The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Mjb1985]

Of course. If Mutaito was above Goku who fought Young Piccolo he would have never needed the Mafuba. That filler really is unfortunate. It would have been perfectly placed prior to Goku drinking the poison, after that meh not so much.

[MDSTSSJ]

Movie 7 SSJ Kakarotto with the Genkidama absorbed Vs Semi Perfect Cell.

[RandomGuy96]

Semi-Perfect Cell tools him. Super 13 is likely weaker than 16.

Or Paikuhan one shotted a Cell that was vastly weaker than Ssj Goku.

Not really.

Paikuhan ( w/o weights ) > Ssj Goku > 50% Goku ~ Blazing Shot > 25% Goku ~ Base Cell

Pikkon > Super Perfect Cell > Perfect Cell > SS Goku works fine for me.

[Draken]

Semi-Perfect Cell tools him. Super 13 is likely weaker than 16.

Or Paikuhan one shotted a Cell that was vastly weaker than Ssj Goku.

Not really.

Paikuhan ( w/o weights ) > Ssj Goku > 50% Goku ~ Blazing Shot > 25% Goku ~ Base Cell

Paikuhan > Super Perfect Cell > Perfect Cell > SS Goku works fine for me.

So you have Goku beating a guy WELL over 2x stronger than him with a simple kamehameha that shouldn't have even phased the guy?

[RandomGuy96]

Yes. Normal Goku didn't land a single hit on Pikkon, despite him being noted to have powered up insanely fast since the Cell Games. Even when he caught Pikkon by surprise AND used techniques that doubled his power (Kamehameha and Super Kaioken) he still did absolutely no damage. Just pushed him a little. If Pikkon was at all close to Goku a surprise Kamehameha should've actually done something to the guy, as should a punch from someone supposedly twice his power (Super Kaioken Goku). And to me it seemed obvious that Pikkon was screwing around. He didn't have scratch on him while Goku could barley move, and yet Pikkon was still taunting him.

[Draken]

Yes. Normal Goku didn't land a single hit on Paikuhan, despite him being noted to have powered up insanely fast since the Cell Games. Even when he caught Paikuhan by surprise AND used techniques that doubled his power (Kamehameha and Super Kaioken) he still did absolutely no damage. Just pushed him a little.

When was it noted he powered up considerably since the Cell Games? This is almost immediately after the Cell Games from what I recall and he smashed Pikkon like hell with that Kamehameha. While people over 2x stronger than him (Freeza anyone) could easily fly through his Kamehameha. SPC could 1 shot Goku easily as shown when he could even damage SSJ2 Gohan. If Pikkon > SPC, then Pikkon > SSJ Goku and should have ended that in a second.

[RandomGuy96]

I remember that being posted on a thread here. Could've been inaccurate.

And no, Freeza couldn't simply fly through it. He had to put effort into deflecting Goku's kamehameha when he saw it coming, and even then it still hurt his hand. Pikkon got hit by a surprise attack that was well over twice as strong as its user (in a series where a surprise attack from someone dozens of times weaker than their opponent can send said opponent flying) and took zero damage from it. He also took zero damage from Super Kaioken Goku's punch.

Again, Goku couldn't do crap against Pikkon other than push him around a little bit.

And also Pikkon's fire kick or whatever it was can be stronger than Pikkon himself, but judging by the Kais reactions and the point of that scene Pikkon should still be stronger than Super Perfect Cell himself.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I'm interested in where he got that line as well.

[dbzfan7]

Yes. Normal Goku didn't land a single hit on Paikuhan, despite him being noted to have powered up insanely fast since the Cell Games. Even when he caught Paikuhan by surprise AND used techniques that doubled his power (Kamehameha and Super Kaioken) he still did absolutely no damage. Just pushed him a little.

When was it noted he powered up considerably since the Cell Games? This is almost immediately after the Cell Games from what I recall and he smashed Paikuhan like hell with that Kamehameha. While people over 2x stronger than him (Freeza anyone) could easily fly through his Kamehameha. SPC could 1 shot Goku easily as shown when he could even damage SSJ2 Gohan. If Paikuhan > SPC, then Paikuhan > SSJ Goku and should have ended that in a second.

