Super Animation Catalogue 2.0

[dhaval_dongre]

One Piece had five series directors out of 774 episodes.

Naruto had three series directors out of 711
episodes.

Hunter x Hunter (2011) only had one series director out of 148 episodes.

Dragon Ball Super had five series directors out of mere 77 episodes.

Mario Hatano left.

The key animators and animation supervisors still worked on the fillers, despite being conservative, except Episode #75.

Two animation supervisors constantly helping out each episodes.

Two chief animation supervisors.

No character designer popping up in episodes.

The scripts are rushed.

These are the signs that the production is in a horrible shape.

Its true that Super's schedule has been horrible since the series started, but it has improved since the U6 arc ended. But it still wasn't good enough. That was the entire point behind them doing 9 episodes of filler. Yes they used 2 supervisors per episode, with the exception of 75 for the filler arc. The FT arc had 3 supervisors for some episodes. How to you expect them to switch to 1 supervisor per episode just because it is filler. We saw nothing from Shida and Otsuka. Shimanuki's, Manabe's, Miura's and Karasawa's work was very miniscule and mainly involved corrections. Among the core staff Ishikawa, Tate, Yashima and Kitano to a certain extent did a considerable amount of work. We had animators from TAP and Korean studios as supervisors. Studios like Myu, A-line, Wanpack, TAP and some other Korean studios had a considerable amount of output in these set of episodes.(We had 2 Wanpack episodes to be accurate) The entire point behind the filler was to alleviate the pressure on the schedule, not fix it. It was never gonna be possible. There is still despite all that a possibility that the fillers might not help much, but as I said earlier its too early to tell. Also we dont know when exactly the 2 SD's started to work on the new arc. Why Hatano left is still unknown and Kohei's promotion as SD was temporary.
I am open to arguments from both sides. But how can you be so 100% sure that its not going to help the series. I am saying this for the 3rd time, lets wait and watch. I know it can be frustrating but unfortunately we dont have any time rings in the real world.

[Sodhi]

If anybody is wondering where the news of the new director is coming from, other than twitter, it is from here
http://www.animatetimes.com/news/detail ... 1486176350

[Ajay]

Nobody is pretending everything is "fine and dandy", It's just that we DON'T KNOW how things are going to be this arc, we need to WAIT and see what, if anything, has happened in the background over these past few months. The doom and gloom is unnecessary and a big overreaction when we STILL don't know exactly what's happening. For all we know they've worked diligently in the background these past few months to put many or even all of Super's problems in the past, or things could even be a bigger dumpster fire than ever before, we just don't know because we are missing key information, such as how the episodes of this arc will actually turn out. It's fine to voice concerns, but acting like we know for a fact that everything is on fire right now is premature and an overreaction.
We need to just wait and see what happens.

Morio Hatano would not have vanished were things fine. Chioka would not have vanished were things fine. We wouldn't have directors unable to physically work on their own shows if things were fine. These constant staff shuffles are the evidence. This. is. not. normal. How many more directors do we need to lose before it's okay to admit, "Hey, this show isn't doing good behind the scenes". It's been well over a year now. Super is Super; it's okay to admit that.

I feel like you're not separating episode quality from the state of the production, which is important to do if you actually want to have this conversation. Good episodes do not equal good production. As I said, I'm sure there will be great ones -- it may even be better than anything we've had in the past -- but that doesn't mean things are okay, and it certainly doesn't mean we can't talk about this stuff.

Look at Attack on Titan's first season. Great looking stuff from start to finish. You'd have no idea that the place started burning down halfway through unless you looked into things. That's what I'm getting at. I'm lamenting the house on fire, not the potentially beautiful fumes coming out of it.

[Gashif Aldi]

Calm down. I'm referring to Ajay's tweet because it's actually hilarious. Just seeing him change the opposite of his personality and making memes are just good.

I also refer to his tweet, because everyone's been crazy about the directors and the color palette. I mean these Directors didn't want to die. It's normal. They're giving their best, but it's their decision to fall.

Maybe it is all planned. The core thing to the changing-directors thing is just to improve the overall schedule.

I'm predicting they're like " Oh shit! What do we do?! Let's just change all of the directors, give Kouhei the fillers since Morio is sick. Let's hire Naga & Naka and give them some time. I don't care if we are given a bad name. We just need to fix the schedule first!"
It's emergency.

