"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[ekrolo2]

Yes the form that sucks the crap out of your ki and stamina gives perfect ki control. That makes sense . The form with such perfect ki control, that you can't even use it often without risk of draining yourself. Guess base form never had perfect ki control, so Goku should never have been able to use Kaio-Ken at all in the saiyan arc. Meanwhile SSJ is basically a non straining, non draining form, that's control is so good, Vegeta comments on how they feel normal.

Funny you mention the base form, cause given how Goku powers it down just to match transformations with Trunks when he could've done it in base, I wouldn't be surprised that implied Goku can't control his base form anymore either

What about keeping ki inside and not leaking as that's how it works somehow as that was a line said once and never said again. Meanwhile watch as Goku complete ignores that as he flares his ki all the damn time. Hell Beerus flares his ki all the time too when he fights. Need we to forget Goku and Beerus' Jojo stands.

Or Whis' ROSAT that everyone conveniently forgets about even though Goku & Vegeta would've gotten much better practice done in it during the three-day preparation than the old, Earth one. So yeah, we can safely chalk up these ideas as something the anime staff needed for very small period of time then completely forgot about.

[dbzfan7]

Funny you mention the base form, cause given how Goku powers it down just to match transformations with Trunks when he could've done it in base, I wouldn't be surprised that implied Goku can't control his base form anymore either

What about keeping ki inside and not leaking as that's how it works somehow as that was a line said once and never said again. Meanwhile watch as Goku complete ignores that as he flares his ki all the damn time. Hell Beerus flares his ki all the time too when he fights. Need we to forget Goku and Beerus' Jojo stands.

Or Whis' ROSAT that everyone conveniently forgets about even though Goku & Vegeta would've gotten much better practice done in it during the three-day preparation than the old, Earth one. So yeah, we can safely chalk up these ideas as something the anime staff needed for very small period of time then completely forgot about.

I guess they're afraid of either starving, or eating Beerus' food that stored in there, so that's why it ain't used. Least Popo has a food storage in his rosat.

[ekrolo2]

I guess they're afraid of either starving, or eating Beerus' food that stored in there, so that's why it ain't use. Least Popo has a food storage in his rosat.

Could've just brought some Senzu beans

[Theophrastus]

So this week's issue of Viz's version of Weekly Shonen Jump had this as the second page:


No real confirmation of whether they're going to just have Super chapters on their website or if it'll also run in the magazine, but it's pretty certain at this point that Viz has it.

[Xeztin]

So this week's issue of Viz's version of Weekly Shonen Jump had this as the second page:


No real confirmation of whether they're going to just have Super chapters on their website or if it'll also run in the magazine, but it's pretty certain at this point that Viz has it.

Wow! Boruto's in there too!

[dbzfan7]

I guess they're afraid of either starving, or eating Beerus' food that stored in there, so that's why it ain't use. Least Popo has a food storage in his rosat.

Could've just brought some Senzu beans

GT makes more sense, and it was terrible at making sense.

[ekrolo2]

I guess they're afraid of either starving, or eating Beerus' food that stored in there, so that's why it ain't use. Least Popo has a food storage in his rosat.

Could've just brought some Senzu beans

GT makes more sense, and it was terrible at making sense.

Eh, I'd say it makes more sense than most people give it credit for in certain areas and certainly more than Super in terms of powers.

[alakazam^]

Super only doesn't make sense if you don't want to think.

First of all, the anime and manga are different so you can't use the ki control and Vegeta drain as examples in the same sentence. The anime probably wanted to explain why their ki wasn't sensable by making those scenes where they were supposed to keep their ki from leaking out and using Whis' traning place. They don't need to talk about it again because we already got the hint. And them using Whis' training place makes him not use his staff so them going there again depends if he wants to or not.

Also, the manga doesn't talk about "mastery" of Super Saiyajin nor does the anime say they have perfect ki control when Blue. The reason for acting like Super Saiyajin was their base was to greatly diminish the toll it had on their bodies. That's not mastery, that's less stress on their bodies. Don't be dishonest.

The Kaiouken stuff was already explained in that episode: why he didn't used it since then, why he could do it in the tournament and why he probably won't use it again. Blue doesn't have "perfect" ki control, it's only better, which is logical since they presumably got that form by controlling their ki not to leak out. Visual representations are just that.

