The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Rocketman]

What can Piccolo and the humans effectively do?

Enough that 17 believes they're a threat, and that's with Gero's outdated data.

[Draken]

What can Piccolo and the humans effectively do?

Enough that 17 believes they're a threat, and that's with Gero's outdated data.

Trunks was far superior to Piccolo and all the humans combined. He got one shot with ease and left with a broken sword. I don't see them doing shit.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Outdated or not, what's stopping #18 from punching through any of them? The only ones worth mentioning are Trunks and Piccolo--and they're weaklings compared to her. The humans wouldn't even give #19 a good fight.

[goku the krump dancer]

17 knows the following:

18's strength
A rough estimate of Vegeta's strength
A 'bare minimum' estimate of how strong Piccolo and the humans are from Gero's calculations

Vegeta knows the following:

His own strength (overinflated)
A rough estimate of 18's strength
How strong Piccolo and the humans are (underinflated)

Neither side can sense the other.

I favor 17's assessment for two reasons. One, he knows exactly how strong 18 is. Two, Vegeta has firmly climbed up his own ass over becoming the superest Super Saiyan evers.

Exactly and after everyone's healed from the battle Vegeta flies off to go cry on a mountain, Trunks goes to follow and Piccolo says "No Vegeta regained his long lost arrogance after becoming a Super Saiyan and got the shit kicked out of him by a female android, he won't be in the best mood" That statement proves that Vegeta was just being Vegeta when he called everyone else a weakling.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Vegeta being Vegeta doesn't make the statement any less accurate.

[Mjb1985]

What does it matter?

Vegeta is close enough to 18 that with the help of Trunks, Piccolo , Gohan , Tenshinhan and Kuririn they could take her. Sounds about right.

Imperfect Cell was able to give Weighted Kamiccolo a fight and with the help of Trunks and Tenshinhan Cell opted to get out of there.

We already saw Jeice as complete fodder to Goku yet serve as a good distraction when Ginyu and Goku fought. Dodoria and Zarbon have no chance to beat Vegeta but together they can take him.

There is power in numbers if at least one person is somewhat close to the other.

[Draken]

What does it matter?

Vegeta is close enough to 18 that with the help of Trunks, Piccolo , Gohan , Tenshinhan and Kuririn they could take her. Sounds about right.

Imperfect Cell was able to give Weighted Kamiccolo a fight and with the help of Trunks and Tenshinhan Cell opted to get out of there.

We already saw Jeice as complete fodder to Goku yet serve as a good distraction when Ginyu and Goku fought. Dodoria and Zarbon have no chance to beat Vegeta but together they can take him.

There is power in numbers if at least one person is somewhat close to the other.

Gohan SSJ2 + Piccolo + Krillin + Yamcha + Tien vs Super Perfect Cell.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Vegeta isn't close to #18, and everyone else is weaker in comparison; they'd do nothing but soak up damage. If Vegeta and Trunks both lack the power to damage her, throwing in a few more weaklings does not change the situation one bit.

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta isn't close to #18

Yes, he is. This was outright statd and shown to be the case. Yet you assume that Toriyama had everyone be wrong, including the person who knows 18's power, and made the unique combat attributes of the androids red herrings purely to confuse readers.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Stated where?

I see #16 stating Piccolo rivals both Androids (meaning they're in the same league, which can't be said about Vegeta), and the same Piccolo is much stronger than Super Saiyan Vegeta. What #17 said means nothing when the following pages show her dominance on Vegeta, who couldn't even damage her--along with the other Super Saiyan who had his sword shattered.

So....?

[hleV]

I'll just post some related things from the Strength Checker, so it would be clear what are people referring to.

Chapter: 352 (DBZ 158), P6.3-4
Context: after Vegeta fights No.18 for awhile
No.17: “I’m surprised…His strength greatly differs from what Doctor Gero’s data said, doesn’t it? Vegeta, huh?...He’s an incredible guy.”

Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P10.2-4, P11.1
Context: after continuing to fight No.18
Vegeta: “This is really starting to annoy me. You act as if nothing’s happened…”
No.18: “I’m surprised. To think that a flesh-and-blood human could be so good, even if you are an alien. Is this man called ‘Son Goku’ even stronger?”
Vegeta: “Don’t kid yourself. He may have temporarily slipped by me, but now things have returned to normal and I should be on top again.”
No.18: “What? So you’re nothing special. Either of you.”

Chapter: 353 (DBZ 159), P12.3-6
Trunks: “Am-amazing! I hadn’t realized that father was this strong…! To think that he’s able to fight on par with that outrageous android…!”
Piccolo: “Vegeta’s going to be killed…[ ] Watch…Bit by bit, the android is starting to push him back. It’s because his enemy’s power never falls at all, while Vegeta’s stamina falls the more he moves.”

[Mjb1985]

The humans were at the same level for the Androids as they were for Cell. So that makes sense they can't help.

[Undertaker]

M10 LSSJ Broly vs SPC who wins?

[RandomGuy96]

They're equals in power in my book. Maybe Broly is slightly stronger by a barley noticeable amount like 5%. But Cell's techniques and powers should let him kick the shit out of Broly.

You know what would end Broly? One Kienzan or Special Beam Cannon. And Broly would probably laugh and let Cell do it, thinking he can tank it.

[Kaboom]

I'm on the fence about Movie 10 Broly lately. I think the big lunkhead would probably have an edge in power, but Cell's much more smart and skilled, and might be able to figure out a way to beat him (like a Kienzan or Makankosappo, indeed). Broly would take it 2 out of 3 times.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

I think Broly's stronger than Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan, but I see Cell closer to Kid Gohan than Broly.

With that, Cell should win. I think he's better overall, anyway.

[Mjb1985]

I'm under the impression Broly is stronger than all Ssj2's. I generally like to give him a decent advantage over them.

[Undertaker]

I'm under the impression Broly is stronger than all Ssj2's. I generally like to give him a decent advantage over them.

Why if I can ask?

[RandomGuy96]

Why? He had trouble with a guy that pre-Majin Vegeta described as "pathetic" and was killed in a similar way to Cell, except with less of a struggle and much weaker opponents.

I don't even think that Broly is that far off from, say, Dabura. Maybe a 85 vs 100 gap between those two. And I think that Dabura would wreck Broly after losing in straight combat after a decent fight. Magic ftw.

[Mjb1985]

1) Ssj Broly > Ssj Goku stated in the Daizenshuu.
2) Broly is supposed to be the strongest Saiyan.
3) Broly easily handles Ssj2 Gohan
4) I think Goku and Gohan both turned Ssj2 at the end of the Family KHH
5) Just fits in with the whole mega villain thing