It rains before the rainbow comes, but sometimes the rainbow won't come out. That sentence is what everyone's been discussing about. And all of the people in this thread is as triggered as when I first come to this thread.

Just don't suffer from this series, or something that you guys call "Anxiety".

I guess my sarcasm is just too high that even myself wouldn't understand.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

Is not worrying, this is you stating matter of factly that they won't be able to do anything and will be gone at the end of the arc.

That was Kevin's point who was having a conversation with Ajay which I explained to Gashif. It's not that he is spouting nonsense and doesn't know what he's talking about. After what happened to Chioka and Hatano, it's perfectly natural to expect the same thing to happen to Nagamine.

[ekrolo2]

Morio Hatano would not have vanished were things fine. Chioka would not have vanished were things fine. We wouldn't have directors unable to physically work on their own shows if things were fine. These constant staff shuffles are the evidence. This. is. not. normal. How many more directors do we need to lose before it's okay to admit, "Hey, this show isn't doing good behind the scenes". It's been well over a year now. Super is Super; it's okay to admit that.

Clearly you must have this confused with another fanbase Ajay, cause everything Dragon Ball related is good besides Evolution, the Boo arc and GT, and if you talk about those three, they're putrid pieces of crap with no redeeming qualities. I am of course being sarcastic but people being REALLY stubborn about admitting that Super is a total disaster area even on the production side, an aspect you can actually judge with a great degree of objectivity, is something that shouldn't surprise you.

[ArchedThunder]

Morio Hatano would not have vanished were things fine. Chioka would not have vanished were things fine. We wouldn't have directors unable to physically work on their own shows if things were fine. These constant staff shuffles are the evidence. This. is. not. normal. How many more directors do we need to lose before it's okay to admit, "Hey, this show isn't doing good behind the scenes". It's been well over a year now. Super is Super; it's okay to admit that.

I feel like you're not separating episode quality from the state of the production, which is important to do if you actually want to have this conversation. Good episodes do not equal good production. As I said, I'm sure there will be great ones -- it may even be better than anything we've had in the past -- but that doesn't mean things are okay, and it certainly doesn't mean we can't talk about this stuff.

Look at Attack on Titan's first season. Great looking stuff from start to finish. You'd have no idea that the place started burning down halfway through unless you looked into things. That's what I'm getting at. I'm lamenting the house on fire, not the potentially beautiful fumes coming out of it.

You're completely ignoring what I said, I said I'm not pretending the production is fine, I'm saying we need to wait and see what it's like for the new arc BECAUSE WE DON'T KNOW.
We don't know when or why Nagamine and Nakamura were brought on board, for all we know their promotion to Series Director was a decision made months ago as a conscious effort to improve the show's production. You're using the show's production issues up to this point as proof of the state of the production for the new arc when we don't even know exactly what's been going on these past few months or when the decision to bring in new directors was made and if that decision was made by Morio or others and what the reasons for that decision was. If it's clear once the arc actually gets going that things are the same as they ever were then Morio probably just left because he was tired of the production and the two new series directors were simply brought in as replacements, but we don't know right now if that's the case or if they were brought on before as a measure to improve things. There's a million conclusions that could be drawn from the info we currently have, ranging from the show could be the biggest dumpster fire it's ever been all the way up to the show seeing a largely improved production and it's foolish to state matter of factly that any of them is the absolute correct answer when we are missing massive amounts of information. You can't solve a multi digit math equation with half of the numbers. We don't know when they were brought on board, we don't know why they were brought on board and we don't know the effect of them being brought on board. We simply don't know what the hell is going on right now and we just need to wait it out.

[Gashif Aldi]

Morio Hatano would not have vanished were things fine. Chioka would not have vanished were things fine. We wouldn't have directors unable to physically work on their own shows if things were fine. These constant staff shuffles are the evidence. This. is. not. normal. How many more directors do we need to lose before it's okay to admit, "Hey, this show isn't doing good behind the scenes". It's been well over a year now. Super is Super; it's okay to admit that.

Clearly you must have this confused with another fanbase Ajay, cause everything Dragon Ball related is good besides Evolution, the Boo arc and GT, and if you talk about those three, they're putrid pieces of crap with no redeeming qualities. I am of course being sarcastic but people being REALLY stubborn about admitting that Super is a total disaster area even on the production side, an aspect you can actually judge with a great degree of objectivity, is something that shouldn't surprise you.

