"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[TheMikado]

What is this crap? I'm gone for a weak and suddenly what we know about super is exactly the opposite of how it was in the anime?? I swear if this next arc doesn't get its sh*t together I just don't know.

[ekrolo2]

What is this crap? I'm gone for a weak and suddenly what we know about super is exactly the opposite of how it was in the anime?? I swear if this next arc doesn't get its sh*t together I just don't know.

Supers manga has always been a different beast from the anime since the start, Battle of Gods from the show has precisely fuck all and a healthy dose of jack shit to do with the anime as does the U6 tournament. Why in front flipping, monster slaying Jesus fuck are people suddenly surprised by this?!

Toyotaro is a retarded fella, I though he was one like us: hardcore fans that knows all the 42 volumes of the manga, point by point, quote chapters, pages and statements like the Bible itself, analyse anything plot and power related, but no... He's just a damned fool! It makes me angry that I though before that he could help Toriyama avoiding plot holes through the story, but it seems I was wrong! It is possible that he also doesn't even know about Bra's existence either! How unfortunate.

C'mon guy's don't knock Toyotaro, we're not even sure if it was his idea. SSG could have been the original plan from Toriyama himself, but Toei probably wanted a new form for the merch so they went with the Kaio-ken thing because SSG isn't new. Those two aura's doesn't look like something Toriyama would come up with.

Toriyama wouldn't do that to us, besides he would be contracting his own story! In BoG movie was explicit that Vegeta would do the ritual and he stated that SSGSS is indeed stronger than SSJG, that could only be Toyotaro!

I think Toriyama just told both the anime staff and Toyotaro to do whatever the hell they want. Probably the only thing he wrote is "SSB Goku fights against Hit" or something similar.

I can't believe in something like this, is the whole "Toriyama don't care about Dragon Ball" all over again! I mean if he don't give a damn about his own story why even tend to continue? Just give up already! It's almost like GT! He is just giving some plot concepts, it seems he not really into the story, that's sad.

Toriyama made it a point to say Goku and Vegeta would exclusively rely on their Base and regular Super Saiyan states after Battle of Gods, shunning 2 and 3 as mere variations or powered up states of a form (SSJ) that's supposedly more efficivient than its powered up states. So, naturally Toriyama decides to fucking invent another variation of Super Saiyan AND apparently make it a point to say the previously efficient transformation NEVER WAS! but the new variation (Blue) is!

Lets not pretend any further folks, Toriyama blatantly went back against what he said in an interview. So lets not pretend this is unprecedented or impossible. Hell, Blue wasn't even going to be Blue until Toriyama changed his mind in the eleventh hour! It was gonna be White!

[Xeztin]

The problem is that turning SSB to show Cabba made Vegeta lose 90% of his power. That makes the SSB transformation extremely useless.

Vegeta lost his power because he powered down then powered up again.

Had he stayed in that form he wouldn't have lost his power.

Exactly, he transformed a few times, it wasn't he transformed once and suddenly he was weak.

[HeroR]

Exactly, he transformed a few times, it wasn't he transformed once and suddenly he was weak.

Which would make Vegeta a huge moron. He knows about the huge power drain and should have stayed transformed once he showed off to Cabba.

[Xeztin]

Toriyama made it a point to say Goku and Vegeta would exclusively rely on their Base and regular Super Saiyan states after Battle of Gods, shunning 2 and 3 as mere variations or powered up states of a form (SSJ) that's supposedly more efficivient than its powered up states. So, naturally Toriyama decides to fucking invent another variation of Super Saiyan AND apparently make it a point to say the previously efficient transformation NEVER WAS! but the new variation (Blue) is!

Lets not pretend any further folks, Toriyama blatantly went back against what he said in an interview. So lets not pretend this is unprecedented or impossible. Hell, Blue wasn't even going to be Blue until Toriyama changed his mind in the eleventh hour! It was gonna be White!

To be honest I don't know why people are freaking out, hes always done this multiple times as you've stated. Remember when he retconned Boo's origin in that interview which contradicted the manga?

