What is the lamest thing to come out of modern DBZ?

[Jinzoningen MULE]

Frost being evil.

I would have liked to have a good Freeza, it's such a fun idea.

[Gog]

Frost being evil.

I would have liked to have a good Freeza, it's such a fun idea.

It was honestly just disappointed when I found out that he was evil, as he was just Freeza but sneakier. I have a hunch that Toei found out how much everyone was disappointed over that, and I pray that Frost has become a good guy in the universal survival arc. Or if not I hope he gets the Vegeta treatment and all that juicy, juicy character development.

[kinisking]

ROF is an atrocity and I hate it more than any thing in dragonball including non-canon material.

[Gog]

ROF is an atrocity and I hate it more than any thing in dragonball including non-canon material.

Huh, that's interesting I consider it to be better than two whole Dragon Ball Z arc's, and my second favorite dragon ball movie. But as the old saying goes different strokes for different folks

[kinisking]

ROF is an atrocity and I hate it more than any thing in dragonball including non-canon material.

Huh, that's interesting I consider it to be better than two whole Dragon Ball Z arc's, and my second favorite dragon ball movie. But as the old saying goes different strokes for different folks

I thought you might disagree haha. It has too much sins for me. A returning villian (I hate that tbh), the ring incident (better in the super version), the start of the degradation of Gohan, Vegeta not getting the win, Freeza suddenly going to god level in 4 months (although it makes some sense it's still a bad move and makes all the power the heroes gained over years of training seem useless), introduction of ssb which inflated power levels much too quickly, and whis hax. Bolded are my least favorite but props for giving us the ROF outfits and training under Whis.

[precita]

Whis having a 5 minute rewind is actually an important story element, its not like it was there for nothing.

[kinisking]

Whis having a 5 minute rewind is actually an important story element, its not like it was there for nothing.

Doesn't mean I have to like it.

[Gog]

I thought you might disagree haha.

*starts sweating* am I really getting that predictable?

It has too much sins for me. A returning villian (I hate that tbh), the ring incident (better in the super version), the start of the degradation of Gohan, Vegeta not getting the win, Freeza suddenly going to god level in 4 months (although it makes some sense it's still a bad move and makes all the power the heroes gained over years of training seem useless), introduction of ssb which inflated power levels much too quickly, and whis hax. Bolded are my least favorite but props for giving us the ROF outfits and training under Whis.

Yeah a returning villain would be bad, but Freeza! ( ), actually not holding your guard was a thing since the start of dragon ball, and it was a lazer, not a bullet. Gohan's degradation started in the Cell Saga, fuck Vegeta I would have actually left the movie if he had gotten the win. There is literally no reason why he should get the win. None at all, in fact Freeza is the entire reason why Vegeta is where he is right now.

Actually for some reason I don't actually mind Freeza getting the god power in four months, it basically makes the android saga more bearable, as it means that even though Dr Gero was somehow capable of creating androids stronger than him, give him a few months and he'll crush them (I even like it more, as it makes Goku and Freeza just more diffrent, Goku earned his power afer years of hard work, and Freeza just caught up like it was nothing. It was my second favorite scene in the movie, when Goku acknowledged that).

SSB is a bad form, Fuck Whis even my love of the movie, can never convince me that, that was a terrible ending. I'll admit one of the other reasons I loved ROF, was the Freeza transformation scene, it was just so well done.

[kinisking]

*starts sweating* am I really getting that predictable?

Yup, I bet your next post will be about dragonball you predictable bastard (;

Yeah a returning villain would be bad, but Freeza! ( ), actually not holding your guard was a thing since the start of dragon ball, and it was a lazer, not a bullet. Gohan's degradation started in the Cell Saga, fuck Vegeta I would have actually left the movie if he had gotten the win. There is literally no reason why he should get the win. None at all, in fact Freeza is the entire reason why Vegeta is where he is right now.

Actually for some reason I don't actually mind Freeza getting the god power in four months, it basically makes the android saga more bearable, as it means that even though Dr Gero was somehow capable of creating androids stronger than him, give him a few months and he'll crush them (I even like it more, as it makes Goku and Freeza just more diffrent, Goku earned his power afer years of hard work, and Freeza just caught up like it was nothing. It was my second favorite scene in the movie, when Goku acknowledged that).

