The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Kaboom]

New one: had Goku been healthy, could he and Vegeta have beaten Android 18 if they teamed up?

I think I'm going to vote "yes." But only for 18, and barely. If they want to have a chance against 17, they'd need to toss in Trunks or Piccolo as extra backup.

[MDSTSSJ]

New one: had Goku been healthy, could he and Vegeta have beaten Android 18 if they teamed up?

Yes. Kakarotto is a bit stronger than Vegeta and those two together have sufficient skills to beat N 18 without much difficulty.

[Draken]

New one: had Goku been healthy, could he and Vegeta have beaten Android 18 if they teamed up?

Yes. Kakarotto is a bit stronger than Vegeta and those two together have sufficient skills to beat N 18 without much difficulty.

Debatable. It's implied Vegeta when he first transforms is stronger than a healthy Goku.

[Mjb1985]

Yea Piccolo outright states Vegeta is stronger.

[RandomGuy96]

Just a teeny bit though. They're basically equal.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I wouldn't say by much. Piccolo isn't even sure at first if Vegeta is stronger only after thinking about it does he realize. I'm thinking a Goten /Trunks gap here could be suitable.

[dbzfan7]

I think 18 would still win. But get a good fight.

[Mjb1985]

I get the feeling 17 thought 18 was going all out when he said that.

[RandomGuy96]

He should know 18's power, though. He said that Trunks + Piccolo + Vegeta would be too much for 18 to handle and it was never contradicted. 18 had a bit of trouble with Vegeta when his stamina was still high, I imagine that Goku and Vegeta together would be able to beat her. It'd be kinda like Piccolo and Goku vs Garlic Jr.

[MDSTSSJ]

New one: had Goku been healthy, could he and Vegeta have beaten Android 18 if they teamed up?

Yes. Kakarotto is a bit stronger than Vegeta and those two together have sufficient skills to beat N 18 without much difficulty.

Debatable. It's implied Vegeta when he first transforms is stronger than a healthy Goku.

Mmm I don´t remember where is implied

Kakarotto transformed into SSJ before Vegeta. When Goku arrives on Earth ( post Yadorat ), have more power and Vegeta is not even a SSJ yet. Pre Androids 19 and 20 Piccolo is stronger than Vegeta. Piccolo ( very good sparring ) trained with Kakarotto on Earth. Vegeta to achieve SSJ trained in the gravity chamber at 150 if I´m not mistaken.

That´s why I see Goku a bit stronger than Vegeta!

[Mjb1985]

Piccolo states Vegeta > Goku so I just go with that.

17 sees Vegeta giving 18 a decent fight and figures Vegeta's friends helping him out would turn the tide. Which is true, Vegeta is close enough to 18. Later it's implied that Vegeta was never that close.

[MDSTSSJ]

He should know 18's power, though. He said that Trunks + Piccolo + Vegeta would be too much for 18 to handle and it was never contradicted. 18 had a bit of trouble with Vegeta when his stamina was still high, I imagine that Goku and Vegeta together would be able to beat her. It'd be kinda like Piccolo and Goku vs Garlic Jr.

I agree with this. I still think that Kakarotto and Vegeta together, is too much for 18.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Captain Ginyu vs Oozaru King Vegeta

Captain Ginyu vs Oozaru King Vegeta and Oozaru Bardock

Ginyu wins the first one and Oozarus win the second one assuming Ginyu doesn't remove their tails.

[RandomGuy96]

Mmm I don´t remember where is implied

Kakarotto transformed into SSJ before Vegeta. When Goku arrives on Earth ( post Yadorat ), have more power and Vegeta is not even a SSJ yet. Pre Androids 19 and 20 Piccolo is stronger than Vegeta. Piccolo ( very good sparring ) trained with Kakarotto on Earth. Vegeta to achieve SSJ trained in the gravity chamber at 150 if I´m not mistaken.

That´s why I see Goku a bit stronger than Vegeta!

It's not implied. Goku, Vegeta, and Piccolo all flat out say that Vegeta is a tiny bit stronger than Goku.

17 sees Vegeta giving 18 a decent fight and figures Vegeta's friends helping him out would turn the tide. Which is true, Vegeta is close enough to 18. Later it's implied that Vegeta was never that close.

Where? I always assumed he was in fact on par with 18, but 18's advantages with unlimited energy weren't limited to stamina. Don't androids also not feel pain? And aren't they more durable than other fighters of their caliber? 17 didn't seem that damaged after fighting Piccolo.

I see Vegeta as about 85% of 18 before his stamina dropped. Maybe higher, maybe a little lower.

Captain Ginyu vs Oozaru King Vegeta

Captain Ginyu vs Oozaru King Vegeta and Oozaru Bardock

Ginyu wins the first one and Oozarus win the second one assuming Ginyu doesn't remove their tails.

Ginyu is allowed to remove their tails. That's part of the versus; would he be able to do it? Would he instantly think of it?

[Mjb1985]

18 said Vegeta couldn't do anything to him and said he was pathetic or something.

[RandomGuy96]

Where? I recall her saying that Vegeta was nothing special (contradicting everyone else including 17 saying he was very strong), but nothing like that. Plus if Vegeta was really so much weaker than 18, why would the author put so much emphasis on her infinite stamina, having an experienced character comment on it after an inexperienced one expresses awe that Vegeta's holding his own? Why would the author even have him holding his own in the first place right after his enemy explicitly said she wasn't toying with him anymore? Just seems weird from a Doylist perspective.

[dbzfan7]

Ginyu wins fight 1.

But if he can't figure out the tail weakness loses fight 2.

[RandomGuy96]

That's the question though. Would he know to utilize the tail weakness? I presume that as an elite soldier in Freeza's empire he would know a thing or two about one of the species in Freeza's employ.

[Mjb1985]

Yea it's a weird situation. At first I kind of got the feeling that 18 was only a bit stronger than Vegeta and that she used her full power when she said she would, but later in the manga it's like she was just joking around. Then I read the fight a couple more times and I'm under the impression she definitely wasn't trying very hard. Probably holding back to make the fight interesting, a situation similar to Cell and Goku more or less.

Hey we are having an awesome fight an we are equals. Right after the fight Muhahaha that was only 1% of my power.

Add in Vegeta's oh face after sensing Imperfect Cell and Piccolo's power and how on Piccolo rivals the androids it makes me feel that 18 really wasn't trying much. Which is possible to see in their fight as well.

18 talks trash about Vegeta to 16 while Semi is looking for them once Post Rosat Vegeta arrives. Ah she didn't say he was pathetic, she said Vegeta was helpless IIRC.

It's a funny situation though.

[Rocketman]

I think the important thing to take is the showcasing of the Androids' unlimited stamina. Vegeta wasn't helpless against her because he was too weak at his max, he was helpless because just existing makes his power go down.