Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[ekrolo2]

Goku can still use Super Saiyan 3....

[TheMikado]

So why is everyone assumin Dabura is God Tier? It's not really weird that he he lost to a SSJ.

[dbzfan7]

Goku can still use Super Saiyan 3....

What was that about never using SSJ2 and 3 again? Next ep we get more SSJ2.

So why is everyone assumin Dabura is God Tier? It's not really weird that he he lost to a SSJ.

We're not. It's worse case scenario. As Future Trunks is fighting with SSJ2 Goku, a guy 100x stronger than the one who fought Googeta, who stomped SSJ3 Gotenks. If we count the filler arc, that makes Trunks immensely powerful, as well as potentially Dabura too.

But it's as I said. Super will make less and less sense with power levels as we go on. I've long since accepted that.

[TheMikado]

Goku can still use Super Saiyan 3....

I bailed a while ago but not completely done with the series. If Goku loses in one of his BS base forms or SSJ form when his God forms are like 100s of times stronger then I will quit the series for good. This arc is its last chance but I'm worried the power creep is so bad know that they have to artificially create tension with gimmicky scenarios.

[ekrolo2]

Goku can still use Super Saiyan 3....

What was that about never using SSJ2 and 3 again? Next ep we get more SSJ2.

The only hope left is the manga, if Toyotaro has them pull 2 and 3 out of their asses at this stage, it's all equally fucked.

The sad part is, this pretty much confirms that Goku and Vegeta have two base forms...

[Lord Beerus]

Goku can still use Super Saiyan 3....

I bailed a while ago but not completely done with the series. If Goku loses in one of his BS base forms or SSJ form when his God forms are like 100s of times stronger then I will quit the series for good. This arc is its last chance but I'm worried the power creep is so bad know that they have to artificially create tension with gimmicky scenarios.

That's been par of the course since the Android arc.

[TheMikado]

^ there's a certain amount of leeway you can give a kids series like this. Super just happens to take those scenarios and multiple them by ten like KK.

[ekrolo2]

Well, at least there's a bright side. All the guys who cried wolf about the manga contradicting Toriyama can piss off after this episode

[TheMikado]

Well, at least there's a bright side. All the guys who cried wolf about the manga contradicting Toriyama can piss off after this episode

I didn't even know there was a debate on this.

[Lord Beerus]

Well, at least there's a bright side. All the guys who cried wolf about the manga contradicting Toriyama can piss off after this episode

But what if Toyotaro has Goku pull out SSJ3 when he and Future Trunks fight? What will we do then?

[dbzfan7]

Goku can still use Super Saiyan 3....

What was that about never using SSJ2 and 3 again? Next ep we get more SSJ2.

The only hope left is the manga, if Toyotaro has them pull 2 and 3 out of their asses at this stage, it's all equally fucked.

The sad part is, this pretty much confirms that Goku and Vegeta have two base forms...

That, or Trunks somehow got a lot stronger since Dabura. Turns out Kaioshin didn't train him, but he got tips.

Or that filler arc is just like the Goku and Vegeta inside Boo filler, which had them beat the equivalent of Gohan and Gotenks according to D7.

[HeroR]

Alright I just re-watched a couple of scenes and it looks as though Trunks beat Dabura as a regular Super Saiyan and then sometime in the years that followed he became a Super Saiyan 2.

Goku also went Super Saiyan 2, they fought that briefly that you couldn't say for sure they were equal. He had no problem blocking Trunks attacks and stopped his fists before turning into a Super Saiyan 3 and one shotting him.

In the preview Goku appears to just use ordinary Super Saiyan unless those gold sparks meant SSJ2 but who knows. Why he's fighting Black as a SSJ even though he was just told he's at least as strong as his SSJ3 form...we'll see, maybe he'll transform further.

This definitely set it apart from the movie and the manga now though. That is unless he does something similar in the manga.

What if this was in Toriyama's plot outline and Base Goku being above SSJ3 Gotenks was just Toei filler, that'd complicate things.

It really doesn't goes against Toriyama's statement. He said that Goku will not use Super Saiyan 2 and 3 again, not that he can't. It also doesn't confirm the two base theory since Goku's regular Super Saiyan from also have no god energy in it, so he would be able to go Super Saiyan 2 and 3 if he wanted to, but those forms drain energy, which is why Toriyama said he won't used them anymore. So, it's more practical to go to Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, which is stronger and less draining.

[TheMikado]

Well, at least there's a bright side. All the guys who cried wolf about the manga contradicting Toriyama can piss off after this episode

But what if Toyotaro has Goku pull out SSJ3 when he and Future Trunks fight? What will we do then?

Blame the source?

[ekrolo2]

Well, at least there's a bright side. All the guys who cried wolf about the manga contradicting Toriyama can piss off after this episode

But what if Toyotaro has Goku pull out SSJ3 when he and Future Trunks fight? What will we do then?

