"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Michsi]

Unlike Goku, who is an actual catalyst for stories.
.

That's not what defines an MC however. Like how Zelda is not the main character of "Legend of Zelda". While I agree that Gohan has not been the main character in any saga, at least not from start to finish, there was a clear attempt at pushing him more and more into the spot light from the Saiyan Saga culminating in the Buu Saga were finalizing that attempt faltered.

[precita]

Gohan is the son of the main character. Anyone with common sense would know that alone would make him an important character. And as said he was pushed heavily all throughout DBZ.

It's really only that his portrayal in Super was so bad for the first 2 years that it felt like Gohan became irrelevant.

[YamiGoku]

I'm not a Gohan exclusive fan, but i think he needs at last 2 things:

1* an "epic moment on the tournament" I think he deserves 1 episode, like vegeta

2* after the tournament, don't make him go back to "I have difficulties to transform to Ssj1", I understand he is not like Goku and Vegeta, and he is not going to train until he can one shot whis, but just make him not lose all his strength in two days again... just let him be ultimate and train just enough to not lose his strength.

[MainJPW]

Did Jiren eat Vegeta?

[Noah]

This is Jiren after Christmas dinner, apparently.

[precita]

So a new ep airs this Saturday right?

[Dbzfan94]

Did Jiren eat Vegeta?

Jeez why is he so fat?

[kinisking]

Most Gohan fans(not all but stil) are really greedy,the kind you give an apple to and then they want all the apples you have,same here its not enough that Gohan does something,they will not be satisfied unless he takes it all.

This kind of greediness is what blinds them as well,in dbz outside of defeating Cell Gohan did not do much that sets him aside from the other supporting characters,in fact if we take away his Cell feat then you arrive at the conclusion that:
Gohan has been a stronger Krillin as far as the Freeza and Buu saga is concerned in terms of role and 5/6 of the Cell saga as well.

Gohan's fans cannot let go out of his best accomplishement and are still stuck on it,they cannot move on which is why they are not satisfied with what Gohan has gotten so far in this arc,when in reality 9/10 times he was mostly supporting/secondary role(that includes dbz as well).

I'm not even necessarily pining for Gohan to take it all, but what you're saying is just incorrect. Gohan was practically the main character of Z. It followed his journey of taking over where his father left off, up until Toriyama changed his damn mind and he got absorbed. (Which I think kinda killed the overall narrative honestly)

So many issues with this one statement.

1. There is no Z, there is only ball.

2. Not one single saga was about Gohan. The saiyan saga was about Goku's heritage. The freeza saga was about Goku's ultimate challenge. The Cell saga was about a world without Goku goes to hell. The Buu saga was about Goku's impact on others. The only time Gohan did anything was if someone he cared about was involved. Unlike Goku, who is an actual catalyst for stories.

3. Goku wasn't even the one who trained Gohan, that was Piccolo who kidnapped him. Gohan is not like his dad. He doesn't do anything unless something happens, Goku makes those things happen.

The Saiyan saga was about Gokus heritage, yes. But saying the Freeza saga was about Gokus ultimate challenge was a stretch. The Freeza saga started because they wanted to revive their friends and it was Gohan and Krillin that were the ones who wanted to do it more than anyone else. Goku had a connection to Freeza, but Vegeta more so. Calling the cell saga "this is an arc when Gokus gone" is a huge stretch. By the end of it , it was supposed to be an arc that showed Gohan could handle goku's problems and that the earth had a new protector. Even goku says that. The boo saga wasn't about Gokus connections to people. Goku felt unnatural in that arc and even he thought he had no right to be there.

[Torturephile]

Every time I see two standing close from one another, facing each other:
[spoiler]

[/spoiler]

[Whatever]

Eh, depends on what you consider supporting role. If you don't count Goku, he had more focus than anyone in Z even in the other arcs. He played a key role in the raditz (that injury made it harder for raditz to struggle) and Vegeta( solo'd vegeta while krillin and goku did their thing, was the reason why krillin and him came to help goku, oozaru form fell on vegeta) fight. He was pretty much the main character during namek before Goku revived and in the beginning of the boo arc. Plus all the buildup. Definitely an important character.

