"Dragon Ball Super (Manga)" Official Discussion Thread

[sintzu]

Trunks mentions that Kaioshin helped him with Dabra in the manga, but he dies in the process. That's what makes Whis mention the connection and that the Hakaishin (Beerus) is likely dead.

I guess we'll have to wait and see if the anime brings it up cause of it doesn't then it's likely an exclusive addition to the manga.

[samuo2]

My thoughts exactly. This is one of those things that just creates a big plot hole unless they have some further explanation that hopefully the next Super episode will cover.

I don't see any plotholes here, if all Kaïo Shins dies, the Kakaishin too, what is so hard to understand ?
Kaïo Shins has always been a group, I don't even know why the Hakaishin who is unique in each Univers should be linked to only one Kaïo Shin.

Pretty neat that the manga conserves this approach "informative" of the serie, after the creation of the term "SSJ Blue", the Flashback of Beerus and Champa fights and destroys several planets, Timelines, and other!

Otherwise, because of the unsure nature of the information I brought yesterday, and tbh I totally forgot too, I didn't mention the one who translated the "leaks" they found on the japanese forum 2chan:

[spoiler]In the new chapter we would learn that an Hakaishin et Kaio Shins are linked. If Kaïo Shins dies, Hakaishin too.[/spoiler]
Thanks to SSJGZetto from DB-Z.com for this translation

[spoiler]

ここは現状スレじゃなかったのか
未来で界王神はダーブラに殺されたので破壊神もいないことになってる
だから未来ではゴクウブラックが最強

A french member translated it like this:
I don't see this information on this thread so:
In the future, as Kaïo Shin was killed by Dabra, the Hakaishin disapeared too
That's why Gokû Black is the most powerfull in the future[/spoiler]
Thanks to Saiyuke from DB-Z.com for this one !

(Obviously you can see more about these informations on the main page of DB-Z.com uhuh)

[Grimlock]

I was thinking, if Hakaishin dies when all Kaioshins die, then that means Beerus won't die until both Kaioshin of East and Goku die, as the latter has the life of the former Kaioshin of East. Is that even possible!?

[THEGOKU]

That is not the confusing part. None of it is really hard to understand it is just things lining up the right way for a accurate timeline. Of course Beerus wasn't planned while all the Buu stuff was going on but the plot hole or maybe I'm just using the wrong phrase is of things adding up correctly. For example when Raditz comes he says Planet Vegeta was destroyed by a meteor which was the original reason until Toriyama created Freeza thus using him as the actual reason. It is just about new characters and new information lining up with what is already known. I'm sorry if that isn't clear but hopefully my general idea is understood. I'm at work so at this moment I don't have time for a full elaborate post

@Grimlock. Then in RoF Beerus would have interfered after Goku was hit with Sorbet's laser ring because of the fact Goku could have died. At least that is what I think but you bring up a good point.

[samuo2]

That is not the confusing part. None of it is really hard to understand it is just things lining up the right way for a accurate timeline. Of course Beerus wasn't planned while all the Buu stuff was going on but the plot hole or maybe I'm just using the wrong phrase is of things adding up correctly. For example when Raditz comes he says Planet Vegeta was destroyed by a meteor which was the original reason until Toriyama created Freeza thus using him as the actual reason. It is just about new characters and new information lining up with what is already known. I'm sorry if that isn't clear but hopefully my general idea is understood. I'm at work so at this moment I don't have time for a full elaborate post

Ahhh I see ! Yeah I don't treat that as "plotholes" but yeah for sure it's funny (for me) see these additions of informations to try to make it believable
It's one of the specialities of Toriyama to link somethings with other, he's really resourcefull.

I was thinking, if Hakaishin dies when all Kaioshins die, then that means Beerus won't die until both Kaioshin of East and Goku die, as the latter has the life of the former Kaioshin of East. Is that even possible!?

Hm.. I don't get why you're talking about Gokû
But I'm ok with the second part of your sentence, till East Kaïo Shin is alive, no problem for Beerus.

[Grimlock]

Then read again my comment, I explain why I talked about Goku.

@Grimlock. Then in RoF Beerus would have interfered after Goku was hit with Sorbet's laser ring because of the fact Goku could have died. At least that is what I think but you bring up a good point.

Beerus doesn't know the former Kaioshin of East gave up his life and gave it to Goku.

[Alruneia]

Well, since it seems to be true, I guess I'll have to put my mind to this mess after all...
So far, it seems like when every Supreme Kai dies, the God of Destruction dies as well. However, Kais have lifespans and are born from fruit on that core tree. That bothers me, because even if all Kais die at some point, new ones will eventually replace them. Does the God of Destruction get brought back to life, then? If the God of Destruction dies, will all the Supreme Kais automatically die (see Kami in the Saiyan Saga)? Does the core tree randomly die if the God of Destruction or all Supreme Kais are eliminated, preventing new Kais from being born? What happens to the normal Kais (like King Kai)? What about the God of Destruction and the Supreme Kais' attendants? Do they die as well? Do they just go find a new job? Why did Beerus and Whis not intercept Buu if Beerus' life was at stake? Why did Future Beerus and Future Whis not intercept Future Dabura, thus letting Future Supreme Kai, and Future Beerus(!), die? You'd think Whis would look for stuff like that... I have too many questions!