[Neon Z]

Toriyama made it a point to say Goku and Vegeta would exclusively rely on their Base and regular Super Saiyan states after Battle of Gods, shunning 2 and 3 as mere variations or powered up states of a form (SSJ) that's supposedly more efficivient than its powered up states. So, naturally Toriyama decides to fucking invent another variation of Super Saiyan AND apparently make it a point to say the previously efficient transformation NEVER WAS! but the new variation (Blue) is!

That's going by the Super anime though. If we go by this chapter, apparently SSJ still is much more efficient than the new SSJB, which makes it odd that the new form has such a big weakness. Of course, this chapter contradicts another Toriyama interview although, like I mentioned before that one was always odd because the ending of BoGs (movie) clearly shows that SSJGod is still above SSJ.

It'll be interesting to see how the next arc is handled. Either SSJB's stamina issues will become obvious in the anime too, if they're part of Toriyama's outline, or we'll get Toyotaro writing them out somehow.

[sintzu]

Which would make Vegeta a huge moron. He knows about the huge power drain and should have stayed transformed once he showed off to Cabba.

We don't know if he knew that and chances are he didn't cause there's no way he'd do such a thing if he knew he'd lose all his power.

[IGhostUlt]

Wow a lot of you guys are annoying. Do you need an explanation for everything? Oh wow he went ssg in the manga and went ssgsskk in the anime. Who cares?!! This is a fantasy world afterall. It doesn't always have to make sense. It's pretty cool and all you guys need to do is enjoy it for what it is.

[Xeztin]

Which would make Vegeta a huge moron. He knows about the huge power drain and should have stayed transformed once he showed off to Cabba.

We don't know if he knew that and chances are he didn't cause there's no way he'd do such a thing if he knew he'd lose all his power.

There could always be the in-universe perspective that he was getting tired, because he was fighting one after the other and Magnetta gave him a run for his money. He probably realized he couldn't take Hit in his current state and that Goku would never shut up if he never got to fight Hit; So he probably used the chance to educate Cabba.

[namekiansaiyan]

We should have known this would happen as Piccolo vs Frost was also different along with Vegeta vs Magetta.
So from now on we know we will definitely get 2 different versions for everything basically.

Wow a lot of you guys are annoying. Do you need an explanation for everything? Oh wow he went ssg in the manga and went ssgsskk in the anime. Who cares?!! This is a fantasy world afterall. It doesn't always have to make sense. It's pretty cool and all you guys need to do is enjoy it for what it is.

Say hello to the Kanzenshuu community.

[ekrolo2]

Toriyama made it a point to say Goku and Vegeta would exclusively rely on their Base and regular Super Saiyan states after Battle of Gods, shunning 2 and 3 as mere variations or powered up states of a form (SSJ) that's supposedly more efficivient than its powered up states. So, naturally Toriyama decides to fucking invent another variation of Super Saiyan AND apparently make it a point to say the previously efficient transformation NEVER WAS! but the new variation (Blue) is!

That's going by the Super anime though. If we go by this chapter, apparently SSJ still is much more efficient than the new SSJB, which makes it odd that the new form has such a big weakness. Of course, this chapter contradicts another Toriyama interview although, like I mentioned before that one was always odd because the ending of BoGs (movie) clearly shows that SSJGod is still above SSJ.

It'll be interesting to see how the next arc is handled. Either SSJB's stamina issues will become obvious in the anime too, if they're part of Toriyama's outline, or we'll get Toyotaro writing them out somehow.

If anything, Goku and Vegeta having trouble with the form makes more sense than anything. Red God disappears very quickly and I'll certainly take Blue being taxing over it being perfect right off the bat, it'll actually mean Goku and Vegeta will have to work at this new source of power they've got now instead of Blue automatically being the best SSJ form ever of all time. Even better than the SSJ which was fully mastered until it wasn't because Blue needed to look more special.

[HeroR]

Toriyama made it a point to say Goku and Vegeta would exclusively rely on their Base and regular Super Saiyan states after Battle of Gods, shunning 2 and 3 as mere variations or powered up states of a form (SSJ) that's supposedly more efficivient than its powered up states. So, naturally Toriyama decides to fucking invent another variation of Super Saiyan AND apparently make it a point to say the previously efficient transformation NEVER WAS! but the new variation (Blue) is!

Lets not pretend any further folks, Toriyama blatantly went back against what he said in an interview. So lets not pretend this is unprecedented or impossible. Hell, Blue wasn't even going to be Blue until Toriyama changed his mind in the eleventh hour! It was gonna be White!

