MistareFusion's Dragon Ball Dissection! (Updated 2/16/26!)

[Kid Buu]

At what point was Vegeta revealed to be the Saiyan Prince? I ask because I remember talking to you about this once a very long time ago, but couldn't find anything in my PM box about it.

[RandomGuy96]

I do remember him thinking to himself that he may have more trouble conquering the world than he thought, after facing Krillin in the 1st round.

That makes it sound like the others aren't quite as outclassed as people like to think, especially given Piccolo's exhaustion by that point.

Except Kami immediately said he was right, and that none of them could do shit to a half-dead Piccolo.

Yet Kami could stop a full punch that Piccolo aimed at Goku, which made Goku mad because he didn't want help.

Why exactly couldn't Kami do the same thing if Piccolo tried to attack one of the others? And while he was stopped by Kami, why wouldn't the others attack Piccolo? Not to mention that when Kami stopped Piccolo's punch he wasn't as exhausted as when he thought Goku was dead, and Piccolo fell unconscious with just an head butt from an half dead Goku at that point. The humans together with Kami wouldn't be able to strike Piccolo with an attack as powerful as a head butt from an half dead Goku, considering their fights with Piccolo, Goku and Kami at the tournament?

Honestly, the others thinking that they couldn't do anything to Piccolo at that point seems more like the story trying to achieve more tension than it being coherent with itself.

Because blocking a punch isn't the same thing as actually being able to fight, and if the others attacked Piccolo nothing would happen. Yes, according to the series itself, all of the supporting characters together couldn't muster an attack as strong as headbutt from a half-dead Goku. While that might seem weird in the case of Kami, the humans had done nothing to prove they weren't bugs to Piccolo, Goku, and Kami. They all stomped the humans without trying.

Yeah, it doesn't make a lot of sense considering the fight with Vegeta in the Saiyan arc. But that's what's stated.

[rereboy]

Which is why i stated that at this point the series is more concerned about the tension than actually being consistent. We either assume that Piccolo is bluffing and the gang is startled because they are shaken up by Goku dying, or we assume its true but then we treat it as a plothole because its what it basically is. At least, in my opinion. I won't start a debate over it.

[Gaffer Tape]

At what point was Vegeta revealed to be the Saiyan Prince? I ask because I remember talking to you about this once a very long time ago, but couldn't find anything in my PM box about it.

Vegeta is first mentioned to be the prince by Dodoria when the latter is explaining to the former the true story behind Planet Vegeta's destruction.

[RandomGuy96]

You can say that Vegeta being royalty was implied earlier- Nappa calls himself a Saiyan elite and a member of the nobility, while Vegeta calls himself a super-elite but never elaborates on what that means compared to just being an elite/noble like Nappa.

[Kid Buu]

Also do the Dr. Slump films you watched reference DB, or to they just cater to the first Dr. Slump cartoon?

I wish Discotek would rescue Urusei Yatsura damnit.

[Gaffer Tape]

Well, three of the five were released before Dragon Ball even existed, and the latter two came out before anyone cared about Dragon Ball, so, no, there are no references to Dragon Ball.

[Kid Buu]

Ah okay. I'm kind of surprised the series isn't more popular here, since Toriyama said he made Dr. Slump more American-like (while Dragon Ball is more Chinese-like), but I guess anime/manga wasn't much of a presence here in the US during the 80s.

[matt0044]

I can't wait to see you video on the Bardock TV special and History of Trunks. I know those will be worth the wait.

[Gaffer Tape]

Funnily enough, I just watched the Bardock Special and took notes on it today. It also, by sheer coincidence, happens to be the Bardock Special's 24th anniversary.

[Kid Buu]

Watched Bardock Special and here are my thoughts:

-A lot of people think Shigeru Chiba should have voiced Bardock instead of Nozawa. I disagree, mainly because Bardock doesn't come across as evil as Raditz or Vegeta. I leave out Nappa because he was a Saint who saved Planet Earth from the Evil Demon King Piccolo.

