"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[sintzu]

I wouldn't call Vegeta great personally and if I was forced to watch an entire arc about him I would probably stop watching and marathon.

What makes Vegeta vastly different from Sasuke is that Sasuke is for all practical purposes a co-star to Naruto.

If anything, Gohan is closer to a 'Sasuke' outside of not having a rivalry role.

Vegeta did more in the manga, but he was still second fiddle to Goku who rendered his Super Saiyan God switch trick moot since Goku had Mastered Super Saiyan Blue.

Black never fighting Goku was really stupid in the manga since Black stole his body and killed that version of Goku, and those two never traded hands.

I don't mean everything focused on him, just that he gets a villain to himself like what he got with Black in the manga. He got Black and it took nothing away from Goku as he got his own thing as well.

Which is what Vegeta's supposed to be in Super but no one wants to go all out with it.

If he's not a rival then he can't fill that position. He's more of a Boruto type than anything else.

That's my point above, Vegeta got a villain to himself and he got to show something new without taking anything away from Goku. Goku is still the strongest character in the arc and was still the one to fight fused Zamasu but unlike the anime, he didn't get Black as well. By having things play out like that it made seeing Goku more exciting cause he wasn't forced down our throats throughout the arc.

He got to fight him in the end after fusing so why can't that be enough ? Goku gets everything yet for some reason there are people like you who want him to take what little the others have as well. Isn't it enough that he fought him 4 times in the anime ?

To know that it was Toyotaro's idea to give Super Saiyan God to Vegeta and not Toriyama actually makes things worse, it's like that crap old formula will stick into the main product as long as Toriyama keeps himself involved.

Toriyama said he works closely with "the editorial office" so he's not the only one keeping things the way they are. I think things will remain safe as long as he and whoever else are running things while Toyotarou takes those ideas and changes them up a bit to seem less safe.

[Grimlock]

This is why I hope that as super progresses or the next sequels come out, toriyama is not involved. There was an interview a few weeks ago with people from toei talking about how they want to do more with characters such as Gohan, Pan and Piccolo among others in Super but Toriyama obviously doesn't care.

I think I missed that interview, could you please provide the source?

You do want Heroes stuff since you wanted Trunks to become a Time Patrol at the end of the Future Trunks Saga and got upset when that didn't happened. Well, I guess that would technically be Dragon Ball Online, but my point stands.

No, your point doesn't stand. Dragon Ball Online is not Dragon Ball Heroes, they aren't even in the same league and cannot/must not be seen as equal or such.

And I don't see how Vegeta getting Super Saiyan God is some mark that Toriyama won't do anything new when he gave Vegeta a more powerful god form at the same time as Goku.

Considering he didn't transform into Super Saiyan 3 but "suddenly" got Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, one could say Vegeta only got it because Toriyama was forced to do so, otherwise Vegeta would be stuck in Super Saiyan 2.

Again, with this Ultra Instinct thing, Vegeta has a chance to actually get something new out of it just for him. If they can step out of the comfort zone like you say, let's see if they will take this chance (if he gets Ultra Instinct, that is).

[HeroR]

This is why I hope that as super progresses or the next sequels come out, toriyama is not involved. There was an interview a few weeks ago with people from toei talking about how they want to do more with characters such as Gohan, Pan and Piccolo among others in Super but Toriyama obviously doesn't care.

I should note the same thing was said about GT and it also had next to no involvement from Toriyama. And that interview was from one producer.

This is why I hope that as super progresses or the next sequels come out, toriyama is not involved. There was an interview a few weeks ago with people from toei talking about how they want to do more with characters such as Gohan, Pan and Piccolo among others in Super but Toriyama obviously doesn't care.

I think I missed that interview, could you please provide the source?

You do want Heroes stuff since you wanted Trunks to become a Time Patrol at the end of the Future Trunks Saga and got upset when that didn't happened. Well, I guess that would technically be Dragon Ball Online, but my point stands.

No, your point doesn't stand. Dragon Ball Online is not Dragon Ball Heroes, they aren't even in the same league and cannot/must not be seen as equal or such.

And I don't see how Vegeta getting Super Saiyan God is some mark that Toriyama won't do anything new when he gave Vegeta a more powerful god form at the same time as Goku.

