"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ShinTenshin]

Toriyama about DBSUPER by Toyotaro :

" I never thought an artist like you would come along to draw the CONTINUATION OF MY STORY ! ".

Toriyama about DRAGON BALL GT :

"If you are able, along with me, to enjoy watching the original Dragon Ball's GRAND SIDE-STORY Dragon Ball GT, you will be pleased."

[dbzfan7]

Toriyama about DBSUPER by Toyotaro :

" I never thought an artist like you would come along to draw the CONTINUATION OF MY STORY ! ".

Toriyama about DRAGON BALL GT :

"If you are able, along with me, to enjoy watching the original Dragon Ball's GRAND SIDE-STORY Dragon Ball GT, you will be pleased."

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=29426

[Noah]

^ so is it safe to say the manga is more likely canon than the anime?

No, neither of those are canon, guys just enjoy the ride, Super is just like GT. A side story and nothing else.

Ok. I like how people think that they actually can choose what is canon and what not.

It's simple, just follow the manga and ignore the rest, there is no harm in doing that.

Beerus, Super Saiyan God, Golden Frieza, none of those things happened... Since it was said "10 peaceful years after Majin Boo defeated"

[Chelentano]

It's simple, just follow the manga and ignore the rest, there is no harm in doing that.

Beerus, Super Saiyan God, Golden Frieza, none of those things happened... Since it was said "10 peaceful years after Majin Boo defeated"

Ok. But please, call Toriyama and tell him that now you choose which of his stories are canon. I think he isn't aware of that.

[dbzfan7]

It's simple, just follow the manga and ignore the rest, there is no harm in doing that.

Beerus, Super Saiyan God, Golden Frieza, none of those things happened... Since it was said "10 peaceful years after Majin Boo defeated"

Ok. But please, call Toriyama and tell him that now you choose which of his stories are canon. I think he isn't aware of that.

I'm not even sure he'd know what the word means today. There's no real attempt at anything on purpose. This isn't Disney with Star Wars.

[Xeztin]

For those bashing everything or that are trying to forcefully imply false information as fact's with no proof, and insulting other's that think differently than you, I'd ease up on it. Pretty sure that's what got a certain user banned. Especially bashing Toriyama/Toyotaro, I mean good grief,it's not the end of the world just because you don't agree with certain aspects of the franchise, it doesn't revolve around pleasing anyone in particular.

[Krillin1994]

So the consensus seems to be that transforming itself is what causes the stamina issues of the SSJB form, but in the Goku v Hit fight in the anime before the KKx10 Kamehameha Goku says "even blue won't last much longer, I'll finish it in one blow".

Even though he is using Kaioken which would cause stamina issues, it seems to imply that blue is also causing stamina issues maintaining it.

[kinisking]

So the consensus seems to be that transforming itself is what causes the stamina issues of the SSJB form, but in the Goku v Hit fight in the anime before the KKx10 Kamehameha Goku says "even blue won't last much longer, I'll finish it in one blow".

Even though he is using Kaioken which would cause stamina issues, it seems to imply that blue is also causing stamina issues maintaining it.

It probably has some sort of drain but it's no where as big as the actual transformation.

[kinisking]

I feel that Super deserves being called canon more than GT. The involvement by Akira is much more. However canon is hard to describe in dragonball. Nothing is officially defined so technically you can pick and choose. But for the sake of less inconsistencies (especially with powerlevels) , it's usually better to just pick whatever Akira makes.

[TheMikado]

I feel that Super deserves being called canon more than GT. The involvement by Akira is much more. However canon is hard to describe in dragonball. Nothing is officially defined so technically you can pick and choose. But for the sake of less inconsistencies (especially with powerlevels) , it's usually better to just pick whatever Akira makes.

So is SSBxKKx10 canon or not?

[kinisking]

I feel that Super deserves being called canon more than GT. The involvement by Akira is much more. However canon is hard to describe in dragonball. Nothing is officially defined so technically you can pick and choose. But for the sake of less inconsistencies (especially with powerlevels) , it's usually better to just pick whatever Akira makes.

So is SSBxKKx10 canon or not?

Lmao Super is fucking confusing in that aspect. It's hard to pick what Akira actually made. But seeing as how it's not in the manga, Akira almost definitely didn't make it. So it's not canon imo.

[Hellspawn28]

I feel like that you can not create your own cannon in opposition to the creators of the franchise. At this rate, Super and GT are their own both continuity that do not follow the manga. Super has filler characters in the re-telling and The Champa saga had flash backs of the re-tellings of BOG.

[sintzu]

I feel that Super deserves being called canon more than GT. The involvement by Akira is much more.

That's true but which version of super's stories are canon ? BOG has 3 versions, RF has 2.5 & The Champa arc has 2 that are very different from each other.

