The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[Kamiccolo9]

He was getting beaten up by normal human children and had trouble with a boar.

He also managed to make it to the finals of the Budokai without using SSJ, so I'm assuming he's somewhat stronger than the average child by then.

SS Goku Jr vs Tao

Well if SS is still a 50x multiplier, then Goku needs to have like, a power level under 2 when he transforms to lose to Tao.

Yeah, unless Tao can trick him into taking a bomb to the face, or slicing him with a hidden blade or something, I can't see him winning this.

[RandomGuy96]

I'm talking about the same Goku Jr. that fought the boar.

[Draken]

I'm talking about the same Goku Jr. that fought the boar.

Well a fat farmer had a power level of 5. I wouldn't say it's too hard to believe that fit kids could be 3. So if Goku jr was like, 2.5 or 3, then he'd easily stomp Tao.

[Mjb1985]

Tao Pai Pai is really strong. Even with a 50x boost I have a hard time seeing someone weaker than human kids being able to close that gap.

[Draken]

Tao Pai Pai is really strong. Even with a 50x boost I have a hard time seeing someone weaker than human kids being able to close that gap.

To be fair it was more like cell vs Gohan, Goku jr never wanted to fight back. Tao is only like, barely above 100 iirc, much weaker than Roshi. Anything a little above 2 and Goku's got it.

[TheMightyOzaru]

SS Goku Jr vs Tao

Well if SS is still a 50x multiplier, then Goku needs to have like, a power level under 2 when he transforms to lose to Tao.

Tao's power level is 110, it would have to be a level a little over 2. That said, Goku Jr stomps.

Tao Pai Pai is really strong. Even with a 50x boost I have a hard time seeing someone weaker than human kids being able to close that gap.

His BP is still 110. Goku Jr only needs a BP a little over 2.2 to beat him.

[Mjb1985]

Going by official power levels sure, but I don't really think about power in that manner.

I look at it things more in a chain manner.


A old fat farmer has a power level of 5. His power level should consist if what an average undersized man who has worked on a farm his whole life.

The Giant Fish Goku one shot kills in the beginning of the manga is a tremendous beast that probably eats humans like nothing.

The Pterodactyl is another step beyond this.

The Bear Bandit another step. Then there's Goku, the guy capable of chucking small cars and having axes break on his face with only minor damage.

After that there is a whole nother level with the Ox King who is nothing to Roshi. Roshi is a decent deal weaker than the Mummy who isn't comparable to the Devil Man. Tao Pai Pai is probably a good deal stronger than Devil Man as well.

I'd even go as far as to place Tao Pai Pai above the Triceratops and T-Rex, prehistoric beasts that are way beyond human comparison. Being able to kill a being probably on par with Roshi with his tongue is a ridiculous feat as well as being able to chuck a pillar a tremendous distance and having the capability of jumping on it is just mind blowing powerful.

Imo, the gap cannot be expressed in official numbers. I don't think these kind of beings can be reduced to numbers at all realistically.

But yea, when I think of the gap between the farmer and Tao Pai Pai, I start thinking about a human vs a T-Rex and most likely beyond.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Goku's physical strength and power pole gave him the victory with the pterodactyl and others... His power level is still 10 though, so he is no push over. official numbers have nothing to do with the physical strength of these characters. Yeah and destroying the Moon only requires a BP of 180, it's not hard to believe that he can put some Ki behind his strength to throw a poll a great distance.

[Mjb1985]

You can have great physical strength but strength has nothing to do with fighting prowess. A lot of times you will see a guy who can lift 300 pounds but can't hit hard. They are just two different things. And then you can get weaklings who can knock out a mule.

I don't think Goku punches all that much harder than Yamcha who should be able to easily knock out a giant bear who takes up the entire size of a road. You literally need to be able to knock out a mule to do that. They just don't make humans like that imo.

And the Prerodactyl imo is much weaker than the Bear Bandit. He used the power pole just because he couldn't close the range he could have one shot KO'd the flying Dino as well. Even easier.

[TheMightyOzaru]

strength is overshadowed by greater BP though. if you have greater BP and greater strength, you just tipped the scales even further in your favor. Despite Lil Goku's size, he is still a physical power house. He can lift cars, crush boulders, and survive bullets. He is definitely much stronger than Yamcha. The thing is, Goku Jr's BP is bound to be 150-200. He would cream Pai Pai.

[Mjb1985]

I disagree strongly here.

Goku Pre Roshu training already appeared to be stronger than Roshi, yet after 8 months of training and greatly increasing his strength, he's only able to match Roshi blow for blow.

If physical strength was actually a big factor in fighting I think he would have laid Roshi out even prior to his training.

[TheMightyOzaru]

I disagree strongly here.

Goku Pre Roshu training already appeared to be stronger than Roshi, yet after 8 months of training and greatly increasing his strength, he's only able to match Roshi blow for blow.

If physical strength was actually a big factor in fighting I think he would have laid Roshi out even prior to his training.

Strength is a big factor when you don't know how to control your Ki well. Goku doesn't know a single thing about his Ki at first, his physical strength is what allows him to win. Goku Jr having a BP of 150-200 would still snag him a victory because Tao wouldn't even be able to hurt him.

[Mjb1985]

Kibito doesn't seem to be a master at ki control yet he can fight Base Gohan even though he is greatly weaker.

[TheMightyOzaru]

Kibito doesn't seem to be a master at ki control yet he can fight Base Gohan even though he is greatly weaker.

He doesn't seem? How do you know? We never see him fight... Kibito isn't greatly weaker either...

[Mjb1985]

Kibito is a bumbler and that's why he was killed by Dabura. Sensed Ssj2 Gohan's massive power and is too arrogant to think Gohan could possibly lift the Zeta Sword. Kaioshin's many ki sensing failures. Etc etc.

Strength is not that big of a factor in fighting.

[Draken]

When has the stronger fighter ever lost...? Grade 3 Trunks doesn't count.

[Kamiccolo9]

When has the stronger fighter ever lost...? Grade 3 Trunks doesn't count.

Raditz. Mutaito technically "beat" Piccolo Daimao with the Mafuba. Puar and Upa beat that vampire guy. Goku was able to kill Piccolo Daimao even though he was crippled.

[Rocketman]

When has the stronger fighter ever lost...? Grade 3 Trunks doesn't count.

Why not?

[RandomGuy96]

Vegeta vs Goku

[Kamiccolo9]

Vegeta vs Goku

Goku didn't beat Vegeta, Vegeta beat himself by not getting out of the way of a giant falling monkey.