So, no. Super still makes more sense than GT ever did. If you want to joke around, at least don't twist stuff, use what has been given.

[ekrolo2]

Super only doesn't make sense if you don't want to think.

First of all, the anime and manga are different so you can't use the ki control and Vegeta drain as examples in the same sentence. The anime probably wanted to explain why their ki wasn't sensable by making those scenes where they were supposed to keep their ki from leaking out and using Whis' traning place. They don't need to talk about it again because we already got the hint. And them using Whis' training place makes him not use his staff so them going there again depends if he wants to or not.

Also, the manga doesn't talk about "mastery" of Super Saiyajin nor does the anime say they have perfect ki control when Blue. The reason for acting like Super Saiyajin was their base was to greatly diminish the toll it had on their bodies. That's not mastery, that's less stress on their bodies. Don't be dishonest.

The Kaiouken stuff was already explained in that episode: why he didn't used it since then, why he could do it in the tournament and why he probably won't use it again. Blue doesn't have "perfect" ki control, it's only better, which is logical since they presumably got that form by controlling their ki not to leak out. Visual representations are just that.

So, no. Super still makes more sense than GT ever did. If you want to joke around, at least don't twist stuff, use what has been given.

My complaints about Super's powers come almost exclusively from the anime, the manga is fine because it doesn't try to retcon past accomplishments to make Blue look better by comparison and makes far more sense than the anime.

Its the anime that bothers me, the ki leaking thing is presented as some new training form then not only is it never talked about again, but they actively go against its very principle: keep your damn aura on the inside. The very same arc where this concept gets introduced they break it in the first fight they have after the training. And before you tell me "they don't need it anymore", the anime is trying to say Roshi and the ROSAT, two useless forms of training are still viable but Whis' ROSAT and ki leaking exercises apparently aren't anymore. That's a problem.

Whis can also knock them out of the staff if he ever needs it so really, if it wasn't the anime exclusive bullshit it is, Goku and Vegeta would've asked him to use and Beerus would've backed them up as it would've increased his chance of winning the tournament.

These are two concepts that got introduced and dropped and don't exist at all, in any way shape or form in the manga, which tells me it's just there as handwave explanations for big strength gains that'll never, ever be mentioned or brought up again. Just like Kaio-ken being combined with Blooper won't leave Goku the equivalent of a cripple with his ki when he uses it again, or rather IF he uses it again because, as you said, I wouldn't be shocked if this was just a one time anime thing that never comes back up again.

All of these are issues with the anime, the manga makes leaps and bounds more sense than even the movies and works as a good continuation of the original 42 volumes in terms of powers. Its the anime that keeps screwing the pooch. I will stand by what I said concerning GT vs anime Super: GT makes more sense. The Rild comment alone greatly helps in determing how strong everyone is in that show, in the anime of Super? I have no clue how strong anyone is in relation to past arcs, to one another or even how their base forms even work anymore.

[dbzfan7]

Could've just brought some Senzu beans

GT makes more sense, and it was terrible at making sense.

Eh, I'd say it makes more sense than most people give it credit for in certain areas and certainly more than Super in terms of powers.

True. I think this panel sums it up.


I did have a big post on the argument going on, but I'm afraid I'd take it too far and derail the thread. I'll just say no one is being dishonest, and people are thinking.

[MCDaveG]

I think what doesn't make sense are in-universe explanations of battle powers, because everyone wants to have check on everything, but you can't measure it, it's abstract.
Try to measure up Saint Seiya or Hokuto no Ken, it's just shonen series for kids, where anytime someone shows up, it's challenge and there are variables from writers.
But no, everyone is like: ''Gurh, Gotenks power is stronger than this one, how did he lose, is he weak, that doesn't make sense, Super sucks'' but it's what the writers decided.
He's weaker than Beerus for example, because it is written. There doesn't exist any paralel world of Dragon Ball, that is real and you can go there and measure people's strength.

By the way, look at Goten and Trunks, they are weak little s**ts, so when they merge, duh, no wonder their multiplier sucks and they can't take on Vegeta who is training hard
and if someone noticed, was training in his basic form which makes him even stronger when transformed.

I do lack lot of logic in some of those power level discussions and I am happy that my other fav shows doesn't have those.

