"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[Baggie_Saiyan]

Why they always make this stuff region locked? What's even the point to do that?
I want to read their translation too.

Funimation does same thing with their videos. Is there any logic behind this? Because I don't see any.

"We have this awesome cool stuff to show, but only people from our country can see it."
Just seems selfish to me.

All about licensing, majority of the time they are only allowed to show licensed stuff within US and Canada, nothing about being selfish.

[kidhero1000]

Can we get a proper translation to chapter 13? Jesus! Mangastream's version got my stomach churning something fierce and leaving a bitter aftertaste in my mouth.

[Xeztin]

Can we get a proper translation to chapter 13? Jesus! Mangastream's version got my stomach churning something fierce and leaving a bitter aftertaste in my mouth.

I honestly didn't get a hip hop vibe from the Omni-King, it stated he spoke casually probably using words like 'cuz instead of because. Even though it's a weird translation or whatever, it sort of fits the character as a Toriyama character, meaning no one is like you expect them to be. Take Boo as an example. Though, Hit had a line or two that felt a bit off for his character.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

That's not at all what Zeno is supposed to talk like. He's supposed to take cutely, like a child. Dragon Team was pretty much on the dot, though their use of "see" may not have been the most fitting? My fiance suggested "you know" would be a better replacement.

[FortuneSSJ]

-Chapter 13-
After reading this, I have to say I liked this way more that I thought I would.

I have mixed feelings about SSG return.
On one hand it's my favourite form and I'm glad it's back. On other hand I'm pissed how much different this is from the anime version.
Both Toyotaro and Toei get Toriyama's outline so how it's possible to have a major difference like this?

Didn't Toriyama like SSB+Kaioken because it makes the gap between Goku and Beerus much smaller, and like he said, he was no plans for Goku/Vegeta to surprass Beerus yet? Or it was other thing? I feel this major difference unnecessary. Is SSG return even Toriyama suggestion or Toyotaro just came up with the idea himself?

I would appreciate some clarification from them for this major difference.

What I liked the most in this chapter was when Goku explained why Hit keeps his hands in his pockets, while fighting. Such a nice detail is welcome and the anime missed that.

Things that I definitely didn't like:
- Goku SSG > Vegeta SSB. Both trained 3 years together in the Time Chamber. Makes more sense to me Goku SSB = SSB Vegeta (or a little stronger) and SSB+Kaioken to be what gives Goku the upper hand. I didn't notice Goku/Vegeta being much stronger in the manga, than they were in ROF arc to be honest.

- Goku/Vegeta being stronger the Hit, when it comes to power.

- Hit constantly surprised by Goku's moves and he didn't get any character development.

Curious stuff:
- In the manga Whis and vados also bow down to Omni-Kingm, while in the anime they don't.

Overall I like the anime version much more, but both versions have one obvious thing in common:
- Goku vs Hit was the best fight of this arc.

A shame the anime version didn't make justice to Beerus vs Champa fight.
Oh well, next chapter Future Trunks arc!

[dbgtFO]

I have mixed feelings about SSG return.
On one hand it's my favourite form and I'm glad it's back. On other hand I'm pissed how much different this is from the anime version.
Both Toyotaro and Toei get Toriyama's outline so how it's possible to have a major difference like this?

Didn't Toriyama like SSB+Kaioken because it makes the gap between Goku and Beerus much smaller, and like he said, he was no plans for Goku/Vegeta to surprass Beerus yet? Or it was other thing? I feel this major difference unnecessary. Is SSG return even Toriyama suggestion or Toyotaro just came up with the idea himself?

I would appreciate some clarification from them for this major difference.

Toei bullshit just like with Paikuhan. Almost certainly it was that King Ryu guy, who came up with it. About as dubious as Botamo sending damage to a different dimension("probably" as Jaco would say).

Things that I definitely didn't like:
- Goku SSG > Vegeta SSB. Both trained 3 years together in the Time Chamber. Makes more sense to me Goku SSB = SSB Vegeta (or a little stronger) and SSB+Kaioken to be what gives Goku the upper hand. I didn't notice Goku/Vegeta being much stronger in the manga, than they were in ROF arc to be honest.