SSB is a bad form, Fuck Whis even my love of the movie, can never convince me that, that was a terrible ending. I'll admit one of the other reasons I loved ROF, was the Freeza transformation scene, it was just so well done.

Freeza isn't that great of a villian to me . Not holding your guard, fine. But did it have to be a regular laser? Just say that Freeza stored his ki in that ring and the movie becomes almost tolerable.

Are you talking about him not training after the cell saga or the OOC way he was acting during the Cell saga? For the former, I don't believe he degraded at all. Gohan in the boo saga is the absolute best character in fiction imo. His only flaw was that he stopped training and even then I don't mind it as much. It made perfect sense for him to stop training imo. The dude reached a level far surpassing everyone else and he probably thought that the earth wouldn't be in danger again. Remember, even Goku slacked off in the time between Dragonball and Z (slightly less than Gohan, but for someone who likes fighting it's comparable). The boo saga should have woken him the fuck up though. It was then that he should've realized that a stronger villian can and does come at any moment. The Beerus Saga reinforces this. So, to have Gohan suddenly get drastically weaker despite that (and the fact that he could literally hold hands with his family and get a huge power up) is a sin to his character. Gohan isn't stupid. What makes this really piss me off though is that the affects on him were far more drastic than ever. Ignoring the fact that I didn't like that they made him weaker, they could've treated him with more respect. If he looked and was as strong as his boo saga self maybe I wouldn't have minded as much. Did they really need to change his design that much and make him that weak though? It's inconsistent for him to drop that much in powerlevel and muscle mass in one year since BOG. Then they'res him being treated like a joke. He didn't need to get one punched by Freeza's base form. The arc makes it even worse where he needs to be saved by Piccolo like he's a child again and has that pathetically drawn face when he faints. ROF on is where he starts being treated like an incapable fighter when before that he was always respected even if he had lost power.

Vegeta's negative experiences with Freeza far surpasses Goku's.

It would've been awesome if we were introduced to Zuno here and Zuno tells him everything that Goku did to get stronger. Than Freeza embarks on his own training following everything that Goku did.

Freeza's transformation was nice and there were some good scenes but man was this movie dissapointing. It could've been done much better.

[ekrolo2]

I know I said femBroly was bad but I think the lamest thing about the new stuff is that it fails to justify its own existence. It doesn't advance any of the characters in interesting ways, it has no consistency within itself and what ideas of genuine worth show up, they're pretty thoroughly wasted and it's verging on total creative bankruptcy.

I knew it was gonna turn out like this but it is still disappointing a lot of franchise revivals are going to the way of Super/Force Awakens and not Casino Royale or Batman Begins. Now THOSE are examples of how you bring a series back with a strong creative voice behind it who've got something interesting to do with it and in good quality too.

[Gog]

*starts sweating* am I really getting that predictable?

Yup, I bet your next post will be about dragonball you predictable bastard (;

WHAT! How did you know?!?

Freeza's transformation was nice and there were some good scenes but man was this movie dissapointing. It could've been done much better.

I was going to type a gigantic post, but then I found out you like Golden Freeza, and all your sins are forgiven. The movie was disappointing even I as a fan of it know that this movie is a disappointment. And unlike Freeza this movie never got its ultimate evolution, because fuck, ROF could have been the end game saga, it should have been the best saga. But no, its a popcorn flick.

Also half of the reason why I loved this movie was Freeza, and Chris ayers performance. Man he is a perfect voice actor

[Noah]

I knew it was gonna turn out like this but it is still disappointing a lot of franchise revivals are going to the way of Super/Force Awakens and not Casino Royale or Batman Begins. Now THOSE are examples of how you bring a series back with a strong creative voice behind it who've got something interesting to do with it and in good quality too.

My thoughts exactly. It's like Super is never going to be it's own thing, GT was bad but at least was trying to do something new. Super will always live the Z shadow.

[Lord Beerus]

I knew it was gonna turn out like this but it is still disappointing a lot of franchise revivals are going to the way of Super/Force Awakens and not Casino Royale or Batman Begins. Now THOSE are examples of how you bring a series back with a strong creative voice behind it who've got something interesting to do with it and in good quality too.