[TheMikado]

I think what doesn't make sense are in-universe explanations of battle powers, because everyone wants to have check on everything, but you can't measure it, it's abstract.
Try to measure up Saint Seiya or Hokuto no Ken, it's just shonen series for kids, where anytime someone shows up, it's challenge and there are variables from writers.
But no, everyone is like: ''Gurh, Gotenks power is stronger than this one, how did he lose, is he weak, that doesn't make sense, Super sucks'' but it's what the writers decided.
He's weaker than Beerus for example, because it is written. There doesn't exist any paralel world of Dragon Ball, that is real and you can go there and measure people's strength.

By the way, look at Goten and Trunks, they are weak little s**ts, so when they merge, duh, no wonder their multiplier sucks and they can't take on Vegeta who is training hard
and if someone noticed, was training in his basic form which makes him even stronger when transformed.

I do lack lot of logic in some of those power level discussions and I am happy that my other fav shows doesn't have those.

Strength measurement is an integral part of Shonen and something the Dragonball series could be considered the father of modern shonen with it's focus on explicit power fantasy.
So yes, when the core, major theme that essentially launched the modern shonen and MANY MANY imitators no longer retains the elements that launched it to success in the first place the fans will be mad...

[MCDaveG]

I think what doesn't make sense are in-universe explanations of battle powers, because everyone wants to have check on everything, but you can't measure it, it's abstract.
Try to measure up Saint Seiya or Hokuto no Ken, it's just shonen series for kids, where anytime someone shows up, it's challenge and there are variables from writers.
But no, everyone is like: ''Gurh, Gotenks power is stronger than this one, how did he lose, is he weak, that doesn't make sense, Super sucks'' but it's what the writers decided.
He's weaker than Beerus for example, because it is written. There doesn't exist any paralel world of Dragon Ball, that is real and you can go there and measure people's strength.

By the way, look at Goten and Trunks, they are weak little s**ts, so when they merge, duh, no wonder their multiplier sucks and they can't take on Vegeta who is training hard
and if someone noticed, was training in his basic form which makes him even stronger when transformed.

I do lack lot of logic in some of those power level discussions and I am happy that my other fav shows doesn't have those.

Strength measurement is an integral part of Shonen and something the Dragonball series could be considered the father of modern shonen with it's focus on explicit power fantasy.
So yes, when the core, major theme that essentially launched the modern shonen and MANY MANY imitators no longer retains the elements that launched it to success in the first place the fans will be mad...

Strength measurement was only briefly part of the Freeza arc. Otherwise, you can't justify things, like characters saying: ''Oh, he is maybe as strong as Buu!'' Which is not accurate.
I can say: ''Oh, maybe it was raining on this day the year before.'' So I don't know what power measurement are you talking about.

[Kingdom Heartless]

So Vegeta lost 90% of his strength by using Blue against Cabba for like five seconds? Weird. This chapter had some awesome parts, but I much prefer the anime fight. In the anime, you could understand Goku's reasoning for leaving the fight a lot more. Like against Cell, he had reached his limit and there was nothing else for him to do. Here, Hit barely even seemed to register as a threat. Goku controlled the fight almost the entire time.

The lack of Kaio-ken was quite disappointing.

I think the weakest aspect was the wrap-up. A few panels talking about the planet being a Dragon Ball and Super Shenlong being big just felt so slapdash. Sure, the anime drew out the summoning, but I found the long scenes there quite rewarding.

[Nejishiki]

I take it as Goku not finding the fight worth it if his opponent can't go all out and deciding to let Monaka, "finish him off", so that he may observe the new fighter as he plans for a future rematch in both versions.

[ekrolo2]

Doesn't Goku quit for the same reason in both versions? He wanted to see Hit's full move set, couldn't get it so he quit. Even in the anime where he's considerably more tired, he was willing to still go at it until he couldn't anymore. Plus he thinks Monaka's some uber badass in both versions too so this way he can see what Monaka can do.

[DBZ_Lee]

Fans in the UK, Viz has now made the 1st chapter available Free here (it wasn't yesterday).

http://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters/ ... ball-super

[Lord Beerus]

Fans in the UK, Viz has now made the 1st chapter available Free here (it wasn't yesterday).

http://www.viz.com/shonenjump/chapters/ ... ball-super

Hooray.

[ekrolo2]

I still can't read it, fucking Croatia.

[Lord Beerus]

I still can't read it, fucking Croatia.

You're from Croatia?