Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
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Ki Breaker
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by Ki Breaker » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:16 pm
Doctor. wrote:Ki Breaker wrote:If a character is entertaining, they aren't just serviceable anymore to me
But entertainment has little to do with a character being well-written or not. That's the distinction I'm making, I'm not challenging you on whether or not you like Black.
I am not sure if I would call a boring character well written, if he was well written he wouldn't be boring..
Being well written and having a complex back story are different things
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
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Gog
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by Gog » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:19 pm
Ki Breaker wrote:Rosé looks ridiculous on black, super Saiyan looks much better..
There is nothing interesting about black or his attacks, the only factor which made him work was he looked like goku, take that away and you have a shitty written villan
I never once expected to hear that sentence in my entire life, Rose is prehaps the most suited form for Black, it just suits him so well.
Black's incredibly interesting he's level headed, brutal, sadistic, he actually believes he's doing he right thing, he's polite, he's a masochist and he's determined. , also nothing interesting about the pink scythe and sword? Take that away and he still works, in fact if you take away Goku's appearance and just slap his regular one on. He still works.
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Ki Breaker
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by Ki Breaker » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:22 pm
Gog wrote:
I never once expected to hear that sentence in my entire life
That's why it's in unpopular opinions..
I know he works for a lot of people but he simply dosen't for me
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
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Gog
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by Gog » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:24 pm
Ki Breaker wrote:Gog wrote:
I never once expected to hear that sentence in my entire life
That's why it's in unpopular opinions..
I know he works for a lot of people but he simply dosen't for me
Oh well then, different strokes for different folks. But really you have to be a filthy ningen to not like him,
Are you a
ningen...
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Ki Breaker
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by Ki Breaker » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:27 pm
Gog wrote:But really you have to be a filthy ningen to not like him
Not quite sure how I should take this ..
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
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Gog
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by Gog » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:30 pm
Ki Breaker wrote:Gog wrote:But really you have to be a filthy ningen to not like him
Not quite sure how I should take this ..
*"YOU ARE A NINGEN REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!" Gog screamed* I kid, I kid.
new unpopular opinion.
Chilled's design is hot garbage
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Doctor.
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by Doctor. » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:40 pm
Ki Breaker wrote:I am not sure if I would call a boring character well written, if he was well written he wouldn't be boring..
If a character was written to be boring, then he would be well-written.
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Ki Breaker
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by Ki Breaker » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:43 pm
Doctor. wrote:Ki Breaker wrote:I am not sure if I would call a boring character well written, if he was well written he wouldn't be boring..
If a character was written to be boring, then he would be well-written.
Sure, but black wouldn't be written to be boring, yet he was..
The Lord moves in mysterious ways but you don't have to. Please use your blinker
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Gog
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by Gog » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:44 pm
I don't even hate him because of him being fat. I just hate his design. How, how does he exist, it's what I question everyday
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MyNiggaGoku
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by MyNiggaGoku » Wed Feb 01, 2017 4:54 pm
Resurrection 'F' is the absolute worst thing to come out of Toriyama's mind.I know that many people feel like this as well but way more love that movie (let's not talk about the arc) because it was the reason they got back to DB.I absolutely respect that but that does not change my opinion about this movie.It was entertaining(as most DB content tends to be) but quality wise,I think it's trash.
My Dragon Ball Super 'Canon'
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ekrolo2
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by ekrolo2 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:30 pm
I think Black manages to execute quite a few characteristics and blend them together quite well. He's just as bloodthirsty as other DB villains are but he's got a nice, classically hypocritical motivation that guides his actions. It also helps that unlike every Dragon Ball villain ever, he doesn't throw a generic bitch fit when things don't go his way, he's always laughing, always coming off like he's in-control and this already sets him apart from Freeza, Cell, Boo, and Piccolo. Even his reaction to Vegeta beating him is very understated and he quickly recovers from it.
The only thing I'd say is actually bad about Black is his origins making not one lick of sense and Future Zamasu having the appeal of a kitty porn snuff film. If Black avoids many of the pitfalls of post-Freeza DB bad guys, Future Zamasu spectacularly fails at avoiding ALL of the same problems that plague villains of his type.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
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Gog
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by Gog » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:38 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:I think Black manages to execute quite a few characteristics and blend them together quite well. He's just as bloodthirsty as other DB villains are but he's got a nice, classically hypocritical motivation that guides his actions. It also helps that unlike every Dragon Ball villain ever, he doesn't throw a generic bitch fit when things don't go his way, he's always laughing, always coming off like he's in-control and this already sets him apart from Freeza, Cell, Boo, and Piccolo. Even his reaction to Vegeta beating him is very understated and he quickly recovers from it.
The only thing I'd say is actually bad about Black is his origins making not one lick of sense and Future Zamasu having the appeal of a kitty porn snuff film. If Black avoids many of the pitfalls of post-Freeza DB bad guys, Future Zamasu spectacularly fails at avoiding ALL of the same problems that plague villains of his type.
iI actually like the fact that Future Zamasu has all of the same problems for all the other villains. It helps in setting Black apart from him.
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ekrolo2
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by ekrolo2 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:47 pm
Gog wrote:iI actually like the fact that Future Zamasu has all of the same problems for all the other villains. It helps in setting Black apart from him.
