"Dragon Ball Super" Series Official Announcement & Discussion Thread

[Professor Freeza]

If Jiren needs help against Vegeta then it seems like whatever power up he got was enough to put Jiren in a tough situation so if that's the case then he may not have as much trouble with Toppo as we thought.

Not exactly. We know Jiren > Belmod. But do we know by how much? Do we know if Belmod > Hakaishin Toppo?

Regardless of how strong Toppo becomes, Vegeta is still against 2 LEGIT GoD level opponents. Also it seems like Jiren is helping Toppo, not the other way around.

Problem is we dont have a benchmark of any kind. We dunno how strong SSBKK Goku is, how strong Current Jiren is close to his FP. Or anything else.

[Noah]

Not exactly. We know Jiren > Belmod. But do we know by how much? Do we know if Belmod > Hakaishin Toppo?

No, but I think it is:

Hakaishin Toppo = Jiren > Belmod

[sintzu]

Problem is we dont have a benchmark of any kind. We dunno how strong SSBKK Goku is, how strong Current Jiren is close to his FP. Or anything else.

Vegeta would have to be a lot stronger than his and Goku's current level to take on TWO fighters of that level. What I'm most interested in is why Goku isn't helping him, hopefully it goes like this :

Goku : Your fans are always hating on me for not letting you get enough to do so you can knock yourself out, I'm going over to One Piece where the main character is loved, maybe there I'll be appreciated for my hard work.

Vegeta : Wait wait...oh shit he's gone.

Beerus : What the hell just happened ?

Whis : He found a way to teleport to completely different Shonen...I'll tell you all later assuming you survive but you should as he'll get a boost in plot armor and Ki from his new main character status.

[Professor Freeza]

Not exactly. We know Jiren > Belmod. But do we know by how much? Do we know if Belmod > Hakaishin Toppo?

No, but I think it is:

Hakaishin Toppo = Jiren > Belmod

I heavily doubt Haksishin Toppo is stronger than belmod, much less jiren.

Problem is we dont have a benchmark of any kind. We dunno how strong SSBKK Goku is, how strong Current Jiren is close to his FP. Or anything else.

Vegeta would have to be a lot stronger than his and Goku's current level to take on TWO fighters of that level. What I'm most interested in is why Goku isn't helping him, hopefully it goes like this :

Goku : Your fans are always hating on me for not letting you get enough to do so you can knock yourself out, I'm going over to One Piece where the main character is loved, maybe there I'll be appreciated for my hard work.

Vegeta : Wait wait...oh shit he's gone.

Beerus : What the hell just happened ?

Whis : He found a way to teleport to completely different Shonen...I'll tell you all later assuming you survive but you should as he'll get a boost in plot armor and Ki from his new main character status.

Super Ultra instinct royal blue GoD Vegeta.


Will take out even Whis.

[Noah]

I heavily doubt Haksishin Toppo is stronger than belmod, much less Jiren.

Please, Toppo was there with Belmod in the Zen Exhibition Matches, he was the only mortal there (ignoring U7 and U9), thus indicating he intends to become a GoD. So he probably was on the way to surpass Belmod if not surpassed yet. Jiren is also stronger than Belmod, so I don't have a problem with him being equal with Toppo.

[Professor Freeza]

I heavily doubt Haksishin Toppo is stronger than belmod, much less Jiren.

Please, Toppo was there with Belmod in the Zen Exhibition Matches, he was the only mortal there (ignoring U7 and U9), thus indicating he intends to become a GoD. So he probably was on the way to surpass Belmod if not surpassed yet. Jiren is also stronger than Belmod, so I don't have a problem with him being equal with Toppo.

Toppo being a GoD has nothing with being stronger than Belmod. Where is it said that all GoD are equally strong? WE even know that Beerus > Champa.

Hakaishin Toppo doesnt need to be Stronger than Belmod

[Noah]

Toppo being a GoD has nothing with being stronger than Belmod. Where is it said that all GoD are equally strong? WE even know that Beerus > Champa. Hakaishin Toppo doesnt need to be Stronger than Belmod

Did I even mentioned that all Hakaishin are at same level? No, what I said is that Toppo being the one to replace Belmod means that he is or will be stronger than him. Why they would replace a GoD for a weaker one?

