"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Sodhi]

Yay ssjg!! That was a great hospital treat! Can't wait to buy the tankoubon.

I hope ur doing alright.

[kinisking]

But the super manga follows the movies which ties in with the Toyotaro Freeza arc.

Where Goku when sparring with Whis saw the silhouette of SSG Goku implying his base form is god level or near it.Yet here Goku goes ssj then He turns into a Super Saiyan God on top of that then into a Super Saiyan Blue

Toriyama already said Goku won't need to be a god again because he already absorbed the power

The manga is just as bad with the scaling

The end of the original Battle of Gods movie still portrayed SSJ God as a power up above SSJ. Toyotaro likely based this power scaling on that, even though that scene wasn't in the manga (where Goku never went back to base or SSJ during the battle). Still, that power scaling doesn't contradict the manga version of the battle either. It only causes problems with the Super anime or statements from a Toriyama interview that already clashed with an existing movie.

I wouldn't say the movie portayed ssj god as a power up above ssj. Didn't he powerup into ssg from base?

[dbgtFO]

The end of the original Battle of Gods movie still portrayed SSJ God as a power up above SSJ. Toyotaro likely based this power scaling on that, even though that scene wasn't in the manga (where Goku never went back to base or SSJ during the battle). Still, that power scaling doesn't contradict the manga version of the battle either. It only causes problems with the Super anime or statements from a Toriyama interview that already clashed with an existing movie.

I wouldn't say the movie portayed ssj god as a power up above ssj. Didn't he powerup into ssg from base?

Goku failed as a SS to stop Beerus attack, he succeeded as a SSG. That's all you need to know the difference.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

The end of the original Battle of Gods movie still portrayed SSJ God as a power up above SSJ. Toyotaro likely based this power scaling on that, even though that scene wasn't in the manga (where Goku never went back to base or SSJ during the battle). Still, that power scaling doesn't contradict the manga version of the battle either. It only causes problems with the Super anime or statements from a Toriyama interview that already clashed with an existing movie.

I wouldn't say the movie portayed ssj god as a power up above ssj. Didn't he powerup into ssg from base?

Goku failed as a SS to stop Beerus attack, he succeeded as a SSG. That's all you need to know the difference.

He also failed to land a hit at 70% Beerus as a Super Saiyan God, but managed to do so in base & SS...

[kinisking]

The end of the original Battle of Gods movie still portrayed SSJ God as a power up above SSJ. Toyotaro likely based this power scaling on that, even though that scene wasn't in the manga (where Goku never went back to base or SSJ during the battle). Still, that power scaling doesn't contradict the manga version of the battle either. It only causes problems with the Super anime or statements from a Toriyama interview that already clashed with an existing movie.

I wouldn't say the movie portayed ssj god as a power up above ssj. Didn't he powerup into ssg from base?

Goku failed as a SS to stop Beerus attack, he succeeded as a SSG. That's all you need to know the difference.

I forgot that Goku was a ss initally. I only remembered that he was in base when he transformed to ssg. Youre right.

[Xeztin]

This manga thing would be easier to understand for everyone if Super Saiyan God, was Saiyan God, and Super Saiyan blue, was Super Saiyan God. If they'd done this for the manga and gave SSG to Vegeta too it'd be a lot better off. If Freeza got a kick out of SSJB's hair color, he'd be rolling over right now seeing SSJ, SSG, SSJB in that order.

[Noah]

Toyotaro is a retarded fella, I though he was one like us: hardcore fans that knows all the 42 volumes of the manga, point by point, quote chapters, pages and statements like the Bible itself, analyse anything plot and power related, but no... He's just a damned fool! It makes me angry that I though before that he could help Toriyama avoiding plot holes through the story, but it seems I was wrong! It is possible that he also doesn't even know about Bra's existence either! How unfortunate.

C'mon guy's don't knock Toyotaro, we're not even sure if it was his idea. SSG could have been the original plan from Toriyama himself, but Toei probably wanted a new form for the merch so they went with the Kaio-ken thing because SSG isn't new. Those two aura's doesn't look like something Toriyama would come up with.

Toriyama wouldn't do that to us, besides he would be contracting his own story! In BoG movie was explicit that Vegeta would do the ritual and he stated that SSGSS is indeed stronger than SSJG, that could only be Toyotaro!

I think Toriyama just told both the anime staff and Toyotaro to do whatever the hell they want. Probably the only thing he wrote is "SSB Goku fights against Hit" or something similar.

I can't believe in something like this, is the whole "Toriyama don't care about Dragon Ball" all over again! I mean if he don't give a damn about his own story why even tend to continue? Just give up already! It's almost like GT! He is just giving some plot concepts, it seems he not really into the story, that's sad.