DBZ still relies on so many things. Manga, way better schedule, had interesting fillers (lore exploring & filling plotholes), and the schedule made it good directing (such as those awesome things besides the manga that almost acts like a filler), good storyboards, good animations.

DBS didn't have anything to rely. No manga, no schedule, no interesting fillers, and the schedule made it no good directing, no good storyboard, no good animations.

Both of them are Toriyama.
It's just the DBZ had way perfect timing of airing.
And DBZ anime is a presentation of the manga.

As for now, I think their way of changing directors isn't like "f this shit, both of you got hired" More like "Let's coordinate this as a whole team, use these fillers to give the best. So, let's hire Naga & Naka. And let's ask for help by hiring Kouhei Hatano"

This was probably planned months before the 5 feb announcement.

[Psykomatik]

Personnally, i'm 100% with Arched Thunder. The production of this series is not that dramatic, you're all over-exaggerating things (and especially you, Saikyo no Senshi). Everyone is OK to say that Super "is a total disaster area on the production side", but why all this hate? Like Arched Thunder said a billion of times: We don't know. Perhaps everything was planned since the beginning of the Future Trunks arc. Who knows?

Like, to me, you're all spreading misinformation towards the community with all this over-negativity. YES, the production is bad, but it's not as bad as you're all pretending.
So please stop saiying dramatic things, or be negative. Please. It's been 10 weeks that everyone is like "hey, this arc is gonna be so good, look at all these conservatives episodes, look at how Karasawa did no key animation, look at how Tate is rough, look at Shimanuki, hell even Kitano is doing nothing, and hey, look at how basically all the fillers are outsourced, that's fantastic, and where the fuck is Yamamuro?", to finally, when we reach the beginning of the arc, saiying pesimistic things just because we've got two of the best directors at Toei leading the series from now on? Please...

(And sorry for my bad english :s)

[Shreyas_Singh]

Morio Hatano would not have vanished were things fine. Chioka would not have vanished were things fine. We wouldn't have directors unable to physically work on their own shows if things were fine. These constant staff shuffles are the evidence. This. is. not. normal. How many more directors do we need to lose before it's okay to admit, "Hey, this show isn't doing good behind the scenes". It's been well over a year now. Super is Super; it's okay to admit that.

Clearly you must have this confused with another fanbase Ajay, cause everything Dragon Ball related is good besides Evolution, the Boo arc and GT, and if you talk about those three, they're putrid pieces of crap with no redeeming qualities. I am of course being sarcastic but people being REALLY stubborn about admitting that Super is a total disaster area even on the production side, an aspect you can actually judge with a great degree of objectivity, is something that shouldn't surprise you.

DBZ still relies on so many things. Manga, way better schedule, had interesting fillers (lore exploring & filling plotholes), and the schedule made it good directing (such as those awesome things besides the manga that almost acts like a filler), good storyboards, good animations.

DBS didn't have anything to rely. No manga, no schedule, no interesting fillers, and the schedule made it no good directing, no good storyboard, no good animations.

Both of them are Toriyama.
It's just the DBZ had way perfect timing of airing.
And DBZ anime is a presentation of the manga.

Heyy! I think most DBS fillers are pretty good actually

[Gashif Aldi]

Clearly you must have this confused with another fanbase Ajay, cause everything Dragon Ball related is good besides Evolution, the Boo arc and GT, and if you talk about those three, they're putrid pieces of crap with no redeeming qualities. I am of course being sarcastic but people being REALLY stubborn about admitting that Super is a total disaster area even on the production side, an aspect you can actually judge with a great degree of objectivity, is something that shouldn't surprise you.

DBZ still relies on so many things. Manga, way better schedule, had interesting fillers (lore exploring & filling plotholes), and the schedule made it good directing (such as those awesome things besides the manga that almost acts like a filler), good storyboards, good animations.

DBS didn't have anything to rely. No manga, no schedule, no interesting fillers, and the schedule made it no good directing, no good storyboard, no good animations.

Both of them are Toriyama.
It's just the DBZ had way perfect timing of airing.
And DBZ anime is a presentation of the manga.

Heyy! I think most DBS fillers are pretty good actually

It's good. But it's not for helping the story.
Most of them are for entertainment.
They're using their storyboards for the next arc than lore-exploring and filling plotholes.

Like what Toyotaro did in the manga is amazing. With the explanation of Black's Zenkai is way better presentation of the anime.

