The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Undertaker]

1) Ssj Broly > Ssj Goku stated in the Daizenshuu.
2) Broly is supposed to be the strongest Saiyan.
3) Broly easily handles Ssj2 Gohan
4) I think Goku and Gohan both turned Ssj2 at the end of the Family KHH
5) Just fits in with the whole mega villain thing

Gohan was the strongest at that time and SSJ2 Goku never existed

Goku never went SSJ2 because he was not in the Manga. Beating the weakest SSJ2 is not a great feat

[Draken]

1) Ssj Broly > Ssj Goku stated in the Daizenshuu.
2) Broly is supposed to be the strongest Saiyan.
3) Broly easily handles Ssj2 Gohan
4) I think Goku and Gohan both turned Ssj2 at the end of the Family KHH
5) Just fits in with the whole mega villain thing

Gohan was the strongest at that time and SSJ2 Goku never existed

Goku never went SSJ2 because he was not in the Manga. Beating the weakest SSJ2 is not a great feat

Using your argument Broly also never existed because he wasn't in the manga and this whole debate is pointless. In Toei-land, Goku can be a SSJ5 for all we know/they care. From what the animation shows, it strongly suggests both Goku and Gohan transformed into SSJ2's at the last second. You need to stop with your anime/movie/manga/I'm right you're wrong mentality.

[Kaboom]

If Dende can already be Earth's god in Movie 6, then Goku can be a Super Saiyan 2 in Movie 10.

[RandomGuy96]

1) Ssj Broly > Ssj Goku stated in the Daizenshuu.
2) Broly is supposed to be the strongest Saiyan.
3) Broly easily handles Ssj2 Gohan
4) I think Goku and Gohan both turned Ssj2 at the end of the Family KHH
5) Just fits in with the whole mega villain thing

1. So now the Daizenshuu is accurate? It wasn't when it came to Movie 5, apparently, where it established that Yardrat Goku was weaker than Movie 5 Goku. Also, did it specify which Goku this was? Buu Saga Goku?
2. Where was this stated? If this is to be taken as accurately, then Broly > SS3 Vegetto. You heard it here first folks.
3. Define "easily handles". Gohan put up a fight against him, unlike the massacre that was Broly vs everyone in Movie 8, and Broly was pretty pissed off that Gohan's hits actually affected him. I'd say that was a Goku vs Freeza level gap. Besides, again, literally any other SS2-tier fighter can beat SS2 teen Gohan. It puts Broly in the SS2 tier but it's not that impressive of a feat.
4. And Broly died.
5. "Mega villain"? He's the film counterpart to Cell, except his defeats are more pathetic. He had trouble with a Gohan that was called "pathetic" by Vegeta. He got trashed by an injured, out of shape Gohan and two toddlers. Come Movie 11, he's basically a slight annoyance to Pikkon and SS2 Goku, who go down to hell and casually kick his ass.

[Mjb1985]

Yea I used to think Broly = SPC for a long time, then this guy brought up that argument and I don't really have a problem with it. Sounds good enough to me.

[RandomGuy96]

What argument?

[PerfectFreeza]

Going back to Goku and Vegeta vs 18, there has to be a huge gap between the two.
Imperfect Cell before humans absorbtion should already be above SSJ Vegeta by a great amount, because Vegeta calls both his and Piccolo's ki absurdly high.
Chapter: 364 (DBZ 170), P10.1
Vegeta: “One of those guys with mysterious, absurdly large battle powers has vanished…But the other one remains…”
Context: the vanished one is Cell, and the remaining one is Piccolo
But Piccolo, who according to 16, was fighting and easily having advantage over Cell at a level, where he was rivaling 17 and 18.
Chapter: 362 (DBZ 168), P8.4-6
No.17: “So why don’t you tell us who’s fighting who, while you’re at it?”
No.16: “I don’t know. Neither is in my data. But one of the powers is large enough to rival you two.”
No.17: “What?! Looks like Doctor Gero screwed up again. Your radar is broken. There’s no power in the world that rivals mine.”
Later on, he powers up and equals 17.
Chapter: 368 (DBZ 174), P8.3
No.18: “He really is tough. He’s on par with No.17.”
Piccolo=17>18>Piccolo vs. Cell>>Cell>>SSJ Vegeta.
Yet 18 and Vegeta were having an almost equal fight, when Vegeta's stamina was alright.
Cell and Piccolo weren't really having an almost equal fight and they have to fit into a smaller gap.
So 18 had to be toying with Vegeta.

[Rocketman]

And yet, 17 says that Vegeta plus the peanut gallery will be too much for 18.

It's also worth noting that "absurdly large" doesn't necessarily mean "like triple my strength". Hell, Piccolo and Cell could be exact equals of Vegeta and still be "absurdly large" just because powers on that level shouldn't exist other than the Super Saiyans.