Considering he didn't transform into Super Saiyan 3 but "suddenly" got Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan, one could say Vegeta only got it because Toriyama was forced to do so, otherwise Vegeta would be stuck in Super Saiyan 2.

Again, with this Ultra Instinct thing, Vegeta has a chance to actually get something new out of it just for him. If they can step out of the comfort zone like you say, let's see if they will take this chance.

It kinda is since they're both games.

The god forms are not connected to Super Saiyan 3 so that really doesn't matter. And why would Toriyama be 'force' to give Vegeta anything? And why do people always go to 'Toriyama was forced' argument with no proof.

I don't see how Vegeta getting UI is 'step out of the comfort zone'. If anything, Vegeta not getting UI would be out of their comfort zone since everyone expects Vegeta to get that form eventually. Unless you meant Vegeta getting UI before Goku.

[BlueVegerot]

Hero R , nobody cares if you don't like vegeta. just cause you wouldn't watch an arc about him doesn't mean people in japan wouldn't either or in the west. "OMG someone other than goku getting shine, not in my dragonball".

[BlueVegerot]

This is why I hope that as super progresses or the next sequels come out, toriyama is not involved. There was an interview a few weeks ago with people from toei talking about how they want to do more with characters such as Gohan, Pan and Piccolo among others in Super but Toriyama obviously doesn't care.

I should note the same thing was said about GT and it also had next to no involvement from Toriyama. And that interview was from one producer.

People learn from their mistakes, notice how trunks was relevant in the black arc, how vegeta got some shine in that arc, how gohan feels relevant in this arc. Unlike GT where it was Goku time all the time.

[sintzu]

It didnt happen when Trunks fought Merged Zamasu while relegating Goku to side character status. A lot japanese fans liked that Trunks chopped Merged Zamasu in 2.

Trunks has been a main character of their heroes game since 2010 and both XV games so they look at him as less of a risk and probably a way to bring in who like those games.

Toyo is also wasting him, Imo, since he still trying to keep the one-sided rivalry between Goku and Vegeta alive.

What does popularity have to do with anything?

He's not the main writer so there's only so much he can do with what's given to him and so far he's done more than I could've ever hoped for.

If something just has an average fanbase then the people behind it are less likely to drastically change things in fear of peole dropping it.

[Totamo]

Problem is, it's not only that one poll. We had that recent nation wide poll that covered several generations and Goku freakin' dominated most of that too. With such an overwhelming presence in not just the fandom, but an entire generations, having him get replaced just doesn't seem worth the risque. They tried that already with Gohan, and Gohan was super popular during Z's run time, and it failed.

Not saying they shouldn't take more risks with ideas, any idea can be successful if done well, but having Goku in the forefront is just the safest bet. It's been said before, DB isn't an ensemble story, it's Goku's story.

No one is saying goku shoudn't be the main character or that most arcs shouldn't be centered around him but as I said above, Vegeta or Gohan getting the glory once in a while or beating a main guy/finishing someone off isn't going to harm the franchise. Nobody would drop super if vegeta was the one to have beaten freeza or if trunks had beaten black last arc. Most of the fights/screentime is given to goku anyways so people would tune in regardless

Hahaha, this is a lie. Do you know how many people complained about trunks powerups in that arc and even went as far as to call him a gary sue.


Fans don't know what they want.

[Supersaiyanbulla]

Hero R , nobody cares if you don't like vegeta. just cause you wouldn't watch an arc about him doesn't mean people in japan wouldn't either or in the west. "OMG someone other than goku getting shine, not in my dragonball".

This.

[Totamo]

This is why I hope that as super progresses or the next sequels come out, toriyama is not involved. There was an interview a few weeks ago with people from toei talking about how they want to do more with characters such as Gohan, Pan and Piccolo among others in Super but Toriyama obviously doesn't care.

I should note the same thing was said about GT and it also had next to no involvement from Toriyama. And that interview was from one producer.

People learn from their mistakes, notice how trunks was relevant in the black arc, how vegeta got some shine in that arc, how gohan feels relevant in this arc. Unlike GT where it was Goku time all the time.

Yet everyone still says that bout this arc that its all about Goku and before that it was called the Goku and Vegeta show and what toei did may have ruined him for a lot of the fanabse.


Now, imagine if they did that to Gohan?