I don't, in fact, I don't know anyone who's had to deal with Aizen's bullshit can watch Zamasu and NOT want to blow their brains out. Hell, even Aizen has the whole "Master Troll" thing going on for some unintentional hilarity, Zamasu doesn't even have this. His speeches about Gods make progressively less sense and him being just as vile as Black lessens's Black's character. The point of Black being so blood thirsty works because he's in a Saiyan's body, having standard Zamasu just be the same way except not being able to shut the fuck up about his motivations doesn't work for me.
It's really weird, they fix a lot of DB villains problems with Black but then make the most generic, omnicidal "I can't shut the fuck up about how great I am!" bad guy in every anime story ever as his partner.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
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Doctor.
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by Doctor. » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:52 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:I don't know anyone who's had to deal with Aizen's bullshit can watch Zamasu and NOT want to blow their brains out.
Him getting repeatedly punched in the face makes up for his bullshit and present Zamasu's struggles are interesting.
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Gog
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by Gog » Wed Feb 01, 2017 5:57 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:Gog wrote:iI actually like the fact that Future Zamasu has all of the same problems for all the other villains. It helps in setting Black apart from him.
I don't, in fact, I don't know anyone who's had to deal with Aizen's bullshit can watch Zamasu and NOT want to blow their brains out. Hell, even Aizen has the whole "Master Troll" thing going on for some unintentional hilarity, Zamasu doesn't even have this. His speeches about Gods make progressively less sense and him being just as vile as Black lessens's Black's character. The point of Black being so blood thirsty works because he's in a Saiyan's body, having standard Zamasu just be the same way except not being able to shut the fuck up about his motivations doesn't work for me.
I, uh don't know who Aizen is... But it sounds like you don't particularly like him, I considered Zamasu's speeches and the fact that nobody seemed to take them seriously entertaining.
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ekrolo2
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by ekrolo2 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:12 pm
Doctor. wrote:ekrolo2 wrote:I don't know anyone who's had to deal with Aizen's bullshit can watch Zamasu and NOT want to blow their brains out.
Him getting repeatedly punched in the face makes up for his bullshit and present Zamasu's struggles are interesting.
I don't really find him being punched in the face funny or good enough of a comeuppance for him TBH. I would've liked him to realize that he was either wrong or doing this all for purely selfish reasons. The ending doesn't really do that, he doesn't lose by virtue of causing all this and suffering the consequences or because of humans proving him wrong, he dies because Goku had a convenient plot device to beat him.
Future Trunks and Mai working together to seal him in the Mafuba was a more thematically appropriate way for him to go even if it wouldn't be very satisfying of a conclusion for him.
When someone tells you, "Don't present your opinion as fact," what they're actually saying is, "Don't present your opinion with any conviction. Because I don't like your opinion, and I want to be able to dismiss it as easily as possible." Don't fall for it.
How the Black Arc Should End (by Lightbing!):
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Doctor.
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by Doctor. » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:14 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:
I don't really find him being punched in the face funny or good enough of a comeuppance for him TBH. I would've liked him to realize that he was either wrong or doing this all for purely selfish reasons. The ending doesn't really do that, he doesn't lose by virtue of causing all this and suffering the consequences or because of humans proving him wrong, he dies because Goku had a convenient plot device to beat him.
Future Trunks and Mai working together to seal him in the Mafuba was a more thematically appropriate way for him to go even if it wouldn't be very satisfying of a conclusion for him.
Don't get me wrong, he's not a good character. But I find him entertaining because the writers constantly parody the grand villain speeches by having Zamasu get his shit kicked in midway through. Plus, Shinichiro Miki is fantastic.
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kinisking
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by kinisking » Wed Feb 01, 2017 6:32 pm
ekrolo2 wrote:I think Black manages to execute quite a few characteristics and blend them together quite well. He's just as bloodthirsty as other DB villains are but he's got a nice, classically hypocritical motivation that guides his actions. It also helps that unlike every Dragon Ball villain ever, he doesn't throw a generic bitch fit when things don't go his way, he's always laughing, always coming off like he's in-control and this already sets him apart from Freeza, Cell, Boo, and Piccolo. Even his reaction to Vegeta beating him is very understated and he quickly recovers from it.
The only thing I'd say is actually bad about Black is his origins making not one lick of sense and Future Zamasu having the appeal of a kitty porn snuff film. If Black avoids many of the pitfalls of post-Freeza DB bad guys, Future Zamasu spectacularly fails at avoiding ALL of the same problems that plague villains of his type.
Yeah, these are the reasons I liked Black and Kid boo so much. The melt downs that so many villians had in dragonball got really old.
Jinzoningen MULE wrote: Maybe I should start making it a point not to comment when I'm not sure of something. Too many people know what they're talking about around here.
Disclaimer: I might get into a disagreement with you. Sometimes I might even get feisty about it. I'll never harbor negative feelings because of it though. I hope you feel the same way!
I made a bet with Alee9977 that Vegeta won't be beaten quickly by an opponent. If I lose, I switch my avatar to Vegeta getting beat by hit. If I win, he switches it to Vegeta holding Black by his hair. This will last a month.
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Cure Dragon 255
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by Cure Dragon 255 » Wed Feb 01, 2017 7:27 pm
Repeat after me.
The Japanese Version is not a dub.
The Japanese Version is not a dub.
The Japanese Version is not a dub.
The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.The Japanese Version is not a dub.