Goku's SSG is only stated to be stronger than less than a tenth of Blue Vegeta, not full power Blue Vegeta.
No reason to think that Goku is a lot stronger than Vegeta in the manga, as far as we know it just goes like this:

Blue Vegeta(vs Hit/less than 10%) < SSG Goku < SSB Vegeta(Full Power) = SSB Goku.

[FortuneSSJ]

Toei bullshit just like with Paikuhan. Almost certainly it was that King Ryu guy, who came up with it. About as dubious as Botamo sending damage to a different dimension("probably" as Jaco would say).

I don't find bullshit to be honest. People always wondered why Goku never used Kaioken with SSJ before (in canon), and Toei just came up with an explanation and brought it back.
I love it and accept it, because Goku trained 3 years in Time Chamber and I was expecting he came up with a new move.

SSG return on other hand is questionable, because the plot always made it sound like it was a one time thing.
Goku absorbed some of that power during his battle against Beerus, and that made him stronger. Which in Heroes they call it Saiyan Beyond God.

Because of that, the difference between SBG and SSG should be little, and that's why there shouldn't be any point in using that form again.
There's no SSG moment in ROF Movie or ROF arc. Instead Goku learnt to use his God Ki to turn SSJ and got SSB, which is much better.

I remember that Goku still used SSG alone in BOG Movie, but that always seemed to be just a desperation move before SSG power disappear forever.

-About Botamo ability description-
That is just a fancy way they found to say he doesn't take damage. Nothing more, nothing less.

[ekrolo2]

Toei bullshit just like with Paikuhan. Almost certainly it was that King Ryu guy, who came up with it. About as dubious as Botamo sending damage to a different dimension("probably" as Jaco would say).

I don't find bullshit to be honest. People always wondered why Goku never used Kaioken with SSJ before (in canon), and Toei just came up with an explanation and brought it back.
I love it and accept it, because Goku trained 3 years in Time Chamber and I was expecting he came up with a new move.

SSG return on other hand is questionable, because the plot always made it sound like it was a one time thing.
Goku absorbed some of that power during his battle against Beerus, and that made him stronger. Which in Heroes they call it Saiyan Beyond God.

Because of that, the difference between SBG and SSG should be little, and that's why there shouldn't be any point in using that form again.
There's no SSG moment in ROF Movie or ROF arc. Instead Goku learnt to use his God Ki to turn SSJ and got SSB, which is much better.

I remember that Goku still used SSG alone in BOG Movie, but that always seemed to be just a desperation move before SSG power disappear forever.

-About Botamo ability description-
That is just a fancy way they found to say he doesn't take damage. Nothing more, nothing less.

None of which is in the manga, the absorption into Base, it being gone forever. Honestly, I see it no different then Toei deciding to bring back KK. Except, KKs return requires Super Saiyan's mastery to get retconned so Super Saiyan with a blue paint job can be the bestest, most perfect form of them all.

[Neon Z]

SSG return on other hand is questionable, because the plot always made it sound like it was a one time thing.
Goku absorbed some of that power during his battle against Beerus, and that made him stronger. Which in Heroes they call it Saiyan Beyond God.

In the movie though, it's still noted that he lost some power going from the actual Super Saiyan God form to Base and SSJ, and at the end of the battle SSJ God is shown as a last second power up saving the day. Personally, I prefer keeping SSJ God as an intermediate level between SSJ and SSJB than what the anime did in the last episode - bringing back SSJ2 and 3 as power ups above SSJ. Those forms really clash with the Beerus battle, since if Goku could still gain power from using them there's no reason for him to stick with SSJ1 there, especially considering how he was losing, so he clearly wasn't holding back.

There's no SSG moment in ROF Movie or ROF arc. Instead Goku learnt to use his God Ki to turn SSJ and got SSB, which is much better.

In RoF, they also didn't mention that SSB had an energy/stamina drain though, and Goku went straight from base to it, without bothering with SSJ. Either way you look at it (anime or manga), Goku fights without it in the beginning of his battle against Hit due to its stamina drain, so it's clear that the concept of SSJB changed a bit between the RoF arc and the Universe 6 tournament.