[Psykomatik]

Il parle de Goku car le vénérable aïeul / vénérable Kaio Shin lui a donné sa vie dans la saga Majin Boo

[Khin]

Well, since it seems to be true, I guess I'll have to put my mind to this mess after all...
So far, it seems like when every Supreme Kai dies, the God of Destruction dies as well. However, Kais have lifespans and are born from fruit on that core tree. That bothers me, because even if all Kais die at some point, new ones will eventually replace them. Does the God of Destruction get brought back to life, then?

I assume there will be no replacement Kaioshins until all of them will die. Which explains why the Kaioshins that Majin Boo killed still isn't replaced by new ones. So when all the Kaioshin dies, the Hakaishin dies as well; so it will be like a restart, new Kaioshins will be born and new Hakaishin will be appointed.

[samuo2]

Waouh, merci Psyko j'étais tellement pas dedans ! J'avais beau relire les posts, impossible de trouver le rapport
___________________________________________________
Thanks Psyko, I wasn't in at all, Even if I was reading again and again the messages I wasn't able to understand.

Anyway, I don't see that like this.
Give life to someone doesn't count like he gives to Gokû his name, his grade etc, it makes no sense for me. If it was the case Gokû should be treat as a God, maybe with God Ki and so one doesn't it ?

[THEGOKU]

Well, since it seems to be true, I guess I'll have to put my mind to this mess after all...
So far, it seems like when every Supreme Kai dies, the God of Destruction dies as well. However, Kais have lifespans and are born from fruit on that core tree. That bothers me, because even if all Kais die at some point, new ones will eventually replace them. Does the God of Destruction get brought back to life, then? If the God of Destruction dies, will all the Supreme Kais automatically die (see Kami in the Saiyan Saga)? Does the core tree randomly die if the God of Destruction or all Supreme Kais are eliminated, preventing new Kais from being born? What happens to the normal Kais (like King Kai)? What about the God of Destruction and the Supreme Kais' attendants? Do they die as well? Do they just go find a new job? Why did Beerus and Whis not intercept Buu if Beerus' life was at stake? Why did Future Beerus and Future Whis not intercept Future Dabura, thus letting Future Supreme Kai, and Future Beerus(!), die? You'd think Whis would look for stuff like that... I have too many questions!

Exactly. When Piccolo died Kami died and they were always aware of that (even though when demon king piccolo died Kami should have died but that isn't here or there at the moment.) This just keeps things from being well connected. As for future Whis and Future Beerus that's where a big question lies that we won't have an answer too. I really think there needs to be another trunks special or at least the one they show on the 27th clears a lot of this up. We still don't know who Black is and now this...one thing at a time please

[dbzfan7]

This doesn't make a lot of sense, but I like it. Means Beerus can die without being overpowered. Adds a neat weakness to him.

[SansrivaaL]

Woah.... who knew the hakaishins had such a weakness.... that is bad news for Beerus, dude can die without knowing it if someone were to kill the kaioshins.

[TheMikado]

I like Gods of destruction having this weakness, also I find it interesting that Kaioshins are born to the position but Gods of destruction are selected.

[Grimlock]

I just feel this was just added because they (Toriyama) don't want to show Beerus and Whis from alternate timeline... They want to make the present timeline "unique".

EDIT: Confirmed! Trunks used Super Saiyan 2 (and the Masenko technique) against Goku Black in their last fight before Trunks travels to the past, but he was clearly as Super Saiyan in the anime.

[THEGOKU]

I just feel this was just added because they (Toriyama) don't want to show Beerus and Whis from alternate timeline... They want to make the present timeline "unique".

EDIT: Confirmed! Trunks used Super Saiyan 2 (and the Masenko technique) against Goku Black in their last fight before Trunks travels to the past, but he was clearly as Super Saiyan in the anime.

His hair in the anime when he transforms looks terrible and very different from how it use to be in z so it wasn't really easy to tell. Good thing for the manga drawings.

[Draconic]

I don't know how to feel about this. On one hand I think having the Kaioshin and the Hakaishin linked is a pretty stupid idea, but on the other hand the fact that Beerus might finally be in somekind of danger after all this time could lead to some tension building up.

Also, it makes sense how Zamasu would take control over Universe 10 so easily, killing Gowasu and whoever might be a Kaioshin there, leading to that Universe's Hakaishin to die and allowing him to control Black unoppossed. However, it's hard to take in that nobody would investigate such a thing. Maybe the Whis-race guy from the next episode was U10 Hakaishin's attendant?

If it's not just something Toyotaro pulled out of his ass, it could lead the story to some very very interesting places, though I think it most likely is just one of his additions.

[samuo2]

but he was clearly as Super Saiyan in the anime.

Or just a "trick" to keep the suspens, like the Black's Time Ring which we saw only after Trunk's Time Travel.

[Grimlock]

And I think you talk about this image:
(source: DB-Z.com)

You shouldn't be posting that full scan...

[LightBing]

It seems there's only incomplete information. Better to avoid any conclusions, or this thread will turn toxic like it did with the Hit vs Goku chapter.

We have to assume the God link is exclusive to the manga and therefore Toyotarõ invention. Altought it's still possible for the anime to mention it.
I see no point in this tidbit as of yet. It always made sense to me that Beerus didn't interfere, why would he care after all. Now he had a reason to care, at least in the Boo conflict.
Do we have a time-frame for the Boo conflict? I remember in the anime, Boo killed most Kaioshins individually and in different places. If the time-frame is small, then in-universe Beerus absent is justifiable.

Regarding SSJ2, Goku appears to have it. That doesn't make it a mess, ala anime. I hope there's an explanation attached with it.