I do not really put much into attack multipliers as they are never really looked into.

On the fight I can not see Goku fighting someone who can one shot Super Perfect Cell. If they kept Paikuhan that strong the fight would have been over in a few seconds.

[Draken]

I remember that being posted on a thread here. Could've been inaccurate.

And no, Freeza couldn't simply fly through it. He had to put effort into deflecting Goku's kamehameha when he saw it coming, and even then it still hurt his hand. Paikuhan got hit by a surprise attack that was well over twice as strong as its user (in a series where a surprise attack from someone dozens of times weaker than their opponent can send said opponent flying) and took zero damage from it. He also took zero damage from Super Kaioken Goku's punch.

Again, Goku couldn't do crap against Paikuhan other than push him around a little bit.

Where does it say the kamehameha was 2x stronger than him? There's no set multiplier. If the kamehameha = 2x stronger, then Goku's kamehameha against Freeza would be 3x20x2 = 120 million. Which would be Freeza's max power. Which we know Freeza obviously was not at. If Pikkon was > SPC, then he could have one-shot Goku more easily than SPC did Trunks and Vegeta.

Again, if he was stronger than a fully powered up SPC, Goku wouldn't exist anymore.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I could see Goku being right in the middle of #16 and Semi-Cell after absorbing the Genki-Dama, so he'd likely lose once Cell decides to go full-power.

I believe it was Kaio saying Goku was a lot stronger since the Cell Games. Can't quite remember, but I'm 99% sure I saw the line in the Japanese subtitles.

[RandomGuy96]

It seemed obvious to me Pikkon was just having fun. Goku couldn't do anything against him and Pikkon was obviously suppressing his power for at least one part of the fight. Why not for the rest?

Also nothing he did against Pikkon couldn't have been done by someone who was half of Pikkon's strength. If anything, someone half of Pikkon's strength should've been able to do more with a surprise amplified attack.

[Mjb1985]

Kamehameha was 2.22x in the Saiyan Saga of all places. Goku's Kamehameha against Freeza and Pikkon of all people should be significantly superior to that.

Hopefully someone can get the quote. I'd like to see that, that would be huge for Pikkon.

[dbzfan7]

Movie 7 SSJ Kakarotto with the Genkidama absorbed Vs Semi Perfect Cell.

I think Goku's got this. Derek's Genki Dama article explains why on his website.

[Draken]

It seemed obvious to me Paikuhan was just having fun. Goku couldn't do anything against him and Paikuhan was obviously suppressing his power for at least one part of the fight. Why not for the rest?

Also nothing he did against Paikuhan couldn't have been done by someone who was half of Paikuhan's strength.

If he was toying why bother taking off his weights?

His blast that stalemated with Pikkon's begs to differ. Nappa vs Goku (half strength) didn't even budge Goku once.

[RandomGuy96]

Hopefully someone can get the quote. I'd like to see that, that would be huge for Paikuhan.

Why? Him taking no damage from Super Kaioken Goku should be a more impressive show of power than easily beating someone weaker than Buu Arc SS Goku.

His blast that stalemated with Paikuhan's begs to differ. Nappa vs Goku (half strength) didn't even budge Goku once.

In Toeiland, stalemating a blast means crap. Bojack stalemated Gohan's. Also I wouldn't call that a stalemate. Goku's full power beam was quickly and effortlessly overwhelmed by one of Pikkon's casual blasts in under ten seconds.

In that entire battle, Goku only ever landed two hits, and not only could he only land those hits with special techniques (therefore they don't say much about strength), but they did almost no damage to Pikkon. At most they did about as much damage as one of 100% Freeza's punches to Goku, or 70% Freeza's death beam to Goku's face. Like, yeah, I guess it hurt and pushed him back, but it did not affect his ability to fight in any way or leave any permanent damage. By the end of the fight Pikkon didn't have scratch on him.

[Draken]

Hopefully someone can get the quote. I'd like to see that, that would be huge for Paikuhan.

