"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[perucho1990]

Another thing is that if Gohan will really be the one that defeats Toppo then he needs to get that form that goes beyond Ultimate.

[Michsi]

I'm not one to enjoy net drama, but if he does get a new form and it ends up with him having white hair, I will sit here a watch the fandom have the mother of all meltdowns.

[Freeza9000]

Another thing is that if Gohan will really be the one that defeats Toppo then he needs to get that form that goes beyond Ultimate.

You mean Blanco Saiyajin?

[perucho1990]

You mean Blanco Saiyajin?

Whatever he was foreshadowing in the recruitment arc while sparring vs Goku. It would make more sense than UI(which had more foreshadowing in the manga).

[Freeza9000]

You mean Blanco Saiyajin?

Whatever he was foreshadowing in the recruitment arc while sparring vs Goku. It would make more sense than UI(which had more foreshadowing in the manga).

Then you're most definitely talking about Gohan Blanco, there were subtle hints of it in the recruitment arc. I hope the form actually has Gohan tap into Angel ki.

[ToshioWrites]

If Gohan blanco happens, the fandom will explode. Clickbait youtubers will be vindicated. /a/ will crash and people will be split down the middle. Please happen

[Lionel]

Eh... I'm not so sure. In the Goku vs Beerus example, their fight can be summarised as a tried & true fisticuffs scrimmage. If the originality and out of the box thinking was there then where were the power independent techniques like the Taiyoken or Kienzan? Why doesn't Goku attack with a different style of combat that would bypass these outer defences of the opponent? With Jiren, I did notice how he "adapted" to Hit's Toki-Tobashi. But I would attribute that to Jiren's power level being so much higher that relativistic perception doesn't matter with skipped time segments because Hit's speed is insufficient (we saw this in the initial stages of Goku's usage of Kaioken against Hit). What was also noteworthy is the lack of Phoenix Eye Fist techniques used there. Dim Mak is supposed to work by attacking the pressure points in the most sensitive areas of the body but I think what we saw was just uncharacteristically normal punches from the assassin. Jiren's image of invincibility seems artificially propped up because of these shortsighted limitations of his opponents' instincts.

It's not like he ever really got a chance to do anything. Jiren easily countered Hit's assault and then went on the offense himself, keeping Hit on the defensive. I don't really see how his aura of invincibility is artificially propped up in the slightest.

He also suppressed himself to around Hit's level. Him being much stronger doesn't really mean much since nothing at all suggested power was the reason he adapted to and countered everything Hit tried to do.

With the segment of my post specifically referenced I was speaking more in terms of a wider-cast generality and their possible avenues for bringing Jiren down. In relation to Hit, the tactics he used were very straightforward and conventional. There wasn't much attempt at a non forward directional offensive strategy. His one attempt at a cloak & dagger two dimension strategy saw him landing his first and only blow on Jiren which he specifically executed so as to ensnare Jiren, not fatally kill. A blow to the heart like the one Goku suffered during his rematch with the assassin would have killed Jiren because internal organ damage isn't the same as being struck on the centre of musculature in your exterior body. Some other manoeuvres could have been attempted as well -- an omnidirectional soft strike barrage barrier like the one used by Goku when he mimicked Hasshuken, a triple or quadruple duplicate feint like the Zanoken used in the DB tournaments, ect.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Gohan Blanco would be the ultimate jump the shark moment.

[Freeza9000]

Gohan Blanco would be the ultimate jump the shark moment.

No, him fodderzing El Hermano and El Grande Padre would be the straw that ultimately breaks the camel's back.

[TheUltimateNinja]

Gohan Blanco would be the ultimate jump the shark moment.

No, him fodderzing El Hermano and El Grande Padre would be the straw that ultimately breaks the camel's back.

He doesn't stand a chance without Calvo.

[Freeza9000]

Gohan Blanco would be the ultimate jump the shark moment.

No, him fodderzing El Hermano and El Grande Padre would be the straw that ultimately breaks the camel's back.