He was important but so was Krillin in the Freeza arc,thats not the point i am trying to make.
Lets remove Gohan's best feat(killing Cell)and then lets remove Vegeta's and Piccolo's best feat(whichever you think it is) and then lets compare them,would you think most Gohan's fans(you not included since you had reasonable expectations of him so far) would have such high expectations if not for him killing Cell?
Most likely no,if anything he would not be in the same league as them in terms of importance.

2. Not one single saga was about Gohan. The saiyan saga was about Goku's heritage. The freeza saga was about Goku's ultimate challenge. The Cell saga was about a world without Goku goes to hell. The Buu saga was about Goku's impact on others. The only time Gohan did anything was if someone he cared about was involved. Unlike Goku, who is an actual catalyst for stories.

You are really stretching it,the saiyan and freeza saga was not all about this(there was a subplot of Goku accepting his alien heritage but the same goes for Piccolo).
The Cell saga was a revenge story for Goku.
The Buu saga had nothing to do with Goku,in fact there was such a lost of direction that we propably cannot pinpoint accurately what it was about lol.

[GTx10]

I know I'm super late when it comes to replying to my own question, (Why Goku having the spotlight is a issue) but.... I've read the opinions and It doesn't reigster for me. Dragon Ball (Kid Goku years) was nothing but Son Goku so for me this Arc being nothing but Son Goku is "normal" for me. I will admit that Piccolo, Roshi, Tien, and Freeza can bring interesting fighting styles to the Tournament but everyone else is a "Goku clone."
Goku, Gohan, Kuririn, the Androids, and Vegeta all fight the same, in the sense that can't expand their arms like Piccolo or multiply like Tien can. Is the Final Flash really that different from the KaMeHaMe-Ha? No it isn't. I am a Son Goku fan, I admit that fully but I'm also fully aware of who's show this is.

It is the "Whis show" starring everyone else!

Plus this whole Arc has been leading toward "Son Goku Ultra Instinct Omen" VS Jiran." I doubt anyone else will get the spot light like them because of it. Although, I can see Gohan or another Universe 7 fighter being the last fighter in the ring because Goku and Jiran were ringed out. I can easily see a outcome like that.

[mahakaishin1991]

At first I thought that was Beerus drawn with a beer gut but it seems like it's that fish looking god of destruction. Wonder why he's sitting over there with U7, also seems like will be getting the start of Toppo vs 17 and Gohan in this episode. Was already hyped for the episode but I'm even more hyped now and can't wait for it to come out.

What do you mean “Fish-looking” God? That’s the U12 GoD who resembles a fish. This is Arack, Universe 5 GoD.

To be fair Arak has fish lips and catfish like whiskers so yeah

[SirTorra]

I'm assuming whoever drew Jiren took inspiration from weightlifters and/or bodybuilders. They tend to have a "gut" yet possess crazy strength. Or maybe they just fucked up and can't draw.

[TheUltimateNinja]

I'm assuming whoever drew Jiren took inspiration from weightlifters and/or bodybuilders. They tend to have a "gut" yet possess crazy strength. Or maybe they just fucked up and can't draw.

Yamamuro specifically said not to make Jiren too fat.

[Totamo]

Eh, depends on what you consider supporting role. If you don't count Goku, he had more focus than anyone in Z even in the other arcs. He played a key role in the raditz (that injury made it harder for raditz to struggle) and Vegeta( solo'd vegeta while krillin and goku did their thing, was the reason why krillin and him came to help goku, oozaru form fell on vegeta) fight. He was pretty much the main character during namek before Goku revived and in the beginning of the boo arc. Plus all the buildup. Definitely an important character.

He was important but so was Krillin in the Freeza arc,thats not the point i am trying to make.
Lets remove Gohan's best feat(killing Cell)and then lets remove Vegeta's and Piccolo's best feat(whichever you think it is) and then lets compare them,would you think most Gohan's fans(you not included since you had reasonable expectations of him so far) would have such high expectations if not for him killing Cell?
Most likely no,if anything he would not be in the same league as them in terms of importance.

