririn 100

Tsuru 120

Roshi 139

Tenshinhan 180

Son Goku
~initial 100
~little more serious 120
~speedup ( "full match level" ) 154
~Full Power 180


Piccolo Daimao arc

flash back

Roshi ( Young ) 155
Tsuru ( Young ) 155
Mutaito 170

Kuririn 100

Cymbal 110

Tambourine 148

Yajirobe 160

Karin 170

Tenshinhan 180

Son Goku 180

Drum 300

Piccolo Daimao Old
~40% 360
~100% 900

Piccolo Daimao Young
~initial 1,200
~Full Power 1,800

Son Goku ( Post Sacred Water ) 1,800

Mr. Popo 3,000

Kami 6,000


23rd Budokai

Chapa-o 110

Chaozu 720

Chi Chi 900

Cyborg Tao Pai Pai 1,200

Yamcha 1,440

Kuririn 1,500

Tenshinhan 2,100

Shen 5,400

Kami 6,000

Piccolo Jr.
~initial 1,600
~Vs Kuririn 1,800
~Vs Shen 6,000
~Warm up ( Vs Goku ) 6,000
~Full Power 10,000

Son Goku
~Weighted
-------------speed 1,800
-------------power 2,100
~W/o Weights ( Vs Ten ) 3,000
~Tenshinhan's estimation 4,500
~Warm up ( Vs Piccolo ) 6,000
~Full Power 10,000

[Noah]

So you'd rather be factually wrong just to follow the Daiz? Even if it contradicts the manga? I don't understand you. Stop being so stuck to Daiz; Manga > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Daiz

How it contradicts the manga?

[Captain Space]

How it contradicts the manga?

Manga has 23rd Tenshinhan roughly equal to weighted Goku, who's above King Piccolo and Sacred Water Goku.

Even with 5 more years of training on top of that Tenshinhan's only at 250, hence King Piccolo can't be that high (so definitely not 260).

At least, I'm pretty sure that's what it is.

[ZombieVito]

How it contradicts the manga?

Manga has 23rd Tenshinhan roughly equal to weighted Goku, who's above King Piccolo and Sacred Water Goku.

Even with 5 more years of training on top of that Tenshinhan's only at 250, hence King Piccolo can't be that high (so definitely not 260).

At least, I'm pretty sure that's what it is.

Chapter: 176, P14.6-7
Context: as Goku fights Tenshinhan
Announcer: “As-is, both contestants are about even! Neither one is giving an inch!”
Kame-sennin: “No, they’re not even. Even though he’s been flying around so much, Goku isn’t out of breath, not even a little bit. Unbelievable.”