Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[Bullza]

The biggest problem with Vegetto is that we never saw his upper limit. Like, how would Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto fair against Beerus?

Well it's always been assumed that Super Saiyan 3 was taken into account when he said it stood no chance against Beerus.

When he became a Super Saiyan God, Goku said it was a power he didn't think even existed and he was only using about 80% of his power at that point and he should know how strong Vegito would be if he can say he couldn't beat Beerus.

From a story perspective Super Saiyan God should be much stronger than Vegito at his best, it would make no sense to write off one method as standing no chance against the villain and then have the rest of the story be about and introduce this new Super Saiyan God form which is what he uses in the final battle with said villain if it were just intended to be weaker.

So Super Saiyan God Goku > Super Saiyan 3 Vegito.

Base goku/vegeta ~ ultimate gohan buu arc(possibly buutenks)

But Ultimate Gohan was defeated by a suppressed Beerus just smacking him into Buu. Base Goku put up a decent fight against Beerus though.

The difference is made abundantly clear in the Battle of Gods movie that Base Goku is far above the likes of Ultimate Gohan.

[HeroR]

The biggest problem with Vegetto is that we never saw his upper limit. Like, how would Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto fair against Beerus?

Well it's always been assumed that Super Saiyan 3 was taken into account when he said it stood no chance against Beerus.

When he became a Super Saiyan God, Goku said it was a power he didn't think even existed and he was only using about 80% of his power at that point and he should know how strong Vegito would be if he can say he couldn't beat Beerus.

From a story perspective Super Saiyan God should be much stronger than Vegito at his best, it would make no sense to write off one method as standing no chance against the villain and then have the rest of the story be about and introduce this new Super Saiyan God form which is what he uses in the final battle with said villain if it were just intended to be weaker.

So Super Saiyan God Goku > Super Saiyan 3 Vegito.

Base goku/vegeta ~ ultimate gohan buu arc(possibly buutenks)

But Ultimate Gohan was defeated by a suppressed Beerus just smacking him into Buu. Base Goku put up a decent fight against Beerus though.

The difference is made abundantly clear in the Battle of Gods movie that Base Goku is far above the likes of Ultimate Gohan.

More specifically Goku said Vegetto couldn't beat Beerus, and Super Saiyan God Goku didn't beat Beerus either.

I also assume Super Saiyan God Goku is above Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto, but I can't prove it. I can only assume that is the case by Goku calling godhood like nothing he ever felt before. And we get into how much Super Saiyan God Goku outclass Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto.

[ssbgoku]

The biggest problem with Vegetto is that we never saw his upper limit. Like, how would Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto fair against Beerus?

Well it's always been assumed that Super Saiyan 3 was taken into account when he said it stood no chance against Beerus.

When he became a Super Saiyan God, Goku said it was a power he didn't think even existed and he was only using about 80% of his power at that point and he should know how strong Vegito would be if he can say he couldn't beat Beerus.

From a story perspective Super Saiyan God should be much stronger than Vegito at his best, it would make no sense to write off one method as standing no chance against the villain and then have the rest of the story be about and introduce this new Super Saiyan God form which is what he uses in the final battle with said villain if it were just intended to be weaker.

So Super Saiyan God Goku > Super Saiyan 3 Vegito.

Base goku/vegeta ~ ultimate gohan buu arc(possibly buutenks)

But Ultimate Gohan was defeated by a suppressed Beerus just smacking him into Buu. Base Goku put up a decent fight against Beerus though.

The difference is made abundantly clear in the Battle of Gods movie that Base Goku is far above the likes of Ultimate Gohan.

1) That correct about First, However even then it doesn't mean ssg has to be much above ss3 vegetto buu arc. and to go by your statement I could see ss3 vegetto at the least 50% of ssg to 75% to be still below 80%, depending if initial ssg was 60% or more. That put ss3 vegetto buu arc at least 3 to max 4.5 in god scale.