To be honest I don't know why people are freaking out, hes always done this multiple times as you've stated. Remember when he retconned Boo's origin in that interview which contradicted the manga?

.

The difference is that we have Toriyama's own word when he retcon Buu's origins and he acknowledged it as a retcon. Also
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is just Super Saiyan with God ki, not a brand new transformation, so he didn't change his mind on Goku just using base and Super Saiyan forms, since Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is at the end of the day a modfied version of Super Saiyan.

Here, we have a second hand source retconing Toriyama's statements and what he wrote in the movies he created. Unless you have Toriyama written or saying he changed his mind about Goku absorbing godhood and doesn't need Super Saiyan God anymore, this entire chapter is bull.

[namekiansaiyan]

Which would make Vegeta a huge moron. He knows about the huge power drain and should have stayed transformed once he showed off to Cabba.

We don't know if he knew that and chances are he didn't cause there's no way he'd do such a thing if he knew he'd lose all his power.

There could always be the in-universe perspective that he was getting tired, because he was fighting one after the other and Magnetta gave him a run for his money. He probably realized he couldn't take Hit in his current state and that Goku would never shut up if he never got to fight Hit; So he probably used the chance to educate Cabba.

Vegeta would never think that.

[sintzu]

We should have known this would happen as Piccolo vs Frost was also different along with Vegeta vs Magetta.

They were different but not in a way that changed the plot like what's going on with Goku and Hit's fight.

[Araki]

Which would make Vegeta a huge moron. He knows about the huge power drain and should have stayed transformed once he showed off to Cabba.

We don't know if he knew that and chances are he didn't cause there's no way he'd do such a thing if he knew he'd lose all his power.

What? If he didn't, then he is a complete retard. This wasn't the first time he was using SSB, he just spent 3 years in the new RoSaT and he still wasn't aware of that flaw? What were they thinking when they mocked Golden Freeza? Oh boy, the more we talk about this, the worse it gets.

Either way, Toyotarou's chapter made Vegeta look absolutely stupid in retrospect, since he either was dumb enough to not know that, or he just went "oops! i should have stayed transformed, i'm basically useless now, lolz!"

The difference is that we have Toriyama's own word when he retcon Buu's origins and he acknowledged it as a retcon. Also Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is just Super Saiyan with God ki, not a brand new transformation, so he didn't change his mind on Goku just using base and Super Saiyan forms, since Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is at the end of the day a modfied version of Super Saiyan.

Here, we have a second hand source retconing Toriyama's statements and what he wrote in the movies he created. Unless you have Toriyama written or saying he changed his mind about Goku absorbing godhood and doesn't need Super Saiyan God anymore, this entire chapter is bull.

This, it's simple like that.

[Xeztin]

Toriyama made it a point to say Goku and Vegeta would exclusively rely on their Base and regular Super Saiyan states after Battle of Gods, shunning 2 and 3 as mere variations or powered up states of a form (SSJ) that's supposedly more efficivient than its powered up states. So, naturally Toriyama decides to fucking invent another variation of Super Saiyan AND apparently make it a point to say the previously efficient transformation NEVER WAS! but the new variation (Blue) is!

That's going by the Super anime though. If we go by this chapter, apparently SSJ still is much more efficient than the new SSJB, which makes it odd that the new form has such a big weakness. Of course, this chapter contradicts another Toriyama interview although, like I mentioned before that one was always odd because the ending of BoGs (movie) clearly shows that SSJGod is still above SSJ.

It'll be interesting to see how the next arc is handled. Either SSJB's stamina issues will become obvious in the anime too, if they're part of Toriyama's outline, or we'll get Toyotaro writing them out somehow.

If anything, Goku and Vegeta having trouble with the form makes more sense than anything. Red God disappears very quickly and I'll certainly take Blue being taxing over it being perfect right off the bat, it'll actually mean Goku and Vegeta will have to work at this new source of power they've got now instead of Blue automatically being the best SSJ form ever of all time. Even better than the SSJ which was fully mastered until it wasn't because Blue needed to look more special.

It was stated within the anime that Goku and Vegeta just scratched the surface of God Ki when Whis was talking to the Oracle fish so it not being perfect makes sense.