[alakazam^]

None of which is in the manga, the absorption into Base, it being gone forever. Honestly, I see it no different then Toei deciding to bring back KK. Except, KKs return requires Super Saiyan's mastery to get retconned so Super Saiyan with a blue paint job can be the bestest, most perfect form of them all.

Why does it retcon anything? Them mastering Super Saiyajin was to remove the strain it had on their bodies, it has nothing to do with Kaiouken.

Their training to keep their ki from leaking out enables them a vastly superior ki control, which is what Kaiouken needs. So, it's only logical that Goku tried the Kaiouken when Blue and didn't try any other times because he didn't need to anyway.

[Kishido]

So read the scanlation and do not like anything about it.

Not only the return of the red form with the question if Vegeta has red as well.

And lol at the stamina issues... Against Frieza in both anime and movie the mocked him for his stamina and now Blue is consuming the stamina much as wel

[Chelentano]

So read the scanlation and do not like anything about it.

Not only the return of the red form with the question if Vegeta has red as well.

And lol at the stamina issues... Against Frieza in both anime and movie the mocked him for his stamina and now Blue is consuming the stamina much as wel

It's not Blue form consuming stamina, it's to transform repeatedly into Blue. If Vegeta wouldn't have gone Blue versus Cabba, he would have won versus Hit. This had been explained in the manga chapter and several times right here.

[ekrolo2]

None of which is in the manga, the absorption into Base, it being gone forever. Honestly, I see it no different then Toei deciding to bring back KK. Except, KKs return requires Super Saiyan's mastery to get retconned so Super Saiyan with a blue paint job can be the bestest, most perfect form of them all.

Why does it retcon anything? Them mastering Super Saiyajin was to remove the strain it had on their bodies, it has nothing to do with Kaiouken.

Their training to keep their ki from leaking out enables them a vastly superior ki control, which is what Kaiouken needs. So, it's only logical that Goku tried the Kaiouken when Blue and didn't try any other times because he didn't need to anyway.

Goku and Old Kai specifically talk about how stressful physically and emotionally Super Saiyan is as if it wasn't mastered when Goku and Gohan walk around it in for 10 days as casually as their base form. Once again showing the emotional and physical mastery achieved by them. Now? Doesn't count, Blooper needs to be the best, most perfect transformation ever so KK can come back.

[alakazam^]

Goku and Old Kai specifically talk about how stressful physically and emotionally Super Saiyan is as if it wasn't mastered when Goku and Gohan walk around it in for 10 days as casually as their base form. Once again showing the emotional and physical mastery achieved by them. Now? Doesn't count, Blooper needs to be the best, most perfect transformation ever so KK can come back.

When do they talk about that?

Again, being used to the form doesn't mean they have better ki control in it. You need to deal with the fact Blue is better, as it's only logical it would be.

[ekrolo2]

Goku and Old Kai specifically talk about how stressful physically and emotionally Super Saiyan is as if it wasn't mastered when Goku and Gohan walk around it in for 10 days as casually as their base form. Once again showing the emotional and physical mastery achieved by them. Now? Doesn't count, Blooper needs to be the best, most perfect transformation ever so KK can come back.

When do they talk about that?

Again, being used to the form doesn't mean they have better ki control in it. You need to deal with the fact Blue is better, as it's only logical it would be.

They talk about that when Goku activates Kaio-ken in the anime with Blue.

And Blue is only better by virtue of regular Super Saiyan's mastery being retconned for it. Super Saiyan, upon its mastery in the Cell Saga, has such good ki control they can drop their strength to normal human levels in it, essentially making it a better base form than their actual base forms. Now? Doesn't count.

To me, the manga's version makes more sense. God is already shown being a short-lived form that doesn't last long so it only makes sense that an even more upgraded form of it, its Super Saiyan equivalent would be a costly transformation. Until it too is mastered.

[jplaya2023]

So read the scanlation and do not like anything about it.

Not only the return of the red form with the question if Vegeta has red as well.