At this point it's too hard and confusing to have one canon so dividing everything up into levels is the best option.

Level 1 canon : The original manga and whatever info Toriyama gives in interviews that don't contradict it. (for example, telling us why #16 looks the way he does)
Level 2 canon : DB,Z (minus the contradicting fillers)& Z's 2 TV specials.
Level 3 canon : The Super anime, The Super manga, Jaco's manga & DB-, Z's last 2 movies & the 2008 OVA.
Level 4 canon : Filler arcs, the original 17 movies, both versions of the Hatchyack OVA & Episode of Bardock.
Level 5 canon : GT

[TheMikado]

I see we've come full circle to the levels of canon which is fine but the question is which levels are preferred for discussion on this forum?

[HeroR]

I feel like that you can not create your own cannon in opposition to the creators of the franchise. At this rate, Super and GT are their own both continuity that do not follow the manga. Super has filler characters in the re-telling and The Champa saga had flash backs of the re-tellings of BOG.

The biggest different is that Toriyama is writing Super, or at least the outline. So, Super is canon to the manga since that is the only thing Toriyama cares about. Toei filling the gap by putting some of their original characters that doesn't even effect the plot is just petty nickpicking. GT was no writing by Toriyama and it has several things that is anime only that does effects the plot unlike Super, like their version of Hell, and the water used to cure everyone from Baby's influence that was used in the Garlic Jr Saga.

Also, is the Kaio-Ken/Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan combo canon. I say that it is since Toriyama approved of it and it doesn't goes against anything Toriyama said in the past. Unlike the manga which makes Super Saiyan God a normal transformation, when Toriyama said Goku didn't need it anymore since he absorbed it power and that is shown in the movie that he wrote, and Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan being an energy hog, something that is shown in no other media.

[TheMikado]

But Toriyama approved everything and literal stamps his name on it all. It's weird hearing people say the SSB in the manga isn't canon but the SSBxKK is when Toei clearly completely invented it. Super weird, almost as if people want the things that they like validated as canon. Basically I'm of the mind that if Toriyama allows it with the Dragonball name then it's "canon" period. And each is as valid as the next within its own continuity. No exceptions. Otherwise we start getting into the above scenarios.

[PsionicWarrior]

Toei filling the gap by putting some of their original characters that doesn't even effect the plot is just petty nickpicking.

Not really, in fact is a pretty big deal. If you write something, then producer "fills the gap", there is always a possibility it creates issues.

Super weird, almost as if people want the things that they like validated as canon.

Personally I put my taste aside if I need to consider which is canon, then if some stuff is not written by and only approved by author, there is just hope said author knows what he's doing...

[sintzu]

Which levels are preferred for discussion on this forum?

It depends on the topic, if a topic is about why Freeza destroyed planet Vegeta then the reason stated in the manga is the preferred reason over what's being stated in the current material.

If the topic is about Trunks' hair color then the color in the manga and original anime is the preferred color.

If the topic is about the true successor to Ssj3 then the form(s) in the current material that are written by Toriyama are preferred over Gt's Ssj4.

[HeroR]

Toei filling the gap by putting some of their original characters that doesn't even effect the plot is just petty nickpicking.

Not really, in fact is a pretty big deal. If you write something, then producer "fills the gap", there is always a possibility it creates issues.
[/quote]

Gregory and Mr. Satan's assistants being in a few scene hardly effects the plot, especially when they haven't done anything. Even Ginyu being the Resurrection 'F' Saga did nothing to change the overall story and just gave Gohan someone else to beat up on.

[TheMikado]

Toei filling the gap by putting some of their original characters that doesn't even effect the plot is just petty nickpicking.

Not really, in fact is a pretty big deal. If you write something, then producer "fills the gap", there is always a possibility it creates issues.

Gregory and Mr. Satan's assistants being in a few scene hardly effects the plot, especially when they haven't done anything. Even Ginyu being the Resurrection 'F' Saga did nothing to change the overall story and just gave Gohan someone else to beat up on.[/quote]

Whether SSB is a power drain or whether Goku can pull a KKx10 out his @$$ if the universe is in danger makes a HUGE difference in terms of plot.

Imagine if instead of USSJ Trunks getting slower her got 10x more powerful how much of a narrative difference that would make!! That's what we are faced with here. Any threat they now face in the plot will be with that question in mind depending on what you believe and subscribe to. As I said before in the universe in imminent danger and Goku DOESNT at least attempt SSBxKKx1/2 when he did in much less dire tournament then your gonna get pretty annoyed. It's like the titanic sinking and you know getting out the spare lifeboats for plot and suspense reasons. No one who watched the Champa arc is going to feel like Goku did everything he could against a future threat if he doesn't use it again.