-Bardock has a power level of 10,000 and is a low-class? Actually I don't know how strength systems even work with the inconsistent Zenkais they get.

-Vegeta defeats Yamcha, Tenshinhan, and Piccolo at the same time in a jobber showdown.

-Zarbon mentions that Freeza fears the Saiyans ganging up on him, and this special supports that. It seems Toriyama would later retcon this.

-Bardock wants Goku to avenge the Saiyans, while Vegeta doesn't care. So yeah, I don't get this "Bardock was pure evil bastard" that people have been saying on here. He seems to have some redeeming qualities, while Vegeta has none.

[Gaffer Tape]

I don't see how wanting revenge over the fact that he and his people were tricked, betrayed, and killed makes him any less evil. I mean, it's certainly an understandable motivation, but it's hardly noble. If anything, it just shows how much MORE evil and callous Vegeta is by comparison.

[Kid Buu]

Because it shows that he at least gives a fuck about his race, while Vegeta is the most evil character in the series. Dainao, Freeza, Cell, and Buu all show more compassion than Vegeta does.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't see how wanting revenge over the fact that he and his people were tricked, betrayed, and killed makes him any less evil. I mean, it's certainly an understandable motivation, but it's hardly noble. If anything, it just shows how much MORE evil and callous Vegeta is by comparison.

The point was that Bardock, at the very least, seemed to care about his 'friends' and race. That's one of the things I liked about the Bardock special. Along with some of the dialogue from Raditz and Nappa, it underlines that the saiyans, while evil, are still "human", not just cartoon characters (well, they ARE, but you know what I mean). Raditz tries to get his brother to join him, reminding him of his saiyan roots and their blood ties. Nappa initially wants to wish Raditz back to life, is repeatedly shocked by Vegeta's brutality (killing the Cultivar, blowing up Arlia in filler), and asked Vegeta for help when injured under the assumption that he'd get it, which could be indicative of some saiyan code of honor (if anyone would know about that, it'd be a member of the nobility from before the meteor). Bardock is enraged by the death of his team, and ties a bandana stained with their blood to his forehead as a reminder of what Freeza did.

Then we have Vegeta, who is a psychopath even by saiyan standards. He refuses to wish Raditz back to life, says he deserved to die, explicitly says he didn't give a shit about all the saiyans who died on Vegeta (including his dad!), and kills Nappa himself simply because he had no use for him anymore. He then tried to kill the only other surviving saiyan, Goku. I liked that Vegeta was so monstrous that even the other saiyans are less evil than/terrified of him. That's one of the reasons he and Nappa have the best henchman/boss relationship.

Unrelated, but does anyone like the original explanation for his name better than the retcon? In the Saiyan arc, he was named Vegeta because that was the name of the planet. He was so freaking strong, and so representative of everything the saiyans were, that they named him after the planet. That's super badass.

[Gaffer Tape]

I'm not arguing against a well-rounded villain, or that I want just a "completely evil" villain. Hell, I love The Godfather films, and the main characters there come off as very sympathetic. They care about and take care of their families. They take umbrage at anyone harming their own. Doesn't make what they do any less amoral, though. I like Bardock's motivations too. I like that he's better than Vegeta. When he stares death in the face, I feel for him. But I don't think any of those things mitigate the idea that he's an evil sack of shit who deserved to die.

[RandomGuy96]

I'm not arguing against a well-rounded villain, or that I want just a "completely evil" villain. Hell, I love The Godfather films, and the main characters there come off as very sympathetic. They care about and take care of their families. They take umbrage at anyone harming their own. Doesn't make what they do any less amoral, though. I like Bardock's motivations too. I like that he's better than Vegeta. When he stares death in the face, I feel for him. But I don't think any of those things mitigate the idea that he's an evil sack of shit who deserved to die.