And nope, we can not be certain that goku included ss3 transformation as vegetto power, hell it is not certain that goku was considering fp ss vegetto or supressed while fighting buuhan.

2) That true, if you consider bog ultimate gohan~ buu arc ultimate gohan and same with gotenks. However in my opinion and by extension of theme of peace time which should be clear and simple was to show in time of peace you are getting weaker unless you keep training, that why I see only goku and vegeta improving while everyone else slightly slacking off to let's say 80% of full power. Base goku fighting beerus in monaca costume was pis, also we shouldn't treat it as obvious as beerus eariler expected ssg level opponent so he was hard to impress but now he is just itching for fight with goku so he doesn't complain, as he know they were only sparring for fun and it would get better as goku was pushed to transform. I see them at the best at buutenks level in base, but it is hard to assume that as base goku for some reason needed ss2(probably only for show off) against ss2 trunks to find out how strong black is

[RandomGuy96]

But Ultimate Gohan was defeated by a suppressed Beerus just smacking him into Buu. Base Goku put up a decent fight against Beerus though.

The difference is made abundantly clear in the Battle of Gods movie that Base Goku is far above the likes of Ultimate Gohan.

That very obviously doesn't mean anything, as we know for a fact that Beerus could've smashed him like a bug at any time. Numerous times there's implied to be a huge gap between base and SS/SSG/SSB, and Beerus is over ten times as strong as SSG/SSB on top of that.

[Bullza]

I also assume Super Saiyan God Goku is above Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto, but I can't prove it.

There's nothing to prove it, there's nothing to prove he was even referring to Super Saiyan 3 Vegito because such a form has never existed. It could have just been Gogeta for all we know.

But as I said the only two things that really point to SSJG being superior is Goku having a rough idea of how strong fusion would be (which makes sense) but then him as a God saying he didn't know such a power existed and then just what the point would be of Toriyama writing the movie as "Beerus is so powerful than even Fusion wouldn't stand a chance against him so let's hype up and introduce Super Saiyan God and then make that stand even less of a chance."

However even then it doesn't mean ssg has to be much above ss3 vegetto buu arc. and to go by your statement I could see ss3 vegetto at the least 50% of ssg to 75% to be still below 80%, depending if initial ssg was 60% or more. That put ss3 vegetto buu arc at least 3 to max 4.5 in god scale.

That's true. 80% SSJG would be a 4.8. SSJ3 Vegito could be a 3-4 and that'd make Super Vegito a 0.5 at best but SSJ3 Vegito isn't Buu saga level because he never appeared. The best the saga had to show would be under a 1 on the scale and that doesn't compare to most those who appear now.

However in my opinion and by extension of theme of peace time which should be clear and simple was to show in time of peace you are getting weaker unless you keep training

Well that's the other thing, if Ultimate Gohan was weaker compared to the Buu saga. At the time Battle of Gods came out I think it was fine just to assume he wasnt but then Resurrection F brought up how he had got weaker so maybe that had already kicked in by the time he fought Beerus.

It may not particularly mean much in the slightest but the Dragon Ball Heroes game has Saiyan Beyond God (which is just their base now) as giving +6,000 power, the same as Super Saiyan Beyond Limits which was what Goku became before he first became a God and Gohan said he had the most power of anyone in history.

In the movie Base Goku was able to hurt Beerus, could Buutenks is do the same? Goku was able to hold his against against Beerus much better than what Buuhan was able to against Super Vegito.

If Base Goku in the anime is supposed to be as strong as he appeared to be in the movie when he fought Beerus then really nobody aside from arguably Vegito should be comparable to him.

[Bullza]

That very obviously doesn't mean anything, as we know for a fact that Beerus could've smashed him like a bug at any time. Numerous times there's implied to be a huge gap between base and SS/SSG/SSB, and Beerus is over ten times as strong as SSG/SSB on top of that.