He doesn't stand a chance without Calvo.

Isn't Calvo the form in which Gohan finally masters Angel Ki?

[TheUltimateNinja]

No, him fodderzing El Hermano and El Grande Padre would be the straw that ultimately breaks the camel's back.

He doesn't stand a chance without Calvo.

Isn't Calvo the form in which Gohan finally masters Angel Ki?

It's a precursor to his ultimate form, Blanco Calvo.

[TheSaiyanGod]

After leaving images of the episode 122, we saw that in one of them Vegeta is well wounded and with part of the broken armor.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This seems to be at the end of the fight, because in the preview, the moment Vegeta is preparing to use the Final Flash, we can already see him with some scratches and the same part of the broken armor.
Probably, this Final Flash will consume a lot of your energy and it will be worn out (though, as we have seen in the synopses, it will continue to struggle with Goku).

It is possible that the attack that left Vegeta so wounded is that Jiren's Ki sphere, the same one that appeared dragging him around the arena in the preview (maybe he will resist and try to use his last resort to defeat Jiren, in this case Final Flash)

I come to a bit different conclusion.

I believe Vegeta will attack him aggressively. Kick and punch Jiren in the gut. But after that jiren mauls him a bit and tries to end Vegeta with the Power Impact, which Vegeta gets out of with all he has. That will leave the scratches and damage the armor. Then Vegeta goes for the Final Flash which Jiren tanks.

[Jigurashi]

Eh... I'm not so sure. In the Goku vs Beerus example, their fight can be summarised as a tried & true fisticuffs scrimmage. If the originality and out of the box thinking was there then where were the power independent techniques like the Taiyoken or Kienzan? Why doesn't Goku attack with a different style of combat that would bypass these outer defences of the opponent? With Jiren, I did notice how he "adapted" to Hit's Toki-Tobashi. But I would attribute that to Jiren's power level being so much higher that relativistic perception doesn't matter with skipped time segments because Hit's speed is insufficient (we saw this in the initial stages of Goku's usage of Kaioken against Hit). What was also noteworthy is the lack of Phoenix Eye Fist techniques used there. Dim Mak is supposed to work by attacking the pressure points in the most sensitive areas of the body but I think what we saw was just uncharacteristically normal punches from the assassin. Jiren's image of invincibility seems artificially propped up because of these shortsighted limitations of his opponents' instincts.

It's not like he ever really got a chance to do anything. Jiren easily countered Hit's assault and then went on the offense himself, keeping Hit on the defensive. I don't really see how his aura of invincibility is artificially propped up in the slightest.

He also suppressed himself to around Hit's level. Him being much stronger doesn't really mean much since nothing at all suggested power was the reason he adapted to and countered everything Hit tried to do.

With the segment of my post specifically referenced I was speaking more in terms of a wider-cast generality and their possible avenues for bringing Jiren down. In relation to Hit, the tactics he used were very straightforward and conventional. There wasn't much attempt at a non forward directional offensive strategy. His one attempt at a cloak & dagger two dimension strategy saw him landing his first and only blow on Jiren which he specifically executed so as to ensnare Jiren, not fatally kill. A blow to the heart like the one Goku suffered during his rematch with the assassin would have killed Jiren because internal organ damage isn't the same as being struck on the centre of musculature in your exterior body. Some other manoeuvres could have been attempted as well -- an omnidirectional soft strike barrage barrier like the one used by Goku when he mimicked Hasshuken, a triple or quadruple duplicate feint like the Zanoken used in the DB tournaments, ect.

The blast Hit used on Goku to kill him Jiren straight up high-fived and no-sold. Like where you saying he didn't bother using that move against Jiren liked he did on Goku? Cause he used literally all of his moves we've seen him use throughout Super against Jiren.

[TheSaiyanGod]

After leaving images of the episode 122, we saw that in one of them Vegeta is well wounded and with part of the broken armor.