My thoughts exactly. It's like Super is never going to be it's own thing, GT was bad but at least was trying to do something new. Super will always live the Z shadow.

Before Super, Dragon Ball never entertained the idea of other universes existing, as well as Destroyer Gods, or Angels.

[precita]

Poor treatment of kid Trunks and Goten after the Buu arc. Even the 2008 special focused on them.

[Gog]

I knew it was gonna turn out like this but it is still disappointing a lot of franchise revivals are going to the way of Super/Force Awakens and not Casino Royale or Batman Begins. Now THOSE are examples of how you bring a series back with a strong creative voice behind it who've got something interesting to do with it and in good quality too.

My thoughts exactly. It's like Super is never going to be it's own thing, GT was bad but at least was trying to do something new. Super will always live the Z shadow.

You mean how GT literally ripped of the entirety of the original Dragon Ball? How GT literally ripped of Dragon Ball Fusion reborn? How GT ripped off parts of Dragon ball especially in the Baby saga and the machine mutants, who were literally androids. GT is bad, and it was living in Dragon Ball Z's shadow, it only once tried out a new idea with Baby, and the shadow dragons but they were literal ass.

Now lets go to Dragon Ball Super, 12 universes, a tournament between the 6th and 7th one. A god hiding in the body of a mortal, using the mortal's power for his own gain. The list of creative idea's in Dragon Ball Super out match Dragon Ball GT's

[ekrolo2]

I knew it was gonna turn out like this but it is still disappointing a lot of franchise revivals are going to the way of Super/Force Awakens and not Casino Royale or Batman Begins. Now THOSE are examples of how you bring a series back with a strong creative voice behind it who've got something interesting to do with it and in good quality too.

My thoughts exactly. It's like Super is never going to be it's own thing, GT was bad but at least was trying to do something new. Super will always live the Z shadow.

You mean how GT literally ripped of the entirety of the original Dragon Ball? How GT literally ripped of Dragon Ball Fusion reborn? How GT ripped off parts of Dragon ball especially in the Baby saga and the machine mutants, who were literally androids. GT is bad, and it was living in Dragon Ball Z's shadow, it only once tried out a new idea with Baby, and the shadow dragons but they were literal ass.

Now lets go to Dragon Ball Super, 12 universes, a tournament between the 6th and 7th one. A god hiding in the body of a mortal, using the mortal's power for his own gain. The list of creative idea's in Dragon Ball Super out match Dragon Ball GT's

Evil Goku and the multiverse aren't original concepts at all though. We've had two evil Goku's before Black (Perfect Cell and Turles) and Trunks' alternate timelines basically functioned as the multiverse before the 12 universes were even a thing.

But creativity isn't my whole issue, Black and Baby are good examples of how a generic, trite idea can become highly entertaining thanks to good execution. The problem with both Super and GT is that they don't execute many things well, Super just ticks me the fuck off more because Zs and GTs problems are well and widely known so when you repeat that shit again and take it to bigger extremes, it only shows us that the people making this stuff live with their heads up their own assholes.

Toriyama's an old man who blew his entire load with the series decades ago and the people who're working to make his mediocrity into the anime & manga are operating under shit conditions. The anime staff is most assuredly just as rushed as the animation one and I don't even think they have an overall series composer to even kind of oversee things while Toyotaro has the shitty one month schedule holding him back. When you combine all of this stuff together, you get something that only really shines in the stuff outside of the main arcs.

[Gog]

Evil Goku and the multiverse aren't original concepts at all though. We've had two evil Goku's before Black (Perfect Cell and Turles) and Trunks' alternate timelines basically functioned as the multiverse before the 12 universes were even a thing.

But creativity isn't my whole issue, Black and Baby are good examples of how a generic, trite idea can become highly entertaining thanks to good execution. The problem with both Super and GT is that they don't execute many things well, Super just ticks me the fuck off more because Zs and GTs problems are well and widely known so when you repeat that shit again and take it to bigger extremes, it only shows us that the people making this stuff live with their heads up their own assholes.

Yes, but in Dragon ball they are original concepts. You mean we had one evil Goku. Cell only had saiyan instincts. Trunks alternate timeline's don't function the same, as twelve whole separate universes. But even then Goku Black isn't even an evil Goku, he just looks like him.