[Michsi]

Problem is, it's not only that one poll. We had that recent nation wide poll that covered several generations and Goku freakin' dominated most of that too. With such an overwhelming presence in not just the fandom, but an entire generations, having him get replaced just doesn't seem worth the risque. They tried that already with Gohan, and Gohan was super popular during Z's run time, and it failed.

Not saying they shouldn't take more risks with ideas, any idea can be successful if done well, but having Goku in the forefront is just the safest bet. It's been said before, DB isn't an ensemble story, it's Goku's story.

No one is saying goku shoudn't be the main character or that most arcs shouldn't be centered around him but as I said above, Vegeta or Gohan getting the glory once in a while or beating a main guy/finishing someone off isn't going to harm the franchise. Nobody would drop super if vegeta was the one to have beaten freeza or if trunks had beaten black last arc. Most of the fights/screentime is given to goku anyways so people would tune in regardless

As aggravating as it is, character's from the main hero's group are often used as a measuring stick. If there is one thing I appreciate in western superhero stories is that they try to make each member seem equally important, whereas in shonen, the MC is most of the time worlds above his friends.

Having said that, I do think there is a chance this arc might have an unexpected ending. Though I think it may be Gohan that gets a little bit more by the end.

[BlueVegerot]

Problem is, it's not only that one poll. We had that recent nation wide poll that covered several generations and Goku freakin' dominated most of that too. With such an overwhelming presence in not just the fandom, but an entire generations, having him get replaced just doesn't seem worth the risque. They tried that already with Gohan, and Gohan was super popular during Z's run time, and it failed.

Not saying they shouldn't take more risks with ideas, any idea can be successful if done well, but having Goku in the forefront is just the safest bet. It's been said before, DB isn't an ensemble story, it's Goku's story.

No one is saying goku shoudn't be the main character or that most arcs shouldn't be centered around him but as I said above, Vegeta or Gohan getting the glory once in a while or beating a main guy/finishing someone off isn't going to harm the franchise. Nobody would drop super if vegeta was the one to have beaten freeza or if trunks had beaten black last arc. Most of the fights/screentime is given to goku anyways so people would tune in regardless

Hahaha, this is a lie. Do you know how many people complained about trunks powerups in that arc and even went as far as to call him a gary sue.


Fans don't know what they want.

And those same fans still watch the show. fans will always complain about powerups that they feel are undeserved but will sit down and watch regardless. Goku getting UI this arc is as much as an "asspull" as trunks was and "asspulls" will still continue to occur

[HeroR]

Hero R , nobody cares if you don't like vegeta. just cause you wouldn't watch an arc about him doesn't mean people in japan wouldn't either or in the west. "OMG someone other than goku getting shine, not in my dragonball".

Apparently you do since you took the time to write this, which shows a level of care. And I never claimed that no one in Japan wouldn't watch an arc with just Vegeta, so don't put words into my mouth. I specifically said 'personally' for a reason.

And just because I wouldn't watch an arc with Vegeta doesn't mean I "OMG someone other than Goku getting shine, not in my Dragon Ball". I just don't like Vegeta enough as a character to watch just him. But I would happily watch an entire arc about Gohan, Krillin, Pan, Trunks, or even Jaco.

People learn from their mistakes, notice how trunks was relevant in the black arc, how vegeta got some shine in that arc, how gohan feels relevant in this arc. Unlike GT where it was Goku time all the time.

Them wanting to do more with certain characters could have been done decades ago since Toriyama had no involvement with Dragon Ball for over twenty years. When Battle of Gods was worked on without Toriyama, it was all about Goku. The part where Vegeta rage boots with 'My Bulma' was Toriyama's idea. So I am not sure where this narrative that Toriyama is the one holding Vegeta back from greatness.

Future Trunks was relevant because the arc was called the Future Trunks Saga not the Black Saga. Gohan getting relevant in this arc was also Toriyama's idea along with 17 coming back.

[perucho1990]

Hero R , nobody gives a shit if you don't like vegeta. just cause you wouldn't watch an arc about him doesn't mean people in japan wouldn't either or in the west. "OMG someone other than goku getting shine, not in my dragonball"

No offense, but thats the same kind of mentality Star Wars fans have(if you checked Star Wars Last Jedi spoilers you will understand)
[spoiler]Luke dying and the massive complain this is getting on the Internet because Disney wants to focus on the new generation[/spoiler]

If nexts year is centered on U6 adventures, I feel Vegeta would be good enough to carry the arc on his back.