He might be able to beat Goku without effort but the fight showed there was a huge difference between Base Goku and Ultimate Gohan.

In the movie Beerus kicks Gohan in the stomach and he's beaten. A much more serious Beerus punches, elbows and kicks Goku and he still keeps fighting.

In the anime Beerus grabs Gohan, swings him into Buu and he's beaten. Goku however while in Base form destroys Beerus' blast, gets hit with unrestrained tail whip, gets hit with a unrestrained mouth blast and gets punched in the face and he stays conscious.

Base Goku doesn't compare to Beerus but he's far stronger than Gohan.

[ssbgoku]

Also, I would like to prove example with previous strongest villain or hero being considered as joke in next arc isn't true. I mean people use perfect cell example and states that he was joke in buu arc, but it isn't true. Let's see:

Namek arc - the strongest one is Frieeza as villain and ss goku as hero

Android arc - Frieeza was still used to meassure how strong androids are, still relevant to android 19 or 20. While namek arc ss goku could beat them as well if not for his issue with heart(virus). They were only suprassed by goku, vegeta, android 17,18,16, cell, future trunks, gohan and picoolo, but everyone else still was scared about idea of frieeza, still quite a lot of characters, right ? Now in the android arc the strongest villain was cell while the strongest hero was ss2 kid gohan.

Buu arc - Perfect Cell was scary idea to even think about him until ss2 came into play. Also he was used to meassure how strong Dabura is, the strongest enemy at this point(Majin buu excluded). Later after Majin Vegeta fought buu Picoolo was impressed and assumed vegeta may suprassed kid ss2 gohan, but he was not certain.
It seems only goku(ss3), gohan(ultimate) and buu suprassed that level(I excluded fusion characters). Everyone else would shit at the idea of fighting that gohan.
Now by the end of Buu arc the strongest villain is buuhan and strongest hero is ss vegetto.

Bog arc - Buuhan is still considered as powerhouse along with ss vegetto until beerus came into play.Vegetto was used as example to meassure how strong Beerus is. Then goku made ritual and turned ssg. By this point vegetto was only suprassed by beerus, goku and whis(neutral let's say). Later on Vegeta joined in by achieving ssb, same with goku(getting back to god level back but even above, ssb >ssg).

It is hard to apply same logic to further arc of super, as beerus wouldn't be called villain, so rather use of golden frieeza in rof.

Rof: Golden Frieeza joind in the bunch of people who would treat vegitto as joke

u6: Hit, champa, Vados joined in

Black: for now, noone new.

In short:

Only a few characters suprass previous villain in the strongest form, or the strongest hero. He is still scary thought to try against anyone else.

[RandomGuy96]

That very obviously doesn't mean anything, as we know for a fact that Beerus could've smashed him like a bug at any time. Numerous times there's implied to be a huge gap between base and SS/SSG/SSB, and Beerus is over ten times as strong as SSG/SSB on top of that.

He might be able to beat Goku without effort but the fight showed there was a huge difference between Base Goku and Ultimate Gohan.

In the movie Beerus kicks Gohan in the stomach and he's beaten. A much more serious Beerus punches, elbows and kicks Goku and he still keeps fighting.

In the anime Beerus grabs Gohan, swings him into Buu and he's beaten. Goku however while in Base form destroys Beerus' blast, gets hit with unrestrained tail whip, gets hit with a unrestrained mouth blast and gets punched in the face and he stays conscious.

Base Goku doesn't compare to Beerus but he's far stronger than Gohan.

This would first require you to demonstrate that Beerus was using the same percentage of power (or higher) against Goku that he was against Gohan. Since we know for a fact that Beerus was using an utterly arbitrary level of power in all cases and could've one-shotted everyone.