[Neon Z]

The odd thing about this is that the first half of the battle seemed really similar in the manga and anime, so Toriyama must have detailed it quite a bit, only to leave things open afterwards? Then again, if you think about it, the SSJ God transformation is pretty irrelevant here plotwise, things could flow in the same way as the manga battle if he had just stayed in SSJ and then went SSB, with the manga adding the bit with SSJ God as fanservice that doesn't influence it much, while the anime adds Kaioken x20 which needed more rewriting since it had larger implications.

Although there's still the line about SSB's draining a ridiculous amount of power... I guess we'll see an answer to that in the next arc, since either Toyotaro will need to write something around that, if he made it up, or we'll see it becoming really plot relevant because they'll be fighting outside of a tournament setting and likely will use SSB before the final battle, if there was something in Toriyama's outline about it.

[HeroR]

The odd thing about this is that the first half of the battle seemed really similar in the manga and anime, so Toriyama must have detailed it quite a bit, only to leave things open afterwards? Then again, if you think about it, the SSJ God transformation is pretty irrelevant here plotwise, things could flow in the same way as the manga battle if he had just stayed in SSJ and then went SSB, with the manga adding the bit with SSJ God as fanservice that doesn't influence it much, while the anime adds Kaioken x20 which needed more rewriting since it had larger implications. Although there's still the line about SSB's draining a ridiculous amount of power... Although I guess we'll see an answer to that in the next arc, since either Toyotaro will need to make some way around that, if he made it up, or we'll see it becoming really plot relevant because they'll be fighting outside of a tournament setting and likely will use SSB before the final battle.

Goku used a Kaio-Ken X10, not 20.

[Araki]

C'mon guy's don't knock Toyotaro, we're not even sure if it was his idea. SSG could have been the original plan from Toriyama himself, but Toei probably wanted a new form for the merch so they went with the Kaio-ken thing because SSG isn't new. Those two aura's doesn't look like something Toriyama would come up with.

You're not sure about any of that either, and yet you're pointing fingers at Toei and saying they "probably wanted a new form for merch". Contradiction much?
Let's be objective and not Toyotarou apologists for a minute. There are so many things wrong with Goku activating SSG like that, and the fact the anime ignored it, is all we need to make sure that was much more likely Toyotarou's idea than anything else. It's the most viable explanation.

I think Magetta's fight can be seen as a sign that Toriyama likely wrote just brief outlines for the fights.
As Neon Z pointed out above, Goku using SSG wasn't even relevant for his version of the fight, Toyotarou just wanted to be different - at the cost of contradicting things we knew but whatever. His choice.
The SSGSS power/stamina drain that came out of nowhere (and after they mocked Freeza for it) sounds very weird too, to say the least, but we'll see.

[sintzu]

"At the moment it is unclear whether the Dragon Ball Super manga adaptation will be a true adaptation of its TV series counterpart, or will merely serve as a promotional tool to provide previews of upcoming episodes and story lines"

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/05/19/dr ... in-v-jump/

We now know that it isn't adapting the TV show and isn't just a preview for what's to come in the anime so what happens in the manga is just as relevant as what happens in the anime.

The question is, which one is more relevant and which one's events will play a part in future stories ? If we don't see Vegeta trying to figure out a way to reach Goku's 10× Kaioken and if it isn't used again then we'll know for sure it was just a one time thing for the tournament.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

C'mon guy's don't knock Toyotaro, we're not even sure if it was his idea. SSG could have been the original plan from Toriyama himself, but Toei probably wanted a new form for the merch so they went with the Kaio-ken thing because SSG isn't new. Those two aura's doesn't look like something Toriyama would come up with.

You're not sure about any of that either, and yet you're pointing fingers at Toei and saying they "probably wanted a new form for merch". Contradiction much?
Let's not be "Toyotarou apologists", please. There are so many things wrong with Goku activating SSG like that, and the fact the anime ignored it, is all we need to make sure that was much more likely Toyotarou's idea than anything else.

I think Magetta's fight can be seen as a sign that Toriyama likely wrote just brief outlines for the fights.
As Neon Z pointed out above, Goku using SSG wasn't even relevant for his version of the fight, Toyotarou just wanted to be different - at the cost of contradicting things we knew but whatever. His choice.

And there is the fact that SSG Goku is stated to be stronger than SSB Vegeta. There is so many things wrong with Toyataro just did with this chapter. And there the fact in the chapter it's clear that:
cabba and maggeta and frost are stronger then Hit.
the manga says that ssj goku is stronger then hit in strength.

