Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[Ajay]

I know this isn't a big spoiler, but it's still a spoiler nonetheless. So just spoiler block next time you post something about an Future episode.

Spoiler tags for Dragon Ball-related info aren't required on this forum. Moreover, is it really a spoiler if it's released officially in a magazine?

[iAnimationLover_]

I noticed that background animation.
Maybe something highly-animated, since this is the start of the arc. They need something good... Well, at least what I thought so.

I Think it was mentioned that Goku was training with Whis

I know this isn't a big spoiler, but it's still a spoiler nonetheless. So just spoiler block next time you post something about an Future episode.

My bad

[Shreyas_Singh]

Are in- betweens supposed to merely be a replica of the key animators drawings or are they a different style of drawing by the in-betweener? Morover,how does an in betweener know perfectly where to draw in the middle of key drawings, does the key animator give rought instructions? Is it ever possible to spot an in -between during the animation ? I'm so sorry if these are stupid or annoying questions, I'm ...not the brightest.

[SaiyanGod117]

I know this isn't a big spoiler, but it's still a spoiler nonetheless. So just spoiler block next time you post something about an Future episode.

Spoiler tags for Dragon Ball-related info aren't required on this forum. Moreover, is it really a spoiler if it's released officially in a magazine?

Do you mean this specific subforum or this form in general? Because I've seen threads locked before because there was a spoiler in the title. Also, yes it can be still a spoiler if it's released in offical magazine, I have seen a lot of companies do so before. Additionally, it also depends on what degree people call a spoiler, I'm very sensitive when it comes to spoilers; so even the most minuscule detail about a future content is a spolier to me. That's why I avoid certain threads like the Offical announcement thread and The New Gods Discussion thread.

[Ajay]

Do you mean this specific subforum or this form in general? Because I've seen threads locked before because there was a spoiler in the title. Also, yes it can be still a spoiler if it's released in offical magazine, I have seen a lot of companies do so before. Additionally, it also depends on what degree people call a spoiler, I'm very sensitive when it comes to spoilers; so even the most minuscule detail about a future content is a spolier to me. That's why I avoid certain threads like the Offical announcement thread and The New Gods Discussion thread.

The forum as a whole. It's common courtesy not to put major spoilers in titles, and we may alter things on occasion if it's unnecessarily descriptive, but generally, it's all fair game. I don't know of any threads that have been locked for spoilers.

In a thread like this, where context is absolutely vital when discussing upcoming episodes, there's absolutely not going to be any spoiler rules enforced.

In the nicest way possible, Kanzenshuu exists to report on and discuss the latest pieces of info. If you're sensitive to spoilers, you may wish to look elsewhere.

To quote VegettoEX on the subject:

We are in the business of reporting news, not policing or babysitting personal sensitivities to it. I know that sounds harsh, but the only blanket answer you can give that's "fair" is "everything is game". The instant you start adding stipulations on top of that, you're getting too granular to be consistent. We're either all-in or we're not doing our job. We'll go all-in.

That applies to the forum, too.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Are in- betweens supposed to merely be a replica of the key animators drawings or are they a different style of drawing by the in-betweener? Morover,how does an in betweener know perfectly where to draw in the middle of key drawings, does the key animator give rought instructions? Is it ever possible to spot an in -between during the animation ? I'm so sorry if these are stupid or annoying questions, I'm ...not the brightest.

Key animators draw the most important frames of movement. The ones that are vital. In betweeners just fill in the gaps. They clean up the rough lines and draw the missing frames following the instructions given by the key animator on the timing sheets. The timing sheets tells them where to draw the in-between frames. They are given no freedom. The job sucks basically, but is necessary in completing the animation process.

You can spot poorly placed in-betweens that ruin a good scene. For example, this scene has good key frames, but cause of poorly placed in-betweens, the timing is screwed and it feels mechanical. With that said, good in-betweens will not matter if the key animation is poor.

Which is why key animation is always viewed by sakuga fans for animation appreciation as in-between animators do not get the freedom to show their talent and are just used for finishing purposes.