No one is saying Bardock is good, just that he has some redeeming qualities (e.g. he cared about his squad) and is not pure evil. None of the saiyans are, except Vegeta in the first arc (and maybe the next one, too).

Unrelated, but I have a slight distaste for the Godfather films due to what you brought up. I know that the point was to show the opposite, but they spent way too much time portraying the criminals as sympathetic, "honorable", and "cool", when sacks of shit like that should never seriously be glorified.

[Gaffer Tape]

DBD TV: The Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc

Dragon Ball Dissection returns with a brief detour to the television adaptation. This time we go back to the first DB story arc and lots and lots of Pilaf!

[RandomGuy96]

DBD TV: The Hunt for the Dragon Balls Arc

Dragon Ball Dissection returns with a brief detour to the television adaptation. This time we go back to the first DB story arc and lots and lots of Pilaf!

A new DBD AND Freeman's Mind Episode 61 on the same day? I must be lucky.

Not much to say on this episode right now. It was interesting enough, but I never really liked the first arc enough to discuss it. It's curious how you don't mention Puar > Yamcha in the anime, though.

[JulieYBM]

[Insert screen capture of Pilaf blushing here]

The 1986 animated series really did improve upon the story of the comic, I think. The actors and the dialogue all had a wonderful chemistry that was channeled masterfully by Audio Director Komatsu Nobuhiro and the various episode directors. Dragon Ball and Dragon Ball Z are definitely two of Toei Animation's sharpest works in that regard. The Pilaf material added for the animated series definitely became priceless thanks to Chiba Shigeru, Genda Tesshou, and Yamada Eiko's chemistry. The great thing about Chiba's work is how easily he shifts gears in the role without taking time to stop, the performance of every word and line feels like it's a single, uniform take. Given that re-takes were such a pain in the neck the analogue days it is really no surprise the level of tension, care and quality is just that high.

I'm glad you touched up on the animation supervisors and studios, too. Animators like Obara Tai'ichirou and Shida Naotoshi play just as important a role in helping to define the characters as any other member of an episode or film's staff. I've always wondered what happened to Uchiyama's contacts that eventually he and Obara wound up the only two key animators for later episodes of Dragon Ball Z. Shida, we know, left to join Toei Animation, but stuck with the franchise. Did Dragon Ball Z's schedule become so short that Uchiyama and Obara wound up the only of their contacts quick enough to draw cuts as often as they did?

Regarding the sketchiness of some of the Maeda Minoru episodes, I believe you are referring to a few of the cuts by Eguchi Hisashi (104, 112, 119, 125, 132, 139, 146, 153). I seem to remember he did a rather sketchy action sequence once to give it that extra intensity, but I can't remember which off the top of my head.

Episode #14 introduces our sixth animation supervisor for the series, freelancer Aoshima Katsumi. Aoshima did all of the key animation for a number of episodes (14, 21, 28, 35, 51, 59, 66, 73, 100, 107, 117), but eventually he began having other key animators help him provide the key animation, likely due to a shorter schedule or the character designs becoming too complicated for him to draw in the amount of time he had up until then. Aoshima also did key animation for Episode #8, so it's likely he was brought onto the series due to a connection to Maeda Minoru.

Speaking of Maeda, the only time he ever did key animation for the franchise was Dragon Ball Episode #22 and Episode #29. Otherwise he simply corrected other key animators' work or helped teach.

[Kid Buu]

--Update your signature dude!

--You consider Pilaf the final boss, and not Oozaru Goku?

--I'm surprised you didn't cover the brief Gyumao battle, since I recall you talking about him getting too much build-up and not enough payoff. At least the fight gives him some payoff, but not really enough.

--There should be a Filler Yamcha awesomeness count like the Blooma panty count, I mean the gag goes all the way until the final arc! At the least, I demand coverage for "Wolf Hurricane" at the 22nd Budokai.

--You're not going to cover voice acting and the score? Granted, I didn't think you were going to in the first place, but since you are covering animation...