Actually now that I think about it, the lamest thing about modern Dragon ball is that they kept Toriyama's style of slip dash writing.

[ekrolo2]

Evil Goku and the multiverse aren't original concepts at all though. We've had two evil Goku's before Black (Perfect Cell and Turles) and Trunks' alternate timelines basically functioned as the multiverse before the 12 universes were even a thing.

But creativity isn't my whole issue, Black and Baby are good examples of how a generic, trite idea can become highly entertaining thanks to good execution. The problem with both Super and GT is that they don't execute many things well, Super just ticks me the fuck off more because Zs and GTs problems are well and widely known so when you repeat that shit again and take it to bigger extremes, it only shows us that the people making this stuff live with their heads up their own assholes.

Yes, but in Dragon ball they are original concepts. You mean we had one evil Goku. Cell only had saiyan instincts. Trunks alternate timeline's don't function the same, as twelve whole separate universes. But even then Goku Black isn't even an evil Goku, he just looks like him.

Actually now that I think about it, the lamest thing about modern Dragon ball is that they kept Toriyama's style of slip dash writing.

Cell is essentially evil Goku, the closest thing you can do to make Goku evil without completely changing his personality. He's what Goku would be if you took away what sense of right and wrong he has, along with his fairness. He's the version of Goku who'd torture and murder people so he could rile someone up for a good fight. Goku Black is a more successful take on Ginyu taking over Goku's body but make no mistake, his main selling point is "Goku's gone bad!" even if its just his body being used for bad things.

Trunks' timeline still works like a multiverse, a lot more to one than most of the new stuff with the exception of U6.

[Gog]

Cell is essentially evil Goku, the closest thing you can do to make Goku evil without completely changing his personality. He's what Goku would be if you took away what sense of right and wrong he has, along with his fairness. He's the version of Goku who'd torture and murder people so he could rile someone up for a good fight.

Trunks' timeline still works like a multiverse, a lot more to one than most of the new stuff with the exception of U6.

Cell is not a evil Goku, he exhibits some traits. But Cell's whole goal is to just to destroy the universe. An evil Goku wouldn't do that, an evil Goku wouldn't blow up worlds that exhibits powerful fighters that he only knows are the only one's capable of challenging him. Evil Goku would just stick around that world, fighting the warriors. He's the version of Goku who isn't Goku.

It really doesn't work like Dragon Ball super's twelve new universe's. Which are separate realities compared to the alternate realities that you can only make with Future Trunks time machine

[ekrolo2]

Cell is essentially evil Goku, the closest thing you can do to make Goku evil without completely changing his personality. He's what Goku would be if you took away what sense of right and wrong he has, along with his fairness. He's the version of Goku who'd torture and murder people so he could rile someone up for a good fight.

Trunks' timeline still works like a multiverse, a lot more to one than most of the new stuff with the exception of U6.

Cell is not a evil Goku, he exhibits some traits. But Cell's whole goal is to just to destroy the universe. An evil Goku wouldn't do that, an evil Goku wouldn't blow up worlds that exhibits powerful fighters that he only knows are the only one's capable of challenging him. Evil Goku would just stick around that world, fighting the warriors. He's the version of Goku who isn't Goku.

It really doesn't work like Dragon Ball super's twelve new universe's. Which are separate realities compared to the alternate realities that you can only make with Future Trunks time machine

Cell never says he wants to destroy the universe, he isn't even serious about destroying the Earth until he comes back from his suicidal explosion. Before that, he IS evil Goku. He intentionally lets Trunks go so he can come back stronger and pose a threat to him, he lets Goku eat a senzu so he can power up and they can keep fighting some more and then he purposefully tortures Gohan and everyone he cares about to get a strong opponent to fight.

This is a far cry from say Freeza or Vegeta who flipped shit the second anyone even momentarily put up an actual fight against them, Cell only does so when he's completely outclassed but before that, he WANTS his enemies to get stronger for his own amusement. Vegeta and Freeza wouldn't stand for this.

They're still a type of multiverse, I'd say more of one than the current version. Most multiverses are based around one reality then that getting changed around because of something happening differently. The only universe that kind of works like this in the new material is U6 to U7 but the others don't except to whoever they're paired up with.