[LowRyder2005]

@HeroR: Goku said he didn't think "fusing with Vegeta" would have been enough against Beerus. It's up to you if you want to take it as Fusion or Fusion and Potara in general (i.e. "could Vegeta be opposed to one or the other? We don't know"), and even factoring Vegito you'd have to factor in turn if it's just SS1 or his hypothetical SS2 and/or his hypothetical SS3 (can he reach it? Even though it makes sense we don't have any kind of empirical evidence to substantiate the claim). Herms wrote a very clear explanation.
It still makes sense to me that most simply interpret it as "Beerus > fully powered Vegito", but it's not what was expressly reported back there.

Minute: 20
Context: after Goku regains consciousness following his fight with Beerus
Goku: “This ain’t good. The only way to get stronger would be to merge with Vegeta…and even then, I don’t think I could win.”
Significance: Pretty much the same line originally appeared in the extended edition of BoG. The word for “merge” here is 合体/gattai, which in Japanese is used to refer to both Potara fusion and the Fusion dance. Though in Japanese the proper name for the Metamorean dance-style Fusion is simply the English word "Fusion" (フュージョン/Fuujon), this is treated as a proper noun and the process itself is referred to with Japanese words for fusing/merging such as 融合/yuugou and　合体/gattai. Goku even introduces the Fusion dance as a 合体技/gattai-waza, "merging technique", when the concept makes its debut in chapter 469. On the other hand, the process of fusing with the Potara is always described as 合体/gattai, and not with the English word "Fusion" or the Japanese 融合/yuugou.

[HeroR]

@HeroR: Goku said he didn't think "fusing with Vegeta" would have been enough against Beerus. It's up to you if you want to take it as Fusion or Fusion and Potara in genera, and even factoring Vegito you'd have to factor in turn SS1, SS2 and/or SS3 (can he reach it? We don't have any kind of empiric proof). Herms wrote a very clear explanation. Makes sense to me that most simply interpret it as "Beerus > fully powered Vegito", but it's not what was expressly reported back there.

Minute: 20
Context: after Goku regains consciousness following his fight with Beerus
Goku: “This ain’t good. The only way to get stronger would be to merge with Vegeta…and even then, I don’t think I could win.”
Significance: Pretty much the same line originally appeared in the extended edition of BoG. The word for “merge” here is 合体/gattai, which in Japanese is used to refer to both Potara fusion and the Fusion dance. Though in Japanese the proper name for the Metamorean dance-style Fusion is simply the English word "Fusion" (フュージョン/Fuujon), this is treated as a proper noun and the process itself is referred to with Japanese words for fusing/merging such as 融合/yuugou and　合体/gattai. Goku even introduces the Fusion dance as a 合体技/gattai-waza, "merging technique", when the concept makes its debut in chapter 469. On the other hand, the process of fusing with the Potara is always described as 合体/gattai, and not with the English word "Fusion" or the Japanese 融合/yuugou.

Beerus is stronger than fully powered Vegetto. That isn't what I said. I said how well Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto compared to Beerus as in would he give Beerus a somewhat decent match, or go down in three hits like everyone else. I didn't even mention or care what form of fusion they used. I just said that Vegetto is impossible to put into a conversation since no one seen his upper limits and Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto is one big What If.

[LowRyder2005]

I don't know if I'm missing some info pertaining to the context of your exchange with Bullza, but I read two or three posts above your "more specifically Goku said Vegetto couldn't beat Beerus". I was merely pointing out that Goku never mentioned Vegito anywhere, not that you can't infer that Goku was probably making a reference to Vegito.

[HeroR]

I don't know if I'm missing some info pertaining to the context of your exchange with Bullza, but I read two or three posts above your "more specifically Goku said Vegetto couldn't beat Beerus". I was merely pointing out that Goku never mentioned Vegito anywhere, not that you can't infer that Goku was probably making a reference to Vegito.

To me, Goku meant Vegetto because that is who he became after fusing with Vegeta. He wouldn't know who Gogeta is or how powerful he is since he never used the Fusion Dance. So why would Goku be thinking of using the Gogeta who is a complete unknown, vs Vegetto who he knows how powerful he is.