[Professor Freeza]

Toppo being a GoD has nothing with being stronger than Belmod. Where is it said that all GoD are equally strong? WE even know that Beerus > Champa. Hakaishin Toppo doesnt need to be Stronger than Belmod

Did I even mentioned that all Hakaishin are at same level? No, what I said is that Toppo being the one to replace Belmod means that he is or will be stronger than him. Why they would replace a GoD for a weaker one?

Why does that matter? A GoD isnt appointed by strength. Apparently even Beerus was once weaker than Kid Buu.

[BlueBasilisk]

I just realized what that symbol is on Toppo's chest. It's the same thing that's on Belmod's sash: a big circle, two small diamonds and a big diamond. A symbol representing U11 maybe?

[TheOtherDude]

I heavily doubt Haksishin Toppo is stronger than belmod, much less Jiren.

Please, Toppo was there with Belmod in the Zen Exhibition Matches, he was the only mortal there (ignoring U7 and U9), thus indicating he intends to become a GoD. So he probably was on the way to surpass Belmod if not surpassed yet. Jiren is also stronger than Belmod, so I don't have a problem with him being equal with Toppo.

I do. It was heavily implied and stated in both manga and anime that Jiren was much stronger than Toppo.

It’s bad enough that they lied to us at the beginning making it seem like Belmoud didn’t know Jiren (he wouldn’t of been concerned about Toppo beating Goku if that was the case) If it turns out that Toppo is as strong as Jiren or stronger than Belmoud, then that’s just absurd. The same logic applied to Jiren earlier could also be used with Toppos strength. IF Toppo “is” as strong/stronger than Belmoud, why would he be concerned about the level of power Goku displayed at the exhibition match when there was still a monstrous gap between them?

This is the kind of stuff people are getting upset about. It comes across as if they’re willing to lie about situations for the sake of tension. It’s either that or they just don’t know how to tell a story properly.

[Noah]

Why does that matter? A GoD isnt appointed by strength. Apparently even Beerus was once weaker than Kid Buu.

A Kaioshin maybe not, but a Hakaishin yes, they need to rely on raw power to clean the mess of the whole universe. Also Beerus being weaker than Pure Boo is merely speculation. Elder Kaioshin said the "guy" who sealed him on the Z was not evil as Boo.

I do. It was heavily implied and stated in both manga and anime that Jiren was much stronger than Toppo.

It’s bad enough that they lied to us at the beginning making it seem like Belmoud didn’t know Jiren (he wouldn’t of been concerned about Toppo beating Goku if that was the case) If it turns out that Toppo is as strong as Jiren or stronger than Belmoud, then that’s just absurd. The same logic applied to Jiren earlier could also be used with Toppos strength. IF Toppo “is” as strong/stronger than Belmoud, why would he be concerned about the level of power Goku displayed at the exhibition match when there was still a monstrous gap between them? This is the kind of stuff people are getting upset about.

Did I said stronger? No, I said equal to Jiren.

Also I can ask you the same question: why Dyspo took the risk of being eliminated by Hit or Goku when he could speed blitz them like he did in the previous episode?

Is not a matter of one being concerned about the other power and yes that the latter hasn't show its full power yet.

[Professor Freeza]

Why does that matter? A GoD isnt appointed by strength. Apparently even Beerus was once weaker than Kid Buu.

A Kaioshin maybe not, but a Hakaishin yes, they need to rely on raw power to clean the mess of the whole universe. Also Beerus being weaker than Pure Boo is merely speculation. Elder Kaioshin said the "guy" who sealed him on the Z was not evil as Boo.

Not exactly. Apparently a GoD only needs to clean out 1-2 planets at a time at most. Even Krillin can do that now.

[TheOtherDude]

Why does that matter? A GoD isnt appointed by strength. Apparently even Beerus was once weaker than Kid Buu.

A Kaioshin maybe not, but a Hakaishin yes, they need to rely on raw power to clean the mess of the whole universe. Also Beerus being weaker than Pure Boo is merely speculation. Elder Kaioshin said the "guy" who sealed him on the Z was not evil as Boo.

I do. It was heavily implied and stated in both manga and anime that Jiren was much stronger than Toppo.