This chapter was just pure BS.

[Pannaliciour]

I was 99.9% sure that Kaio ken was Toriyama's idea and would show up also in the manga. But this I didn't expect at all. First, in the anime they explained the kaio ken very well and that the combination of ssjb + kk is possible. They showed the flashback, how Beerus was shitting himself. Even in the filler they mention it.

But somehow the manga did suprise me. I am not that suprised because you have to.sell the manga. So.it have to be a little different.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

And there is the fact that SSG Goku is stated to be stronger than SSB Vegeta. There is so many things wrong with Toyataro just did with this chapter. And there the fact in the chapter it's clear that:
cabba and maggeta and frost are stronger then Hit.
the manga says that ssj goku is stronger then hit in strength.

This chapter was just pure BS.

You're cherry picking. SSG Goku is only stronger than SSGSS Vegeta at 10% of his power, and SS Goku is only stronger than the suppressed level Hit is using. His max power surpasses SSGSS Goku.

[Neon Z]

And there is the fact that SSG Goku is stated to be stronger than SSB Vegeta. There is so many things wrong with Toyataro just did with this chapter. And there the fact in the chapter it's clear that:
cabba and maggeta and frost are stronger then Hit.
the manga says that ssj goku is stronger then hit in strength.

This chapter was just pure BS.

Goku SSJGod was apparently stronger than Vegeta SSJB due to the stamina issue though, not at 100%. Considering the full description of the chapter, Hit was holding back initially (rather than his power growing through the battle), and it ends with the same "Goku gives up because he notices Hit couldn't fight with his all due to assassin techniques being forbidden" from the anime.

[saiyanvegetable]

The whole chapter makes no sense

The entire anime doesn't make sense.

[ChaosLordBrandon]

The problem is that turning SSB to show Cabba made Vegeta lose 90% of his power. That makes the SSB transformation extremely useless. But not only that is directly goes against everything the show and Toriyama himself has said about that form.

[Xeztin]

C'mon guy's don't knock Toyotaro, we're not even sure if it was his idea. SSG could have been the original plan from Toriyama himself, but Toei probably wanted a new form for the merch so they went with the Kaio-ken thing because SSG isn't new. Those two aura's doesn't look like something Toriyama would come up with.

You're not sure about any of that either, and yet you're pointing fingers at Toei and saying they "probably wanted a new form for merch". Contradiction much?
Let's be objective and not Toyotarou apologists for a minute. There are so many things wrong with Goku activating SSG like that, and the fact the anime ignored it, is all we need to make sure that was much more likely Toyotarou's idea than anything else. It's the most viable explanation.

I think Magetta's fight can be seen as a sign that Toriyama likely wrote just brief outlines for the fights.
As Neon Z pointed out above, Goku using SSG wasn't even relevant for his version of the fight, Toyotarou just wanted to be different - at the cost of contradicting things we knew but whatever. His choice.
The SSGSS power/stamina drain that came out of nowhere (and after they mocked Freeza for it) sounds very weird too, to say the least, but we'll see.

I now agree Toriyama told both Toei and Toyotaro to do whatever they want. A new form for merch for Toei (the shows to sell merch, not story telling), bringing back SSG for Toyotaro. (Fan-service)

[sintzu]

The problem is that turning SSB to show Cabba made Vegeta lose 90% of his power. That makes the SSB transformation extremely useless.

Vegeta lost his power because he powered down then powered up again.

Had he stayed in that form he wouldn't have lost his power.

[Lord Beerus]

Just read chapter 13 and read the translated summary of it and while the fight between Goku and Hit was nice, it wasn't up to par to what we got in EP 38 and 39 on the anime. However, this has to be the worst chapter of the Super manga yet because of the rife amount bullshit and contradictions that there was in the chapter. I mean, Vegeta lost 90% of his power transforming into SSJB briefly for Cabba? Ridiculous. Absolutely ridiculous. I thought we were past this bullshit stamina draining flaw when SSJ2 and SSJ3 were dropped in favour of FPSSJ, a transformation that doesn't consume stamina, but it seems that either FPSSJ is now suddenly flawed or God ki has just become impractical to use in combat, much like SSJ3, which makes no sense because we no got any indication that God ki, or transformations that used God ki, drastically drained your stamina in a very short period of time. The only solace for from this chapter was that we got some sort idea of where SSJG sits in the power ranking with SSJG Goku being stated to be stronger than 10% SSJB Vegeta. Although, Goku transforming into SSJG in the first place make no sense whatsoever.

Fuck this chapter.