[LowRyder2005]

I don't see the issue. Goku could be factoring Gogeta just like he was factoring Gogeta back in Buu's body, when he was fairly sure of the outcome of the Fusion. Or like back when he was theorizing that a fusion of himself and Gohan would've been enough to defeat Gotenks-Buu, or how he was sure Gotenks would defeat Fat Buu with ease. I suppose Goku can calculate the outcome of a Metamoran Fusion without too much trouble because he happened to see a lot of them in the Otherworld.

If anything, a better question in this case would be "why wouldn't he/Vegeta or both want to use the Potara". Something that can still be answered only tentatively with some kind of wild guess, and that can't really be proven or proven wrong either (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probatio_diabolica). To summarize, people could neverthless freely come up with theories or PL lists that include only Gogeta in the and other than an argument for Occam's Razor it'd be really hard to elaborate a hard counter to their ideas.

[HeroR]

I don't see the issue. Goku could be factoring Gogeta just like he was factoring Gogeta back in Buu's body, when he was fairly sure of the outcome of the Fusion. Or like back when he was theorizing that a fusion of himself and Gohan would've been enough to defeat Gotenks-Buu, or how he was sure Gotenks would defeat Fat Buu with ease. I suppose Goku can calculate the outcome of a Metamoran Fusion without too much trouble because he happened to see a lot of them in the Otherworld.

If anything, a better question in this case would be "why wouldn't he/Vegeta or both want to use the Potara". Something that can still be answered only tentatively with some kind of wild guess, and that can't really be proven or proven wrong either (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Probatio_diabolica). To summarize, people could neverthless freely come up with theories or PL lists that include only Gogeta in the and other than an argument for Occam's Razor it'd be really hard to elaborate a hard counter to their ideas.

Gogeta is an unknown and Goku only suggested the Fusion Dance in the Buu Saga out of desperation. So I don't see why Goku would think of Gogeta when he was Vegetto and knew exactly how powerful he would be, especially since Goku never used the Fusion Dance himself.

In other words, he would know without guessing that Vegetto would stand no chance against Beerus. And Gogeta doesn't even technically exist since we're assuming that the Fusion Dance would create Gogeta based on a movie and GT.

[LowRyder2005]

Like I said, I disagree. You already have plenty of instances in the Buu Saga where Goku appears extremely sure of the outcome of "new Fused fighter A" vs. "enemy B", so you can't exactly picture him clueless.
Nor we have reason to believe he is not collected enough to judge the outcome of the Fusion because of desperation; if anything, given some of the circumstances, he'd usually desperate if Fusion was not enough.

[apex_pretador]

In-thread question:

Do you guys think (ignoring 2 Base theory) that Super Saiyan Goku could beat Final Form Freeza in RoF?

Interesting question.

In RoF, Freeza heavily implied that he won't need to turn golden even if goku turns super saiyan. So I think it'd be a close match.

[apex_pretador]

I wonder how big the gap between Base Goku and Beerus people consider it to be now.
From being less than a 2x gap to now more than a factor of 10? Maybe even hundreds, if not thousands, if you go by the old multipliers?

Easily above thousands.

The biggest problem with Vegetto is that we never saw his upper limit. Like, how would Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto fair against Beerus?

Well it's always been assumed that Super Saiyan 3 was taken into account when he said it stood no chance against Beerus.

When he became a Super Saiyan God, Goku said it was a power he didn't think even existed and he was only using about 80% of his power at that point and he should know how strong Vegito would be if he can say he couldn't beat Beerus.

From a story perspective Super Saiyan God should be much stronger than Vegito at his best, it would make no sense to write off one method as standing no chance against the villain and then have the rest of the story be about and introduce this new Super Saiyan God form which is what he uses in the final battle with said villain if it were just intended to be weaker.