[Undertaker]

1) Ssj Broly > Ssj Goku stated in the Daizenshuu.
2) Broly is supposed to be the strongest Saiyan.
3) Broly easily handles Ssj2 Gohan
4) I think Goku and Gohan both turned Ssj2 at the end of the Family KHH
5) Just fits in with the whole mega villain thing

Gohan was the strongest at that time and SSJ2 Goku never existed

Goku never went SSJ2 because he was not in the Manga. Beating the weakest SSJ2 is not a great feat

Using your argument Broly also never existed because he wasn't in the manga and this whole debate is pointless. In Toei-land, Goku can be a SSJ5 for all we know/they care. From what the animation shows, it strongly suggests both Goku and Gohan transformed into SSJ2's at the last second. You need to stop with your anime/movie/manga/I'm right you're wrong mentality.

How can he go SSJ2 if he was not in the Manga? Show me something like that in the movies

Kaboom, Dende was the guardian because the movie happened on Namek IMO so Toei probably never wanted to use an irrelevant canon character during the main events of the movie IMO

Goku never even had his SSJ2 hair in the movie

[hleV]

How could Goku go SS in the 4th DBZ movie if he wasn't a SS in the manga?

[PerfectFreeza]

And yet, 17 says that Vegeta plus the peanut gallery will be too much for 18.

It's also worth noting that "absurdly large" doesn't necessarily mean "like triple my strength". Hell, Piccolo and Cell could be exact equals of Vegeta and still be "absurdly large" just because powers on that level shouldn't exist other than the Super Saiyans.

Goku, who should be almost equal to Vegeta, said he can't beat Cell.
Chapter: 366 (DBZ 172), P3.5
Context: after Goku recovers from his illness
Goku: “The way I am now, I definitely can’t beat the androids or this ‘Cell’ guy.”
The gap between the two wasn't that big, as Piccolo didn't make his judgmenent, until a bit later.
So Cell had to be at least around Vegeta for that statement to be true.Yet him and Piccolo were having a less of an equal fight, than 18 and Vegeta.But Piccolo is stated to be rivaling 18 and 17.

[Undertaker]

How could Goku go SS in the 4th DBZ movie if he wasn't a SS in the manga?

I addressed it

M4 is based on the Ginyu Arc where Goku is described as the Super Saiyan

Also, they just used their own SSJ. In M10 time, Goku was not known to have SSJ2

[Draken]

How could Goku go SS in the 4th DBZ movie if he wasn't a SS in the manga?

I addressed it

M4 is based on the Ginyu Arc where Goku is described as the Super Saiyan

Also, they just used their own SSJ. In M10 time, Goku was not known to have SSJ2

M10 Goku uses Toei's own version of SSJ2. Gg.

[Mjb1985]

Yea if you look at the last seconds of the Family KHH, Goku goes through a weird hair change. Doesn't seem to be from the blast either.

It looks like Goku goes Super Saiyan 2. In this movie, Goku's one strand of hair ( his Ssj2 hair ) is on the wrong side of what we usually see from Ssj2 Goku in the manga.

In M10, they do a flash back of the Family KHH in which Goku's one strand of hair is now on it's proper side.

There is some artwork depicting Gohan and Goku as Ssj2s or at least both having Ssj2 hair as well.

To me that's enough evidence, sounds pretty solid to me.

[Undertaker]

How could Goku go SS in the 4th DBZ movie if he wasn't a SS in the manga?

I addressed it

M4 is based on the Ginyu Arc where Goku is described as the Super Saiyan

Also, they just used their own SSJ. In M10 time, Goku was not known to have SSJ2

M10 Goku uses Toei's own version of SSJ2. Gg.

But it was not known Goku had SSJ2. It never existed as a statement

[hleV]

Goku was as much of a SS2 against Broli as he was a SS before the fight with Freeza. There's no guarantee that Toei didn't just go and make Goku a SS2.

[Mjb1985]

They can make Goku into whatever they want.

They seemed to put in a good deal of effort to show he was a Ssj2

[Draken]

But it was not known Goku had SSJ2. It never existed as a statement

Yea, it was not known Goku had SSJ4. It never existed as a statement. Therefore Toei is wrong having Goku as a SSJ4 in GT, because it never existed in the manga.

Do you realize what you're saying? Toei can do whatever the fuck they want with Goku.

[Kamiccolo9]

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron

[dbzfan7]

Super 17 vs Syn Shenron

Pre-Super 17 gets his ass handed to him (unless Syn keeps feeding him ki). Post SSJ4 ki 17 could win as he can read Sunkan Ido movement and absorbed Goku's attacks. Though I'm not sure how much stronger Goku got after the power up. Syn decimated a weaker SSJ4 Goku before he powered up. I think Super 17 wins as he could just absorb Syn's power and beat him.

Piccolo vs 17

If the fight continued without Cell's interruption, who would have won? Would Piccolo destroy the cyborg or would the eternal ki and stamina of 17 win the fight?