2. Not one single saga was about Gohan. The saiyan saga was about Goku's heritage. The freeza saga was about Goku's ultimate challenge. The Cell saga was about a world without Goku goes to hell. The Buu saga was about Goku's impact on others. The only time Gohan did anything was if someone he cared about was involved. Unlike Goku, who is an actual catalyst for stories.

You are really stretching it,the saiyan and freeza saga was not all about this(there was a subplot of Goku accepting his alien heritage but the same goes for Piccolo).
The Cell saga was a revenge story for Goku.
The Buu saga had nothing to do with Goku,in fact there was such a lost of direction that we propably cannot pinpoint accurately what it was about lol.

The saiyan saga happened because Goku was a saiyan and his brother came to get him. If it wasn't about his heritage. That saga wouldn't happen. No fight mattered until Goku got there because they were doing nothing but dying and the ones that lived only lived because the saiyans decided to wait for Goku. The saiyan saga is about Goku's heritage, the saiyans.


The Freeza saga is all about Goku's ultimate challenge. The first thing that came to his mind when he heard of Freeza was not worry for his son but excitement. The whole saga, you spend with him training, pushing himself pass his limit and fighting the strongest fighters in the universe, leading up to Freeza and of course super saiyan. If it wasn't for any challenge, Goku wouldn't even go to Namek because there be no reason for him to. Gohan and Krillin just spend that entire first half running and hiding and waiting for Goku.

The Cell saga was not a revenge story because if Goku had died and the androids were defeated by the z fighters, Trunks never would have came to the past but because Goku wasn't there no one was there to stop them because he was the one with the plan, which is shown our tieline. Trunks' future is a world without Goku

The buu saga happened because Buu was revived and that happened because of Vegeta's obsession to fight Goku and giving himself to Babidi. Goku could have beaten Buu but he decided to leave it to the next gen so they wouldn't rely on him. Vegeta's speech was all about that. Piccolo said it to.



Saiyan saga- Goku's herritage
Freeza saga- Goku's ultimate challenge
Cell saga- World without Goku
Buu saga- Goku's impact on others.


Unless you can use important moments to counter this, you can't really argue.

[Totamo]

I'm not even necessarily pining for Gohan to take it all, but what you're saying is just incorrect. Gohan was practically the main character of Z. It followed his journey of taking over where his father left off, up until Toriyama changed his damn mind and he got absorbed. (Which I think kinda killed the overall narrative honestly)

So many issues with this one statement.

1. There is no Z, there is only ball.

2. Not one single saga was about Gohan. The saiyan saga was about Goku's heritage. The freeza saga was about Goku's ultimate challenge. The Cell saga was about a world without Goku goes to hell. The Buu saga was about Goku's impact on others. The only time Gohan did anything was if someone he cared about was involved. Unlike Goku, who is an actual catalyst for stories.

3. Goku wasn't even the one who trained Gohan, that was Piccolo who kidnapped him. Gohan is not like his dad. He doesn't do anything unless something happens, Goku makes those things happen.

The Saiyan saga was about Gokus heritage, yes. But saying the Freeza saga was about Gokus ultimate challenge was a stretch. The Freeza saga started because they wanted to revive their friends and it was Gohan and Krillin that were the ones who wanted to do it more than anyone else. Goku had a connection to Freeza, but Vegeta more so. Calling the cell saga "this is an arc when Gokus gone" is a huge stretch. By the end of it , it was supposed to be an arc that showed Gohan could handle goku's problems and that the earth had a new protector. Even goku says that. The boo saga wasn't about Gokus connections to people. Goku felt unnatural in that arc and even he thought he had no right to be there.

Except.....Gohan couldn't. He got too arrogant and it caused Cell to self destruct if it wasn't for Goku, Earth would have been destroyed. Then when Cell comes back, Gohan wanted to give up and it was Goku who coached him to do it. Even when Gohan had all the power, he screwed up severely 2 times So tell me, where did Gohan prove he can do what his dad can do without him.

[HeroR]

Gohan is the son of the main character. Anyone with common sense would know that alone would make him an important character. And as said he was pushed heavily all throughout DBZ.

It's really only that his portrayal in Super was so bad for the first 2 years that it felt like Gohan became irrelevant.

You mean how Raditz was important since he's the MC's big brother?