It’s bad enough that they lied to us at the beginning making it seem like Belmoud didn’t know Jiren (he wouldn’t of been concerned about Toppo beating Goku if that was the case) If it turns out that Toppo is as strong as Jiren or stronger than Belmoud, then that’s just absurd. The same logic applied to Jiren earlier could also be used with Toppos strength. IF Toppo “is” as strong/stronger than Belmoud, why would he be concerned about the level of power Goku displayed at the exhibition match when there was still a monstrous gap between them? This is the kind of stuff people are getting upset about.

Did I said stronger? No, I said equal to Jiren.

Also I can ask you the same question: why Dyspo took the risk of being eliminated by Hit or Goku when he could speed blitz them like he did in the previous episode?

Is not a matter of one being concerned about the other power and yes that the latter hasn't show its full power yet.

Equal to Jiren would mean stronger than Belmoud.

I went back and added a line in before you had a chance to see that supported your statement.

Yes the Dyspo thing is silly too. From the beginning, they made him out to be scrub when he needed to be saved by Toppo. Now all of a sudden he was gaining a speed advantage on some fighters who we though were already at the speed he claimed to be at.

[TheSaiyanGod]

I heavily doubt Haksishin Toppo is stronger than belmod, much less Jiren.

Please, Toppo was there with Belmod in the Zen Exhibition Matches, he was the only mortal there (ignoring U7 and U9), thus indicating he intends to become a GoD. So he probably was on the way to surpass Belmod if not surpassed yet. Jiren is also stronger than Belmod, so I don't have a problem with him being equal with Toppo.

I do. It was heavily implied and stated in both manga and anime that Jiren was much stronger than Toppo.

It’s bad enough that they lied to us at the beginning making it seem like Belmoud didn’t know Jiren (he wouldn’t of been concerned about Toppo beating Goku if that was the case) If it turns out that Toppo is as strong as Jiren or stronger than Belmoud, then that’s just absurd. The same logic applied to Jiren earlier could also be used with Toppos strength. IF Toppo “is” as strong/stronger than Belmoud, why would he be concerned about the level of power Goku displayed at the exhibition match when there was still a monstrous gap between them?

This is the kind of stuff people are getting upset about. It comes across as if they’re willing to lie about situations for the sake of tension. It’s either that or they just don’t know how to tell a story properly.

Toppo probably worried about Goku's level because that power up he's going to get on EP 125 is not something he's ever been able to access, maybe it's an awakened power or something. After all, it was said that he was already prepared for the defeat against Freeza and the 17th, when something strange happens.

And it is possible that it reaches the level of Vermoud, this would not contradict what was said before. Jiren could still be much stronger than Toppo, this would only show that he is actually stronger than a GoD

[pacz360]

I heavily doubt Haksishin Toppo is stronger than belmod, much less Jiren.

Please, Toppo was there with Belmod in the Zen Exhibition Matches, he was the only mortal there (ignoring U7 and U9), thus indicating he intends to become a GoD. So he probably was on the way to surpass Belmod if not surpassed yet. Jiren is also stronger than Belmod, so I don't have a problem with him being equal with Toppo.

Toppo being a GoD has nothing with being stronger than Belmod. Where is it said that all GoD are equally strong? WE even know that Beerus > Champa.

Hakaishin Toppo doesnt need to be Stronger than Belmod

not really the anime makes it clear there equal in power there recent clashes say otherwise

Why does that matter? A GoD isnt appointed by strength. Apparently even Beerus was once weaker than Kid Buu.

A Kaioshin maybe not, but a Hakaishin yes, they need to rely on raw power to clean the mess of the whole universe. Also Beerus being weaker than Pure Boo is merely speculation. Elder Kaioshin said the "guy" who sealed him on the Z was not evil as Boo.

I do. It was heavily implied and stated in both manga and anime that Jiren was much stronger than Toppo.

It’s bad enough that they lied to us at the beginning making it seem like Belmoud didn’t know Jiren (he wouldn’t of been concerned about Toppo beating Goku if that was the case) If it turns out that Toppo is as strong as Jiren or stronger than Belmoud, then that’s just absurd. The same logic applied to Jiren earlier could also be used with Toppos strength. IF Toppo “is” as strong/stronger than Belmoud, why would he be concerned about the level of power Goku displayed at the exhibition match when there was still a monstrous gap between them? This is the kind of stuff people are getting upset about.