[spoiler][/spoiler]

This seems to be at the end of the fight, because in the preview, the moment Vegeta is preparing to use the Final Flash, we can already see him with some scratches and the same part of the broken armor.
Probably, this Final Flash will consume a lot of your energy and it will be worn out (though, as we have seen in the synopses, it will continue to struggle with Goku).

It is possible that the attack that left Vegeta so wounded is that Jiren's Ki sphere, the same one that appeared dragging him around the arena in the preview (maybe he will resist and try to use his last resort to defeat Jiren, in this case Final Flash)

I come to a bit different conclusion.

I believe Vegeta will attack him aggressively. Kick and punch Jiren in the gut. But after that jiren mauls him a bit and tries to end Vegeta with the Power Impact, which Vegeta gets out of with all he has. That will leave the scratches and damage the armor. Then Vegeta goes for the Final Flash which Jiren tanks.

Yeah, I think the reason he gets hurt and his broken armor is going to be Jiren's power impact. He will somehow get out of this attack, and then use the Final Flash.

In the preview, you can see that the moment Vegeta is being dragged by Power Impact, he is not scratched or injured, just at the moment of the Final Flash.
So, like I said, it's possible he uses Final Flash after being hit by the power impact. He gets injured, uses his most powerful attack, and goes back to the base form

[Lionel]

It's not like he ever really got a chance to do anything. Jiren easily countered Hit's assault and then went on the offense himself, keeping Hit on the defensive. I don't really see how his aura of invincibility is artificially propped up in the slightest.

He also suppressed himself to around Hit's level. Him being much stronger doesn't really mean much since nothing at all suggested power was the reason he adapted to and countered everything Hit tried to do.

With the segment of my post specifically referenced I was speaking more in terms of a wider-cast generality and their possible avenues for bringing Jiren down. In relation to Hit, the tactics he used were very straightforward and conventional. There wasn't much attempt at a non forward directional offensive strategy. His one attempt at a cloak & dagger two dimension strategy saw him landing his first and only blow on Jiren which he specifically executed so as to ensnare Jiren, not fatally kill. A blow to the heart like the one Goku suffered during his rematch with the assassin would have killed Jiren because internal organ damage isn't the same as being struck on the centre of musculature in your exterior body. Some other manoeuvres could have been attempted as well -- an omnidirectional soft strike barrage barrier like the one used by Goku when he mimicked Hasshuken, a triple or quadruple duplicate feint like the Zanoken used in the DB tournaments, ect.

The blast Hit used on Goku to kill him Jiren straight up high-fived and no-sold. Like where you saying he didn't bother using that move against Jiren liked he did on Goku? Cause he used literally all of his moves we've seen him use throughout Super against Jiren.

The intent of the technique was not to kill but to incapacitate. Hit himself specifically acknowledged the snare he was meaning to put Jiren in as the Shuntsen Ensatsu made contact. If it had been meant to strike the Pride Trooper's heart then he would likely have begun displaying symptoms of commotio cordis and died if an outside party didn't reach him in time to defibrillate his heart. That's what make internal martial arts so dangerous a concept. These characters can build up their muscles and limbs but their internal organs remain the same. Furthermore, as stated before, we saw none of the Phoenix Eye Fist manoeuvres used. Hit's rendition of the technique doesn't even fully encompass the principals of Dim Mak because he would be aiming for the eyes as well as other vulnerable non-muscled regions of the body.

[Jigurashi]

With the segment of my post specifically referenced I was speaking more in terms of a wider-cast generality and their possible avenues for bringing Jiren down. In relation to Hit, the tactics he used were very straightforward and conventional. There wasn't much attempt at a non forward directional offensive strategy. His one attempt at a cloak & dagger two dimension strategy saw him landing his first and only blow on Jiren which he specifically executed so as to ensnare Jiren, not fatally kill. A blow to the heart like the one Goku suffered during his rematch with the assassin would have killed Jiren because internal organ damage isn't the same as being struck on the centre of musculature in your exterior body. Some other manoeuvres could have been attempted as well -- an omnidirectional soft strike barrage barrier like the one used by Goku when he mimicked Hasshuken, a triple or quadruple duplicate feint like the Zanoken used in the DB tournaments, ect.