So Super Saiyan God Goku > Super Saiyan 3 Vegito.

Base goku/vegeta ~ ultimate gohan buu arc(possibly buutenks)

But Ultimate Gohan was defeated by a suppressed Beerus just smacking him into Buu. Base Goku put up a decent fight against Beerus though.

The difference is made abundantly clear in the Battle of Gods movie that Base Goku is far above the likes of Ultimate Gohan.

Not true. He said he was just getting started (and he's a slow starter), he was not even close to 80% of his power at that point.

That very obviously doesn't mean anything, as we know for a fact that Beerus could've smashed him like a bug at any time. Numerous times there's implied to be a huge gap between base and SS/SSG/SSB, and Beerus is over ten times as strong as SSG/SSB on top of that.

He might be able to beat Goku without effort but the fight showed there was a huge difference between Base Goku and Ultimate Gohan.

In the movie Beerus kicks Gohan in the stomach and he's beaten. A much more serious Beerus punches, elbows and kicks Goku and he still keeps fighting.

In the anime Beerus grabs Gohan, swings him into Buu and he's beaten. Goku however while in Base form destroys Beerus' blast, gets hit with unrestrained tail whip, gets hit with a unrestrained mouth blast and gets punched in the face and he stays conscious.

Base Goku doesn't compare to Beerus but he's far stronger than Gohan.

He also fought beerus in monaka costume, forced him to power-up (from what I assume to be his BoG level) and was still yet to power-up himself.

Also, I would like to prove example with previous strongest villain or hero being considered as joke in next arc isn't true. I mean people use perfect cell example and states that he was joke in buu arc, but it isn't true. Let's see:

Namek arc - the strongest one is Frieeza as villain and ss goku as hero

Android arc - Frieeza was still used to meassure how strong androids are, still relevant to android 19 or 20. While namek arc ss goku could beat them as well if not for his issue with heart(virus). They were only suprassed by goku, vegeta, android 17,18,16, cell, future trunks, gohan and picoolo, but everyone else still was scared about idea of frieeza, still quite a lot of characters, right ? Now in the android arc the strongest villain was cell while the strongest hero was ss2 kid gohan.

Buu arc - Perfect Cell was scary idea to even think about him until ss2 came into play. Also he was used to meassure how strong Dabura is, the strongest enemy at this point(Majin buu excluded). Later after Majin Vegeta fought buu Picoolo was impressed and assumed vegeta may suprassed kid ss2 gohan, but he was not certain.
It seems only goku(ss3), gohan(ultimate) and buu suprassed that level(I excluded fusion characters). Everyone else would shit at the idea of fighting that gohan.
Now by the end of Buu arc the strongest villain is buuhan and strongest hero is ss vegetto.

Bog arc - Buuhan is still considered as powerhouse along with ss vegetto until beerus came into play.Vegetto was used as example to meassure how strong Beerus is. Then goku made ritual and turned ssg. By this point vegetto was only suprassed by beerus, goku and whis(neutral let's say). Later on Vegeta joined in by achieving ssb, same with goku(getting back to god level back but even above, ssb >ssg).

It is hard to apply same logic to further arc of super, as beerus wouldn't be called villain, so rather use of golden frieeza in rof.

Rof: Golden Frieeza joind in the bunch of people who would treat vegitto as joke

u6: Hit, champa, Vados joined in

Black: for now, noone new.

In short:

Only a few characters suprass previous villain in the strongest form, or the strongest hero. He is still scary thought to try against anyone else.