The only possible thing calm individuals on the Internet do about Dragon Ball power levels, ever:

[Bullza]

It's all very confusing. It depends how much time passed between when Trunks fought Dabura and when he fought Black, he only looked to be a SSJ when he beat Dabura but he's capable of SSJ2 now so he must have gotten stronger since.

Not sure what was going on with Goku. To me it looked as though he went SSJ2 to match Trunks' SSJ2 and then maybe went SSJ3 just to show him there's a higher level kind of like what Vegeta did with Cabba when he went SSJB and one shotted but that might be completely wrong altogether.

Base Goku being well above SSJ3 Gotenks wasn't the problem funnily enough, that's how it should be based on a lot of other stuff so I dunno. Goku didn't just stand there to let Trunks wail on him like what Copy Vegeta did with Gotenks so you'd have to assume that Trunks was stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.

And there wouldn't be anything wrong with that because who knows what he could have achieved with Kaioshin. Maybe they unlocked his power like they did with Gohan or greater. There's the question of why he'd use Super Saiyan if that was the case but then supposedly they still can as was seen in the Battle of Gods movie.

Trunks being so strong isn't a problem it's Goku turning SSJ2 and SSJ3 that messes it up. If he's only going to use Super Saiyan against Black then if he'd only used it against Trunks in this episode everything would have still fit nicely.

[dbzfan7]

And there wouldn't be anything wrong with that because who knows what he could have achieved with Kaioshin. Maybe they unlocked his power like they did with Gohan or greater. There's the question of why he'd use Super Saiyan if that was the case but then supposedly they still can as was seen in the Battle of Gods movie.

There was no Kaioshin training, he just got a tip. https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/746867317401747456

[TheMikado]

And there wouldn't be anything wrong with that because who knows what he could have achieved with Kaioshin. Maybe they unlocked his power like they did with Gohan or greater. There's the question of why he'd use Super Saiyan if that was the case but then supposedly they still can as was seen in the Battle of Gods movie.

There was no Kaioshin training, he just got a tip. https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/746867317401747456

Right and even at that Goku and Vegeta are at a level they couldn't achieve even with Kaioshin training. The only known way for them to get that strong in base was the ritual, which then turned into getting it through God training. Now it looks like you can get God level base from other means with no Gods Kaioshins or even mentors....just waiting for God Yamcha now.

[HeroR]

It's all very confusing. It depends how much time passed between when Trunks fought Dabura and when he fought Black, he only looked to be a SSJ when he beat Dabura but he's capable of SSJ2 now so he must have gotten stronger since.

Not sure what was going on with Goku. To me it looked as though he went SSJ2 to match Trunks' SSJ2 and then maybe went SSJ3 just to show him there's a higher level kind of like what Vegeta did with Cabba when he went SSJB and one shotted but that might be completely wrong altogether.

Base Goku being well above SSJ3 Gotenks wasn't the problem funnily enough, that's how it should be based on a lot of other stuff so I dunno. Goku didn't just stand there to let Trunks wail on him like what Copy Vegeta did with Gotenks so you'd have to assume that Trunks was stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.

And there wouldn't be anything wrong with that because who knows what he could have achieved with Kaioshin. Maybe they unlocked his power like they did with Gohan or greater. There's the question of why he'd use Super Saiyan if that was the case but then supposedly they still can as was seen in the Battle of Gods movie.

Trunks being so strong isn't a problem it's Goku turning SSJ2 and SSJ3 that messes it up. If he's only going to use Super Saiyan against Black then if he'd only used it against Trunks in this episode everything would have still fit nicely.

I don't believe so, I think Goku was just holding back just enough to give Future Trunks the chance to show off and to show Trunks was was beyond Super Saiyan 3, while Copy-Vegeta gave no crap and beat Gotenks up.

[HeroR]

And there wouldn't be anything wrong with that because who knows what he could have achieved with Kaioshin. Maybe they unlocked his power like they did with Gohan or greater. There's the question of why he'd use Super Saiyan if that was the case but then supposedly they still can as was seen in the Battle of Gods movie.

There was no Kaioshin training, he just got a tip. https://twitter.com/Herms98/status/746867317401747456

Right and even at that Goku and Vegeta are at a level they couldn't achieve even with Kaioshin training. The only known way for them to get that strong in base was the ritual, which then turned into getting it through God training. Now it looks like you can get God level base from other means with no Gods Kaioshins or even mentors....just waiting for God Yamcha now.

What are you talking about and what makes you think Future Trunks is god level? This makes about as much sense that everyone thought Black was weak because he didn't kill Trunks in one hit. Goku obviously wasn't going all out and was letting Trunks test himself.

[supercat]

I see nothing wrong with Future Trunks being notably stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks or any other top contender of the Buu arc. The series has progressed so much since Buu's defeat, it would be odd if surpassing said villain was even considered a milestone worth mentioning at this point.