[ArchedThunder]

Personnally, i'm 100% with Arched Thunder. The production of this series is not that dramatic, you're all over-exaggerating things (and especially you, Saikyo no Senshi). Everyone is OK to say that Super "is a total disaster area on the production side", but why all this hate? Like Arched Thunder said a billion of times: We don't know. Perhaps everything was planned since the beginning of the Future Trunks arc. Who knows?

Like, to me, you're all spreading misinformation towards the community with all this over-negativity. YES, the production is bad, but it's not as bad as you're all pretending.
So please stop saiying dramatic things, or be negative. Please. It's been 10 weeks that everyone is like "hey, this arc is gonna be so good, look at all these conservatives episodes, look at how Karasawa did no key animation, look at how Tate is rough, look at Shimanuki, hell even Kitano is doing nothing, and hey, look at how basically all the fillers are outsourced, that's fantastic, and where the fuck is Yamamuro?", to finally, when we reach the beginning of the arc, saiying pesimistic things just because we've got two of the best directors at Toei leading the series from now on? Please...

(And sorry for my bad english :s)

It's pretty clear that up to this point that things HAVE been pretty bad, my point is that there at least seems to be an effort to improve the production and the new directors might be a part of that so we don't know if the production is just as bad as it was for the Future Trunks arc or if it's been improved, be it minor or large. We are missing key information to make a conclusion on if the presence of the new directors are another sign of the production's issues, or if the we have new directors because they want to improve that production.

[Gashif Aldi]

The top conclusion is.

We don't know that if the changing-director is a long plan on improving the schedule, or it's just the production issues with Morio Hatano being exhausted.

Just don't see it in a terrible way. Industries are more complicated if you think flat.



My opinons:

Personally, I feel like Morio Hatano wasn't supposed to be in Super from the start. He's just temporary like Kouhei Hatano does (At least for the long plan). Or maybe all of these arcs are just a long planning (maybe all of them is just for the Universal Survival arc preperation).

They're choosing 5 Feb for a reason. Probably all of these was planned months before the arc's announcement. They're not that retarded.

[Lord Beerus]

A little late to news, but the new images and art of the Universal Survival arc look quite promising, and although we've lost another director, and an especially talented one in Morio Hatano, I won't write off this arc just yet because of the change in direction. Let's just see what we get before we can pass true judgement.

[Saikyo no Senshi]

I may have overexaggerated but I'm not spreading misinformation. Sorry, but I've got to defend myself. It's ridiculous. When Hatano was 2nd credited I expressed my concern and I was met with "let's wait and see" responses. Now, he's gone and I'm met with yet again "let's wait and see" responses.

How many directors will have to leave before everyone realizes DBS is a disaster overall. 1 good episode doesn't mean the production is better. If anything you guys are being overly defensive. I'm not hating. It's like you're trying to stop conversations from happening by saying "let's wait and see". Why do we even judge DBS' other aspects then? Let's wait and see until it gets over to form an opinion on it. But, that doesn't stop people from judging, so why not about the production?

We will never know all the production details. We will never know who appointed who. The industry is pretty tight regarding these matters. So, that's not a good reason to stop people from trying to discuss and make educated guesses about the production. I'll happily admit that I was wrong if I turn out to be wrong.

[JulieYBM]

Well, Yamamuro is sticking around. That sucks.

Dragon Ball Super is a mess. The fact that it's first episode of a brand new arc is being key animated by Yashima--who hasn't exactly disappeared from the staff rotation to work ahead of schedule--proves that we're stuck with the same small staff working on little time. Series directors have no time to personally implement their visions and good animators are running the other direction, staying as far as possible from the series. Two new series directors tells us Hatano Morio jumped ship as soon as he could and Nagamine was probably begged by Kido Atsushi to take over the series. Unless the staff pool suddenly doubles and the series can get a full cour finished ahead of broadcast the series is going to continue to languish in Hell and will never improve.

[perucho1990]

Sorry for being a noob about this but Kohei Hatano was like an interim Series Director?

If so then thats disappointing because his episodes have been very entertaining, he gave us good bunch of filler, miles better than the ones Under Morio Hatano and Chioka Kimitochi.