[HeroR]

Which would make Vegeta a huge moron. He knows about the huge power drain and should have stayed transformed once he showed off to Cabba.

We don't know if he knew that and chances are he didn't cause there's no way he'd do such a thing if he knew he'd lose all his power.

He trained in the Hypobolic Time Chamber for three years and we saw Goku and Vegeta used Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. If he didn't know about the power drain after three years of training, than he's a moron.

[ekrolo2]

Toriyama made it a point to say Goku and Vegeta would exclusively rely on their Base and regular Super Saiyan states after Battle of Gods, shunning 2 and 3 as mere variations or powered up states of a form (SSJ) that's supposedly more efficivient than its powered up states. So, naturally Toriyama decides to fucking invent another variation of Super Saiyan AND apparently make it a point to say the previously efficient transformation NEVER WAS! but the new variation (Blue) is!

Lets not pretend any further folks, Toriyama blatantly went back against what he said in an interview. So lets not pretend this is unprecedented or impossible. Hell, Blue wasn't even going to be Blue until Toriyama changed his mind in the eleventh hour! It was gonna be White!

To be honest I don't know why people are freaking out, hes always done this multiple times as you've stated. Remember when he retconned Boo's origin in that interview which contradicted the manga?

.

The difference is that we have Toriyama's own word when he retcon Buu's origins and he acknowledged it as a retcon. Also
Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is just Super Saiyan with God ki, not a brand new transformation, so he didn't change his mind on Goku just using base and Super Saiyan forms, since Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is at the end of the day a modfied version of Super Saiyan.

Here, we have a second hand source retconing Toriyama's statements and what he wrote in the movies he created. Unless you have Toriyama written or saying he changed his mind about Goku absorbing godhood and doesn't need Super Saiyan God anymore, this entire chapter is bull.

He says regular Super Saiyan and Base would be their go to options for training and battle from now on, denouncing the variations of SSJ2 and 3 as powered up state that aren't efficient anymore. Now, if Goku couldn't just use Super Saiyan and Blue WAS Super Saiyan now, I might let this slide, but no! They can fucking use both, going completely against what he talked about before by creating ANOTHER variation on SS which was supposedly the best transformation for Goku and Vegeta moving forward.

So yeah, if Toyotaro is a bastard scumbag for contradicting Toriyama, Toriyama is a bastard scumbag for contradicting himself. Hell, the guy thought Blue was a weak color for a form then changed White into Blue at the eleventh hour!

[Xeztin]

Which would make Vegeta a huge moron. He knows about the huge power drain and should have stayed transformed once he showed off to Cabba.

We don't know if he knew that and chances are he didn't cause there's no way he'd do such a thing if he knew he'd lose all his power.

He trained in the Hypobolic Time Chamber for three years and we saw Goku and Vegeta used Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan. If he didn't know about the power drain after three years of training, than he's a moron.

If that's the case we can just chalk it up as a plot-hole/plot-device, if he in fact didn't know.

He says regular Super Saiyan and Base would be their go to options for training and battle from now on, denouncing the variations of SSJ2 and 3 as powered up state that aren't efficient anymore. Now, if Goku couldn't just use Super Saiyan and Blue WAS Super Saiyan now, I might let this slide, but no! They can fucking use both, going completely against what he talked about before by creating ANOTHER variation on SS which was supposedly the best transformation for Goku and Vegeta moving forward.

So yeah, if Toyotaro is a bastard scumbag for contradicting Toriyama, Toriyama is a bastard scumbag for contradicting himself. Hell, the guy thought Blue was a weak color for a form then changed White into Blue at the eleventh hour!

I think people need to stop trying to make 2 alternate tellings fit together, and to realize that Toriyama is the kind of author that changes his mind on the flip of a dime. That's just how he is, and he probably doesn't care what anyone thinks of it. it's his story, and if he could speak English he'd probably tell us to get over ourselves that it's not meant for us.

[Saiyan007]

Which would make Vegeta a huge moron. He knows about the huge power drain and should have stayed transformed once he showed off to Cabba.

We don't know if he knew that and chances are he didn't cause there's no way he'd do such a thing if he knew he'd lose all his power.

why wouldn't he know that he was training with Goku for 3 years.

Surely he would realize something like that