[Mazingerdestro]

Are in- betweens supposed to merely be a replica of the key animators drawings or are they a different style of drawing by the in-betweener? Morover,how does an in betweener know perfectly where to draw in the middle of key drawings, does the key animator give rought instructions? Is it ever possible to spot an in -between during the animation ? I'm so sorry if these are stupid or annoying questions, I'm ...not the brightest.

Key animators draw the most important frames of movement. The ones that are vital. In betweeners just fill in the gaps. They clean up the rough lines and draw the missing frames following the instructions given by the key animator on the timing sheets. The timing sheets tells them where to draw the in-between frames. They are given no freedom. The job sucks basically, but is necessary in completing the animation process.

You can spot poorly placed in-betweens that ruin a good scene. For example, this scene has good key frames, but cause of poorly placed in-betweens, the timing is screwed and it feels mechanical. With that said, good in-betweens will not matter if the key animation is poor.

Which is why key animation is always viewed by sakuga fans for animation appreciation as in-between animators do not get the freedom to show their talent and are just used for finishing purposes.

But the same can be applied when it comes to blaming someone for the scenes. If the scene is good thumps up to the key animator but if the scene is awful then the key animator will be blamed. A double edged sword.
There is also the fact that poorly placed/drawn in-betweens can be easily be hidden if the key animation is wonderful. In your example the scenes still look good. But bad key animation is basically a nightmare since it cannot be hidden.
In-between animation is a shitty job since you work like a madman, you get paid jack, and you can't prove/provide anything of importance (which implies that you don't progress in the industry) but then again you need to start from somewhere and I think that it is a way to see other people's jobs and learn.

[Doctor.]

Quick question, any idea who animated the quick scuffle in #50 where Black is punching Goku and the latter is blocking/dodging his hits? Was it Higashide?

[Ajay]

Quick question, any idea who animated the quick scuffle in #50 where Black is punching Goku and the latter is blocking/dodging his hits? Was it Higashide?

I'd initially assumed it was Higashide with Karasawa corrections since he was so new to us back then, but having seen Karasawa's output lately, I believe it's just pure Karasawa.

[Doctor.]

Quick question, any idea who animated the quick scuffle in #50 where Black is punching Goku and the latter is blocking/dodging his hits? Was it Higashide?

I'd initially assumed it was Higashide with Karasawa corrections since he was so new to us back then, but having seen Karasawa's output lately, I believe it's just pure Karasawa.

I see, appreciate it. Another one, what brought about the downfall in Kitano's work? Was it purely the schedule? Because he seemed to be able to draw consistently up until episode 19, more-or-less, where it all fell down. And though the F arc was a complete mess, the schedule only got better from there, so I'd imagine his work would have reached episode #1 and #7 levels of consistency again, instead of getting worse and worse.

[Ajay]

I see, appreciate it. Another one, what brought about the downfall in Kitano's work? Was it purely the schedule? Because he seemed to be able to draw consistently up until episode 19, more-or-less, where it all fell down. And though the F arc was a complete mess, the schedule only got better from there, so I'd imagine his work would have reached episode #1 and #7 levels of consistency again, instead of getting worse and worse.

I was rewatching episode 1 and 7 today since I'm going to be covering the early episodes along with the dub in video form, and I noticed that quite a lot of what I had previously assumed was him was actually just Takeo Ide.

You can spot the style we're used to in between those corrections:

[spoiler]


[/spoiler]

He definitely developed an uglier style though, even taking that into consideration. I don't think there's any real reason for it; Karasawa and Manabe both developed their styles quite quickly, too. While they got better, Kitano seemed to get into the habit of drawing giant angular eyebrows and weirdly small eyes.

I think what we saw as him getting worse was half that, but also just chief supervisors spending/having less time to fix up his work.

[BakaManiaHD]

Oh man, i love that "angular" shading style on Krillin's cheek from the last episode, it really reminds me of Z.
It should be like that all the time
[spoiler][/spoiler]
[spoiler][/spoiler]

[SaiyanGod117]

I don't know of any threads that have been locked for spoilers

Well I've seen them. Albeit, it was only one time, but that was enough for me to know you can't just blurt out spoilers openly like that, even the corresponding mod who Iocked the thread said so.