The blast Hit used on Goku to kill him Jiren straight up high-fived and no-sold. Like where you saying he didn't bother using that move against Jiren liked he did on Goku? Cause he used literally all of his moves we've seen him use throughout Super against Jiren.

The intent of the technique was not to kill but to incapacitate. Hit himself specifically acknowledged the snare he was meaning to put Jiren in as the Shuntsen Ensatsu made contact. If it had been meant to strike the Pride Trooper's heart then he would likely have begun displaying symptoms of commotio cordis and died if an outside party didn't reach him in time to defibrillate his heart. That's what make internal martial arts so dangerous a concept. These characters can build up their muscles and limbs but their internal organs remain the same. Furthermore, as stated before, we saw none of the Phoenix Eye Fist manoeuvres used. Hit's rendition of the technique doesn't even fully encompass the principals of Dim Mak because he would be aiming for the eyes as well as other vulnerable non-muscled regions of the body.

Well yeah. He wasn't allowed to kill so he fought every way he could without trying to kill. Regardless, the point I made is, him having the intent to kill would have meant nothing since Jiren already countered the shockwave move, Time Skip, Pocket Dimension, and ended up no selling CoT. I'm simply saying it really wouldn't have mattered what mindset Hit had, he clearly was just outclassed. Which I guess makes sense given who he was fighting.

[TheSaiyanGod]

Well, about Jiren's Power Impact on EP 122

We saw that most of the warriors who received this attack were either unconscious or were eliminated (Kale was knocked out, Hitto was eliminated).

[spoiler][/spoiler]

Vegeta will not be eliminated and will still fight Jiren on EP 123, so will he be the first to resist the attack and stand in the arena?
Goku received a similar attack on EP 109, and he needed the Kaioken to hold onto the edge of the arena

[Kenneth La Torre]

With the segment of my post specifically referenced I was speaking more in terms of a wider-cast generality and their possible avenues for bringing Jiren down. In relation to Hit, the tactics he used were very straightforward and conventional. There wasn't much attempt at a non forward directional offensive strategy. His one attempt at a cloak & dagger two dimension strategy saw him landing his first and only blow on Jiren which he specifically executed so as to ensnare Jiren, not fatally kill. A blow to the heart like the one Goku suffered during his rematch with the assassin would have killed Jiren because internal organ damage isn't the same as being struck on the centre of musculature in your exterior body. Some other manoeuvres could have been attempted as well -- an omnidirectional soft strike barrage barrier like the one used by Goku when he mimicked Hasshuken, a triple or quadruple duplicate feint like the Zanoken used in the DB tournaments, ect.

The blast Hit used on Goku to kill him Jiren straight up high-fived and no-sold. Like where you saying he didn't bother using that move against Jiren liked he did on Goku? Cause he used literally all of his moves we've seen him use throughout Super against Jiren.

The intent of the technique was not to kill but to incapacitate. Hit himself specifically acknowledged the snare he was meaning to put Jiren in as the Shuntsen Ensatsu made contact. If it had been meant to strike the Pride Trooper's heart then he would likely have begun displaying symptoms of commotio cordis and died if an outside party didn't reach him in time to defibrillate his heart. That's what make internal martial arts so dangerous a concept. These characters can build up their muscles and limbs but their internal organs remain the same. Furthermore, as stated before, we saw none of the Phoenix Eye Fist manoeuvres used. Hit's rendition of the technique doesn't even fully encompass the principals of Dim Mak because he would be aiming for the eyes as well as other vulnerable non-muscled regions of the body.

Oh please, even if hit tried to kill jiren, jiren would no sell that.

[Artorias]

I guess I'm in the minority of people that has no desire whatsoever to see a Goku and Freeza final 2 for U7. Just the mere thought of seeing them standing side by side firing a beam together is cringe to me. Please no.