Gohan is for the most part irrelevant.

[CJStriker_CBR]

I really hate this 'war' in this fandom.

Goku fans v Vegeta fans v Gohan fans v Piccolo fans.

For fucks sake, am I the only one who's a fan of all of them?

Welcome to fandom. You would like or want something, then you're greedy. Take what you get. And then there's the crowd who would completely throw away character arcs because they don't like them. Damn the story and dropping the ball on a character arc, because I don't like them so they should go away to appease me. Fuck anyone else who may want to see them, only I matter. What there's people who want to see this? Nah can't be happy for them, it's all about me baby.

I do not like Ribrianne at all, but if there's a character arc going for her, then who am I to say it should just vanish like Lunch did. As long as there is a story being told, it should have a beginning, middle, and end. It shouldn't just randomly be dropped and have gears shifted away from said story to backpedal.

I would enjoy any story/character driven mini-arc that expanded upon Brianne's character and lore, mainly an origin story would be the best. It would be about where Brianne came from, how she developed her ideals and how she become the Goddess of her Universe. I think their is great potential in an original story like this if handled right, same as any origin to Jiren that might happen as well.

[Whatever]

The saiyan saga happened because Goku was a saiyan and his brother came to get him. If it wasn't about his heritage. That saga wouldn't happen. No fight mattered until Goku got there because they were doing nothing but dying and the ones that lived only lived because the saiyans decided to wait for Goku. The saiyan saga is about Goku's heritage, the saiyans.

Vegeta the big bad of the saiyan saga,his motivation for coming to earth had nothing to do with Goku,Vegeta and Nappa came for the dragonballs.

The Freeza saga is all about Goku's ultimate challenge. The first thing that came to his mind when he heard of Freeza was not worry for his son but excitement. The whole saga, you spend with him training, pushing himself pass his limit and fighting the strongest fighters in the universe, leading up to Freeza and of course super saiyan. If it wasn't for any challenge, Goku wouldn't even go to Namek because there be no reason for him to. Gohan and Krillin just spend that entire first half running and hiding and waiting for Goku.

The whole reason Goku even met with Freeza was because Gohan and Krillin went to Namek to get the dragonballs,the focus was mostly the dragonball hunt(which is why we had 3 sides hunting for them)with the climax being Goku vs Freeza,yeah outside of the climax Goku had mostly nothing to with Freeza arc.
If we use your logic then the Cell arc was about Gohan just because the climax was Gohan vs Cell,which as you know is not true.
Gohan,Krillin,Vegeta and Freeza would all have went to Namek regardless of Goku.

The Cell saga was not a revenge story because if Goku had died and the androids were defeated by the z fighters, Trunks never would have came to the past but because Goku wasn't there no one was there to stop them because he was the one with the plan, which is shown our tieline. Trunks' future is a world without Goku

Yes it was a revenge story,DrGero's creations whatever it was the Androids or Cell were created to kill Goku.
The Cell saga irronically is when Goku has the most connections to it despite having the least screentime and doing mostly nothing.

The buu saga happened because Buu was revived and that happened because of Vegeta's obsession to fight Goku and giving himself to Babidi. Goku could have beaten Buu but he decided to leave it to the next gen so they wouldn't rely on him. Vegeta's speech was all about that. Piccolo said it to.

Buu has nothing to do with Goku.Vegeta almost always screw things up for the good guys,by your logic the Cell and Buu sagas are about him since he is the reason Cell reached his perfect form or Buu being there.And how Goku making a bad decision makes the story about him again?

Buu was mostly a(failled)attempt at the new generation taking over before Toriyama backtracked on it.

[Chuquita]

I'm torn on the Kitaro thing.

On one hand, I'm hungry for the next arc of Super and the production is finally in a good place. I love having new db content each week.

On the other hand, it'd free up some of my weekend. Between watching the episode, posting my thoughts, uploading screenshots, and drawing/editing/uploading mini-comics I log around 3 hours each weekend on Super.

On the other other hand, Super's been a constant in my life over the past two years that outside of Super have been pretty tumultuous. Saying goodbye would feel strange, even with a December movie waiting in that wings.

I'll wait until we know more for sure then. Maybe Super isn't going away at all.