The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Mjb1985]

Yea I really dislike that Goten = Gohan stuff. I definitely don't agree with that. Goten wasn't even able to hit Gohan when they got a bit more intense.

[dbzfan7]

Yea I really dislike that Goten = Gohan stuff. I definitely don't agree with that. Goten wasn't even able to hit Gohan when they got a bit more intense.

Yeah I don't see it. Like you said.

[Mjb1985]

I'm ok with the boys > Piccolo, but there isn't all that much room in there as well with that thinking for my impression of how fusion power compares.

I think Ssj3 Gogeta is at least as strong as Buuhan. I think fusion is a basic multiplier. So there's a bit of room to play with but not much. Let me show you what I mean.

Gogeta 25 ( maybe 30 )
Buuhan 25
Buutenks 20
Gohan 15
Gotenks 10
Super Buu 10


So I need the Post Rosat boys at a small range from 33% to 40% of Goku and Vegeta.

Which isn't terribly hard to do but there isn't a lot of room here, it's pretty set. And this is the Post Rosat version.

So..

Goku / Majin Vegeta 100
Vegeta 75
Gohan 60
Boys Post Rosat 33-40
Boys Pre Rosat 25-30
Piccolo 20

Which isn't too bad honestly but if you have strict impressions of fusion like I do, it gets pretty tight. It also forces me to make Piccolo a little weaker than I'd like as well.

I generally like Piccolo at around 50% of Goku during the CG. With some minor improvement for the Buu Saga.

I generally see Teen Gohan around Goku from the CG.

So already with this list I have Buu Saga Piccolo only at 33% of Teen Gohan Goku CG level. That's a bit lower than I'd like but it's doable.

[RandomGuy96]

I just give the boys power levels that work with my simple A x 2 x 10 multiplier. Doesn't really matter to me as long as they're above 18 and below Piccolo.

[Kaboom]

I stopped caring about the math of Fusion AGES ago. I put Goten and Trunks and Gotenks where they seem to fit best, regardless of their relationship to each other, and just comfortably assume that any Goku/Vegeta Fusion is in a league of its own above practically everyone else.

[Mjb1985]

I don't think it has to be so bad though Kaboom. At least for Metamoran.

If you consider Base Gotenks Post > Ssj Gotenks Pre a throwaway line, like I've been experimenting with, it's not so bad.


Super Buu ( FP ) , Ssj3 Gotenks > Super Buu ( Initial ) >= Ssj Gotenks Post > Ssj Gotenks Pre > Fat Buu


Gotenks only improves from a level of not having a chance against a fighter to nearly being on par. Screw Base > Ssj it's too many headaches.

And then have Gogeta 2-3x stronger than Gotenks. Metamoran doesn't have any issues then.

Potara? Well that's a whole nother issue. But Metamoran isn't bad imo.

[RandomGuy96]

Future Trunks (prior to Gohan's death) vs third form Freeza.

Future Gohan vs Mecha Freeza (100%) and King Cold.

[Saiga]

I've never guessed any battle powers for the Trunks chapter, indeed I only read it for the first time last week. But, based on a total guess I think having SS Trunks stronger than 3rd form Freeza and weaker than Gohan would be too tight to work. I maybe be underrating Future Gohan, though. So I tentatively say that Gohan would win.

As for Gohan vs Freeza & Cold, based on my previous tentative logic he would lose. Might not even beat one of them. Then again, he seems to think he'll beat both Androids if they were around the level 17 was when they previously fought... so I don't know.

[Mjb1985]

Ssj Kid Trunks squeaks by 3rd Form Freeza. He was losing handidly to Base Saiyan Gohan who is somewhere in between Base Goku ( Namek ) and Base Goku ( Yardrat ).

Ssj Future Gohan obliterates Cold and Mecha Freeza in seconds. Trunks wasn't much stronger than Gohan was and Trunks thought he could destroy both in seconds at their full power. Should go the same for Gohan.

[RandomGuy96]

Trunks has no idea how strong Freeza is and is one of the worst fighters when it comes to underestimating his enemies.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I don't think Kid Trunks is weaker than 3rd form Freeza, but I don't think he's way stronger, either. Trunks would probably win after a close fight. I think Mecha Freeza is barely stronger than Super Saiyan Goku on namek, so yeah, Gohan would waste both Mecha Freeza and Cold.

[Mjb1985]

I'm under the impression Gohan told Trunks how strong Freeza was.

[RandomGuy96]

I don't think Kid Trunks is weaker than 3rd form Freeza, but I don't think he's way stronger, either. Trunks would probably win after a close fight. I think Mecha Freeza is barely stronger than Super Saiyan Goku on namek, so yeah, Gohan would waste both Mecha Freeza and Cold.

Really? I think Gohan is decent bit weaker thab Namek Goku.

i'm under the impression Gohan told Trunks how strong Freeza was.

Ignoring that there's no evidence for that, how would he know? How would he even describe it? Why would he tell Trunks? How would he remember?

[Mjb1985]

Well we look at it differently. I have it like this.

Yardrat Goku > Trunks >= Gohan > Mecha Freeza >= Goku Namek >= Freeza


I guess it would go something like , hey I'm not as strong as Dad was but at least I can easily handle Freeza. These Androids are something else though.

[Draken]

I don't think Kid Trunks is weaker than 3rd form Freeza, but I don't think he's way stronger, either. Trunks would probably win after a close fight. I think Mecha Freeza is barely stronger than Super Saiyan Goku on namek, so yeah, Gohan would waste both Mecha Freeza and Cold.

Really? I think Gohan is decent bit weaker thab Namek Goku.

i'm under the impression Gohan told Trunks how strong Freeza was.

Ignoring that there's no evidence for that, how would he know? How would he even describe it? Why would he tell Trunks? How would he remember?

Well Gohan did see 100% Freeza when he went to go stall him before Freeza powered down...

[Godo]

No!

Yardrat Goku > King Cold > Goku Namek >= Gohan > King Cold (supressed) => Mecha Freeza >= Trunks >= Freeza

[Draken]

No!

Yardrat Goku > King Cold > Goku Namek >= Gohan > King Cold (supressed) => Mecha Freeza >= Trunks >= Freeza

No! why? How do you get King Cold being so strong...

[RandomGuy96]

I find that it makes far more sense if:

Yardrat Goku > Trunks = Namek Goku > Mecha Freeza > Future Gohan >= Freeza.

Because Gohan compared Trunks to Namek Goku, and you'd think he'd mention if Trunks was so much stronger after saying ue had the same ki. Trunks is simply arrogant and not knowledgable and would have had a real hard time if Freeza powered up. Or he was goading Freeza into powering up so he could get an easy kill while Freeza's guard is down.

Well Gohan did see 100% Freeza when he went to go stall him before Freeza powered down...

Wasn't that filler?

Yardrat Goku > King Cold > Goku Namek >= Gohan > King Cold (supressed) => Mecha Freeza >= Trunks >= Freeza

King Cold < normal Freeza is stated repeatedly.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

The comparison isn't referring to Chi level, tho. He's only the 2nd Super Saiyan ever sensed by Gohan, so I'm not sure he needs to be that precise. Gohan stalling Freeza was indeed filler.

Why do you think Future Gohan is weaker than namek Goku?

[RandomGuy96]

He doesn't need to be perfect, but given that he said that Trunks had the same ki as Namek Goku without adding something like "except way stronger", which Trunks would need to be for Gohan to be stronger than Mecha Freeza, Trunks and Namek Goku should be very close if not identical.

Because he did nothing to prove that he was on that level, and was stated to be inferior to Trunks who was equal to or at the very best slightly stronger than Namek Goku.