[BlueVegerot]

I should note the same thing was said about GT and it also had next to no involvement from Toriyama. And that interview was from one producer.

People learn from their mistakes, notice how trunks was relevant in the black arc, how vegeta got some shine in that arc, how gohan feels relevant in this arc. Unlike GT where it was Goku time all the time.

Yet everyone still says that bout this arc that its all about Goku and before that it was called the Goku and Vegeta show and what toei did may have ruined him for a lot of the fanabse.


Now, imagine if they did that to Gohan?

A lot of the issue with this arc being too much goku is the focus he gets in episodes after his huge fights. they tell us a million times "hes exhausted" ," he has no energy left", etc and 30 seconds later he's in blue fighting someone again. For example episode, they could have sat him out in episodes 117-119 and it wouldn't have mattered cause none of the opponents were important or necessary for him to be there.

[BlueVegerot]

Hero R , nobody cares if you don't like vegeta. just cause you wouldn't watch an arc about him doesn't mean people in japan wouldn't either or in the west. "OMG someone other than goku getting shine, not in my dragonball".

Apparently you do since you took the time to write this, which shows a level of care. And I never claimed that no one in Japan wouldn't watch an arc with just Vegeta, so don't put words into my mouth. I specifically said 'personally' for a reason.

And just because I wouldn't watch an arc with Vegeta doesn't mean I "OMG someone other than Goku getting shine, not in my Dragon Ball". I just don't like Vegeta enough as a character to watch just him. But I would happily watch an entire arc about Gohan, Krillin, Pan, Trunks, or even Jaco.[/quoteu

Um good for you. Nobody asked you in the first place about whether you would watch vegeta or not. the discussion was about whether the franchise would fall apart if goku got sidelined for one arc.

[sintzu]

If nexts year is centered on U6 adventures, I feel Vegeta would be good enough to carry the arc on his back.

There's no way that'll happen with the relationship Goku has with the Saiyan girls. If we get a Sadal arc it'll be about those 3, not Vegeta and Cabba who barely talked to each other in the current arc which shows how much the staff are interested in them.

[Totamo]

Hero R , nobody cares if you don't like vegeta. just cause you wouldn't watch an arc about him doesn't mean people in japan wouldn't either or in the west. "OMG someone other than goku getting shine, not in my dragonball".

This.

They kinda won't, at least a vast majority of them, if people really cared about this then Toei would have thrown more bones by now and by the way this is not a new complaint.

When tori was writing the red ribbon arc, people said he doesn't use his characters very well, that was the third arc of the manga and he kept doing it afterwards and toei has followed that pattern throughout everything they have ever touch. Look at the movies


Toriyama uses Goku mostly because he is easy to write around, toei uses him because he makes more money than any other character.

[HeroR]

Um good for you. Nobody asked you in the first place about whether you would watch vegeta or not. the discussion was about whether the franchise would fall apart if goku got sidelined for one arc.

I gave an opinion, you're the one acting like I personally insulted someone. You really didn't have to response when I made a comment that I personally wouldn't watch an arc about Vegeta.

[BlueVegerot]

Hero R , nobody cares if you don't like vegeta. just cause you wouldn't watch an arc about him doesn't mean people in japan wouldn't either or in the west. "OMG someone other than goku getting shine, not in my dragonball".

This.

They kinda won't, at least a vast majority of them, if people really cared about this then Toei would have thrown more bones by now and by the way this is not a new complaint.

When tori was writing the red ribbon arc, people said he doesn't use his characters very well, that was the third arc of the manga and he kept doing it afterwards and toei has followed that pattern throughout everything they have ever touch. Look at the movies


Toriyama uses Goku mostly because he is easy to write around, toei uses him because he makes more money than any other character.

Gohan fighting cell was a huge turn of events and dragonball didn't fall apart. also its not like they had built him up in the android arc nor was it public that he was going to be the main guy. Again i didn't say goku shouldn't be the main guy but having vegeta finish off freeza in RoF would not have cost dragonball any fans or money, having trunks slice up zamasu didn't harm the franchise as seen by its growing popularity and revenue.

[sintzu]

Having vegeta finish off freeza in RoF would not have cost dragonball any fans or money.

Let's get a good fight with Jerin before asking for something as big as finishing off a main villain.