[Araki]

I think it's plain wrong to say Hatano "vanished" as he left at the end of an arc, unlike Chioka. Since schedule is tight and he likely wouldn't be able to start pre-production for the next arc at the same time, I'm guessing Nagamine and Nakamura, two great directors, were handled that task. Not to mention Hatano directed the climax of his arc, so his leaving was probably something planned, just like having a temporary and less skilled director for the "fillers" is no accident or coincidence.

And considering how successful and well received the FT arc was, as tired as he might be, Hatano is probably satisfied.

[ArchedThunder]

Speaking of production, I am curious to see what they do in the future. As of Toei's most recent financial report Dragon Ball is now their biggest money maker, it's a bit behind One Piece in Japan, but due to money coming in outside of Japan it is overall on top. Shueisha, Toei and Bandai likely want Dragon Ball's revival to last as long as possible and the crazy growth its seen in the past 3 years shows the strength of the brand. Bandai has recently made Dragon Ball games a big thing again and Shueisha recently created a division dedicated to Dragon Ball, both of them want this revival to last as long has humanly possible, but Super's production issues could complicate that. As much as I am very hopeful and feeling positive about a nice production improvement for the next arc I don't think thinks will be fixed with this arc. I think it's possible we see far more on model art and more staff, but the production will likely still have plenty of issues even if they aren't as readily apparent from the quality of the episodes and for Super to last as long as all the parties likely want it to last it needs to be a well oiled machine to ensure nothing disastrous happens. Some might say the money Dragon Ball is making is reason not to improve things for Super's production, but letting the production stay troubled for a series that could run for many years could completely ruin available staff, and they can't make a show without staff. I can understand why they haven't done anything too drastic to improve things before and simply made small improvements as they went, up until about 7 months ago they probably weren't entirely sure how long this revival for Dragon Ball would last so they might not have wanted to do anything drastic to improve production if the show was just going to end soon anyways, but now it's clear Dragon Ball is here to stay for the foreseeable future. I have to wonder if the 10 weeks of filler and the new directors are a "step 1" in making the show more easily sustainable and if we might see any huge changes in the future, maybe even as drastic as treating the arc after this one as a separate production with another new director and new writers, storyboarders/directors and even animators. I don't think that example is the most likely of things to happen, but who knows what lengths they might go to to make sure they can run Super for upwards of 10 years.

I may have overexaggerated but I'm not spreading misinformation. Sorry, but I've got to defend myself. It's ridiculous. When Hatano was 2nd credited I expressed my concern and I was met with "let's wait and see" responses. Now, he's gone and I'm met with yet again "let's wait and see" responses.

How many directors will have to leave before everyone realizes DBS is a disaster overall. 1 good episode doesn't mean the production is better. If anything you guys are being overly defensive. I'm not hating. It's like you're trying to stop conversations from happening by saying "let's wait and see". Why do we even judge DBS' other aspects then? Let's wait and see until it gets over to form an opinion on it. But, that doesn't stop people from judging, so why not about the production?

We will never know all the production details. We will never know who appointed who. The industry is pretty tight regarding these matters. So, that's not a good reason to stop people from trying to discuss and make educated guesses about the production. I'll happily admit that I was wrong if I turn out to be wrong.

I'm not trying to stop any conversations, I'm just bothered by the narrative going on right now. The "wait and see" attitude for Hatano Morio being listed second was because we didn't know just yet if he'd be leaving and Kohei was taking over, or if he was focusing on what's next while Kohei held down the fort for 10 weeks. Today's news adds a completely new wrinkle to the mix that could change a lot. Kohei's was indeed a temporary promotion, but not so that Morio could focus on what was next. Kohei may have been holding down the fort while Nagamine and Nakamura worked behind the scenes for the next arc, or maybe he was a temporary director while they found or prepped someone else. It's okay to be upset and worried about Morio's departure, but we have to wait and see what's going on because for all we know it might be a good thing for the series. That's why I want people to calm down and wait to see what happens, not because I want to shut down discussion, but because this is an odd move so different from the two scenarios that were postulated and we have no idea what it could mean. If Kohei was the sole SD as of 77 I would have become incredibly worried and probably pretty down on the show myself right now, but this news is more intriguing than worrying to me because it could mean any number of things, where as the narrative going around right now is focused on the most negative possibility because of past events even though this is different than what we've seen happen before with the show.

[JulieYBM]

Ishitani Megumi-senpai noticed me.

@JulieYBM Thank you! I will do my best!
By the way,It is Mr. Nagamine that directed the new opening!
Look forward to it!