In a thread like this, where context is absolutely vital when discussing upcoming episodes, there's absolutely not going to be any spoiler rules enforced.

I see, I thought the only threads that spoilers were allowed was the offical announcement thread or threads that pertained to topics of such. That's definitely not the vibe I got from this thread, you don't need to talk about specific intracies of future episodes to talk about the animation. It's fine if someone wants post a little sneak peak image, but I would rather not know the details. To put it bluntly you don't need episode spoilers pertaining to plot to talk about animation.

In the nicest way possible, Kanzenshuu exists to report on and discuss the latest pieces of info. If you're sensitive to spoilers, you may wish to look elsewhere.

To quote VegettoEX on the subject:

We are in the business of reporting news, not policing or babysitting personal sensitivities to it. I know that sounds harsh, but the only blanket answer you can give that's "fair" is "everything is game". The instant you start adding stipulations on top of that, you're getting too granular to be consistent. We're either all-in or we're not doing our job. We'll go all-in.That applies to the forum, too.

Ok , I will try to tone down my sensitivity to spoilers.

[Ajay]

To put it bluntly you don't need episode spoilers pertaining to plot to talk about animation.

You absolutely do in many cases. When we get staff lists and we see something like "Animation Supervisor: Naoki Tate" next to a title like "Goku's New Form Unveiled!", then that becomes important to the discussion -- even more so if we see a big plot point attached to someone we're not fans of.

There was a lot of discussion about Yoshitaka Yashima being attached to the opening episode of the new arc, for example. It's important context when it comes to talking about staff rotations and whether we necessarily agree with them.

I don't know what threads you've seen locked for spoilers, but that's certainly not normal. Recent threads pertaining to things from the new arc preview were locked because they were better suited to overarching discussion threads, rather than their own dedicated ones. Nothing specifically to do with spoilers.

Anyway, that's that. If you'd like to discuss it further, by all means open up a thread about it in the Website & Community Discussion sub-forum. I'm sure one of the administrators can better address things.

[SaiyanGod117]

To put it bluntly you don't need episode spoilers pertaining to plot to talk about animation.

You absolutely do in many cases. When we get staff lists and we see something like "Animation Supervisor: Naoki Tate" next to a title like "Goku's New Form Unveiled!", then that becomes important to the discussion -- even more so if we see a big plot point attached to someone we're not fans of.

There was a lot of discussion about Yoshitaka Yashima being attached to the opening episode of the new arc, for example. It's important context when it comes to talking about staff rotations and whether we necessarily agree with them.

I don't know what threads you've seen locked for spoilers, but that's certainly not normal. Recent threads pertaining to things from the new arc preview were locked because they were better suited to overarching discussion threads, rather than their own dedicated ones. Nothing specifically to do with spoilers.

Anyway, that's that. If you'd like to discuss it further, by all means open up a thread about it in the Website & Community Discussion sub-forum. I'm sure one of the administrators can better address things.

When I mean plot, I mean plot, like the actual story or play-by-play.
Ex. Goku instant transmission to Beerus's and from there he meets the Omni King and God of Destructions 1-6. Anyways I get it, Spoilers are fair game.

[JulieYBM]

The preview image for #77 is now out:

Oh, hey, background animation. I wonder if it'll actually look good.

[ArchedThunder]

The preview image for #77 is now out:

Hmm, I wonder who corrected Yashima, unless Newtype was wrong.

[Psykomatik]

Back to this, it looks to me like there is background animation in this preview image. Thoughts?
And i believe it's chief animation supervisor, Takeo Ide, who corrected this shot. (big eyes, the nose)

[Sodhi]

It's great to see background animation. This image looks really solid. I'm really excited to see how much production was affected from 2 month filler.

[iAnimationLover_]

The preview image for #77 is now out:

Hmm, I wonder who corrected Yashima, unless Newtype was wrong.

The ears dont look like Ide to me