And lol at the stamina issues... Against Frieza in both anime and movie the mocked him for his stamina and now Blue is consuming the stamina much as wel

It's not Blue form consuming stamina, it's to transform repeatedly into Blue. If Vegeta wouldn't have gone Blue versus Cabba, he would have won versus Hit. This had been explained in the manga chapter and several times right here.

but the thing is vegeta was ss blue for maybe less then a minute. It was implied that to get to blue you had to have perfect chi control with both your god power and ssj power. So vegeta having stamina issues with blue to me makes no sense

[ekrolo2]

So read the scanlation and do not like anything about it.

Not only the return of the red form with the question if Vegeta has red as well.

And lol at the stamina issues... Against Frieza in both anime and movie the mocked him for his stamina and now Blue is consuming the stamina much as wel

It's not Blue form consuming stamina, it's to transform repeatedly into Blue. If Vegeta wouldn't have gone Blue versus Cabba, he would have won versus Hit. This had been explained in the manga chapter and several times right here.

but the thing is vegeta was ss blue for maybe less then a minute. It was implied that to get to blue you had to have perfect chi control with both your god power and ssj power. So vegeta having stamina issues with blue to me makes no sense

Nothing of the sort is said in the manga. All we know is that Goku and Vegeta trained with Whis, got Blue and that was it. Nothing of Whis' training such as his ROSAT or the whole "ki leaking thing" which the anime abandoned a few episodes afterward is there. The only issues arise if you try to apply anime or movie facts into a separate continuity with different rules.

[dbzfan7]

Goku and Old Kai specifically talk about how stressful physically and emotionally Super Saiyan is as if it wasn't mastered when Goku and Gohan walk around it in for 10 days as casually as their base form. Once again showing the emotional and physical mastery achieved by them. Now? Doesn't count, Blooper needs to be the best, most perfect transformation ever so KK can come back.

When do they talk about that?

Again, being used to the form doesn't mean they have better ki control in it. You need to deal with the fact Blue is better, as it's only logical it would be.

They talk about that when Goku activates Kaio-ken in the anime with Blue.

And Blue is only better by virtue of regular Super Saiyan's mastery being retconned for it. Super Saiyan, upon its mastery in the Cell Saga, has such good ki control they can drop their strength to normal human levels in it, essentially making it a better base form than their actual base forms. Now? Doesn't count.

To me, the manga's version makes more sense. God is already shown being a short-lived form that doesn't last long so it only makes sense that an even more upgraded form of it, its Super Saiyan equivalent would be a costly transformation. Until it too is mastered.

Yes the form that sucks the crap out of your ki and stamina gives perfect ki control. That makes sense . The form with such perfect ki control, that you can't even use it often without risk of draining yourself. Guess base form never had perfect ki control, so Goku should never have been able to use Kaio-Ken at all in the saiyan arc. Meanwhile SSJ is basically a non straining, non draining form, that's control is so good, Vegeta comments on how they feel normal.

[ekrolo2]

Yes the form that sucks the crap out of your ki and stamina gives perfect ki control. That makes sense . The form with such perfect ki control, that you can't even use it often without risk of draining yourself. Guess base form never had perfect ki control, so Goku should never have been able to use Kaio-Ken at all in the saiyan arc. Meanwhile SSJ is basically a non straining, non draining form, that's control is so good, Vegeta comments on how they feel normal.

Funny you mention the base form, cause given how Goku powers it down just to match transformations with Trunks when he could've done it in base, I wouldn't be surprised that implied Goku can't control his base form anymore either

[dbzfan7]

Yes the form that sucks the crap out of your ki and stamina gives perfect ki control. That makes sense . The form with such perfect ki control, that you can't even use it often without risk of draining yourself. Guess base form never had perfect ki control, so Goku should never have been able to use Kaio-Ken at all in the saiyan arc. Meanwhile SSJ is basically a non straining, non draining form, that's control is so good, Vegeta comments on how they feel normal.

Funny you mention the base form, cause given how Goku powers it down just to match transformations with Trunks when he could've done it in base, I wouldn't be surprised that implied Goku can't control his base form anymore either

What about keeping ki inside and not leaking as that's how it works somehow as that was a line said once and never said again. Meanwhile watch as Goku complete ignores that as he flares his ki all the damn time. Hell Beerus flares his ki all the time too when he fights. Need we to forget Goku and Beerus' Jojo stands.