Why? Him taking no damage from Super Kaioken Goku should be a more impressive show of power than easily beating someone weaker than Buu Arc SS Goku.

His blast that stalemated with Paikuhan's begs to differ. Nappa vs Goku (half strength) didn't even budge Goku once.

In Toeiland, stalemating a blast means crap. Bojack stalemated Gohan's.

SPC = probably around 2x of Gohan's normal SSJ2, seeing as Gohan SSJ2 half power enraged could defeat SPC. So Goku (weaker than Gohan, unless the quote asked by mjb is provided) with Super Kaioken would be weaker than Gohan's normal SSJ2, aka half of SPC, aka he would take no damage. Nappa vs Goku, Vegeta vs Goku, Goku vs Freeza, etc etc are all examples of this. Against Nappa he tanked a ki blast with no damage, Vegeta vs Goku (before kaioken) Vegeta also took no damage, Goku vs Freeza using a kaioken which, apparently, has a 2x multiplier, means Freeza at 2x Goku before adding kamehameha tanked a 120 million blast with 60 million power level and only singed his hand.

I'm not arguing that Pikkon is stronger than Goku. I'm arguing that he's stronger than SPC. Because everything Pikkon did to Goku (uh, hitting him with his most powerful attack twice?) speaks that he's only a little stronger, not 2-4x stronger.

[Kid Buu]

Okay, going a bit out of the DB realm here, but keeping it Shonen!

Sakura (from Naruto Shippuden) vs

1.) Videl
2.) Chichi
3.) #18

So basically the females of DB, I'm pretty sure she can't take 18...but I'm mostly curious about the first two.

[dbzfan7]

Okay, going a bit out of the DB realm here, but keeping it Shonen!

Sakura (from Naruto Shippuden) vs

1.) Videl
2.) Chichi
3.) #18

So basically the females of DB, I'm pretty sure she can't take 18...but I'm mostly curious about the first two.

18 demolishes her without any effort. She could beat Videl no problem. Though I don't know enough about her to gauge if she can beat Chi Chi. I just went with the obvious I know

[RandomGuy96]

SPC = probably around 2x of Gohan's normal SSJ2, seeing as Gohan SSJ2 half power enraged could defeat SPC. So Goku (weaker than Gohan, unless the quote asked by mjb is provided) with Super Kaioken would be weaker than Gohan's normal SSJ2, aka half of SPC, aka he would take no damage. Nappa vs Goku, Vegeta vs Goku, Goku vs Freeza, etc etc are all examples of this. Against Nappa he tanked a ki blast with no damage, Vegeta vs Goku (before kaioken) Vegeta also took no damage, Goku vs Freeza using a kaioken which, apparently, has a 2x multiplier, means Freeza at 2x Goku before adding kamehameha tanked a 120 million blast with 60 million power level and only singed his hand.

Wait, what? Gohan at half power could lose badly to SPC and beat him with help from Vegeta. But that aside, how did you get SPC being twice as strong as non-crippled SS2 Gohan?

Goku tanked nothing against Nappa. Also, another example of why Pikkon being this strong makes sense from the Cell fight: Super Perfect Cell, generally agreed to be weaker than Gohan, fires a quick uncharged blast. Gohan sees the blast coming, takes it, and takes a shit ton of damage. Goku uses an amplified and charged Kamehameha against Pikkon. Pikkon doesn't see it coming and takes no damage at all.

I'm not arguing that Paikuhan is stronger than Goku. I'm arguing that he's stronger than SPC. Because everything Paikuhan did to Goku (uh, hitting him with his most powerful attack twice?) speaks that he's only a little stronger, not 2-4x stronger.

I don't think he was really trying to kill Goku, and I don't discount the possibility he was just playing around. Remember, no one is surprised that he beat Cell, and that was a pretty obvious "OMG HE'S STRONGER THAN CELL!" scene. And again he received no damage from attacks that were supposedly twice as strong as him. If he was only a little stronger than Goku then Goku should've been able to manage SOMETHING, but he couldn't lay a finger on Pikkon. It was almost exactly like Goku vs Nappa except Goku had a few tricks whereas Nappa didn't.