Did I said stronger? No, I said equal to Jiren.

Also I can ask you the same question: why Dyspo took the risk of being eliminated by Hit or Goku when he could speed blitz them like he did in the previous episode?

Is not a matter of one being concerned about the other power and yes that the latter hasn't show its full power yet.

Equal to Jiren would mean stronger than Belmoud.

I went back and added a line in before you had a chance to see that supported your statement.

Yes the Dyspo thing is silly too. From the beginning, they made him out to be scrub when he needed to be saved by Toppo. Now all of a sudden he was gaining a speed advantage on some fighters who we though were already at the speed he claimed to be at.

what you mean what claims dyspo made

[pacz360]

Please, Toppo was there with Belmod in the Zen Exhibition Matches, he was the only mortal there (ignoring U7 and U9), thus indicating he intends to become a GoD. So he probably was on the way to surpass Belmod if not surpassed yet. Jiren is also stronger than Belmod, so I don't have a problem with him being equal with Toppo.

I do. It was heavily implied and stated in both manga and anime that Jiren was much stronger than Toppo.

It’s bad enough that they lied to us at the beginning making it seem like Belmoud didn’t know Jiren (he wouldn’t of been concerned about Toppo beating Goku if that was the case) If it turns out that Toppo is as strong as Jiren or stronger than Belmoud, then that’s just absurd. The same logic applied to Jiren earlier could also be used with Toppos strength. IF Toppo “is” as strong/stronger than Belmoud, why would he be concerned about the level of power Goku displayed at the exhibition match when there was still a monstrous gap between them?

This is the kind of stuff people are getting upset about. It comes across as if they’re willing to lie about situations for the sake of tension. It’s either that or they just don’t know how to tell a story properly.

Toppo probably worried about Goku's level because that power up he's going to get on EP 125 is not something he's ever been able to access, maybe it's an awakened power or something. After all, it was said that he was already prepared for the defeat against Freeza and the 17th, when something strange happens.

And it is possible that it reaches the level of Vermoud, this would not contradict what was said before. Jiren could still be much stronger than Toppo, this would only show that he is actually stronger than a GoD

didnt the preview mentions him showing his true power

[The gr]

Wow Toppo looks awesome and I'm glad they didn't used the red sky, it would look ugly or probably they will the red sky in the final minute.

[ernesth100]

Hoping this episode gives us some more fancy shots. The art actually looks pretty good from simply the preview alone. But I'm assuming a lot of the best animation will be saved for episode 126 and forward as that seems to be when things are gonna be heating up

[TheSaiyanGod]

I do. It was heavily implied and stated in both manga and anime that Jiren was much stronger than Toppo.

It’s bad enough that they lied to us at the beginning making it seem like Belmoud didn’t know Jiren (he wouldn’t of been concerned about Toppo beating Goku if that was the case) If it turns out that Toppo is as strong as Jiren or stronger than Belmoud, then that’s just absurd. The same logic applied to Jiren earlier could also be used with Toppos strength. IF Toppo “is” as strong/stronger than Belmoud, why would he be concerned about the level of power Goku displayed at the exhibition match when there was still a monstrous gap between them?

This is the kind of stuff people are getting upset about. It comes across as if they’re willing to lie about situations for the sake of tension. It’s either that or they just don’t know how to tell a story properly.

Toppo probably worried about Goku's level because that power up he's going to get on EP 125 is not something he's ever been able to access, maybe it's an awakened power or something. After all, it was said that he was already prepared for the defeat against Freeza and the 17th, when something strange happens.

And it is possible that it reaches the level of Vermoud, this would not contradict what was said before. Jiren could still be much stronger than Toppo, this would only show that he is actually stronger than a GoD

didnt the preview mentions him showing his true power

Yes, but Toppo's '' true power '' could have simply awakened all his occult power, that does not mean he was always able to use that power. The synopsis reinforces saying that when he was prepared for defeat, something strange happens to his body

So probably Toppo did not know how to use all this power yet

[Ki Breaker]

With Toppo going all XenoVerse and Jiren shrugging away everything we throw at him, Universe 7 winning seems highly unlikely..
Is mastered UI really gonna be that effective is something I wonder..