- First villain - Pilaf
- Second villain - Tao, MUCH stronger than pilaf.
- THird villain - Tien, MUCH stronger than Tao, even when holding back.
- Fourth villain - Piccolo Sr, MUCH stronger than Tien, in his old form, at less than 50%.
- Fifth villain - Piccolo Jr, MUCH stronger than full power piccolo sr, even when holding back
- Sixth villain - Raditz, MUCH stronger than Piccolo jr, powered up.
- Seventh villain - Nappa , MUCH stronger than Raditz
- Eighth villain - vegeta, MUCH stronger than Nappa in base form.
- Ninth villain - Freeza, MUCH stronger than Vegeta (transformed) in his first form, then transforms thrice, then powers up 4 times.
- Tenth villain - Cell, MUCH stronger than 100% freeza, probably even before absorptions.
- Eleventh villain - Buu, MUCH stronger than SUPER perfect cell, even at his weakest (fat buu post)
There does seem to be a pattern.

[Bullza]

This would first require you to demonstrate that Beerus was using the same percentage of power (or higher) against Goku that he was against Gohan. Since we know for a fact that Beerus was using an utterly arbitrary level of power in all cases and could've one-shotted everyone.

Well Beerus easily defeated Gohan, then when we fought Enraged Vegeta he had to increase his power to 10%, a level he said he hadn't had to use in a very long time. He then poked Vegeta in the head and knocked him out.

On Beerus' planet he hit Goku and Vegeta with attacks that were described twice as him not holding back. A direct mouth blast from Beerus where he wasn't holding back did not knock Goku or Vegeta out.

[ssbgoku]

I wonder how big the gap between Base Goku and Beerus people consider it to be now.
From being less than a 2x gap to now more than a factor of 10? Maybe even hundreds, if not thousands, if you go by the old multipliers?

Easily above thousands.

The biggest problem with Vegetto is that we never saw his upper limit. Like, how would Super Saiyan 3 Vegetto fair against Beerus?

Well it's always been assumed that Super Saiyan 3 was taken into account when he said it stood no chance against Beerus.

When he became a Super Saiyan God, Goku said it was a power he didn't think even existed and he was only using about 80% of his power at that point and he should know how strong Vegito would be if he can say he couldn't beat Beerus.

From a story perspective Super Saiyan God should be much stronger than Vegito at his best, it would make no sense to write off one method as standing no chance against the villain and then have the rest of the story be about and introduce this new Super Saiyan God form which is what he uses in the final battle with said villain if it were just intended to be weaker.

So Super Saiyan God Goku > Super Saiyan 3 Vegito.

Base goku/vegeta ~ ultimate gohan buu arc(possibly buutenks)

But Ultimate Gohan was defeated by a suppressed Beerus just smacking him into Buu. Base Goku put up a decent fight against Beerus though.

The difference is made abundantly clear in the Battle of Gods movie that Base Goku is far above the likes of Ultimate Gohan.

Not true. He said he was just getting started (and he's a slow starter), he was not even close to 80% of his power at that point.

That very obviously doesn't mean anything, as we know for a fact that Beerus could've smashed him like a bug at any time. Numerous times there's implied to be a huge gap between base and SS/SSG/SSB, and Beerus is over ten times as strong as SSG/SSB on top of that.

He might be able to beat Goku without effort but the fight showed there was a huge difference between Base Goku and Ultimate Gohan.

In the movie Beerus kicks Gohan in the stomach and he's beaten. A much more serious Beerus punches, elbows and kicks Goku and he still keeps fighting.

In the anime Beerus grabs Gohan, swings him into Buu and he's beaten. Goku however while in Base form destroys Beerus' blast, gets hit with unrestrained tail whip, gets hit with a unrestrained mouth blast and gets punched in the face and he stays conscious.

Base Goku doesn't compare to Beerus but he's far stronger than Gohan.

He also fought beerus in monaka costume, forced him to power-up (from what I assume to be his BoG level) and was still yet to power-up himself.

Also, I would like to prove example with previous strongest villain or hero being considered as joke in next arc isn't true. I mean people use perfect cell example and states that he was joke in buu arc, but it isn't true. Let's see:

Namek arc - the strongest one is Frieeza as villain and ss goku as hero

Android arc - Frieeza was still used to meassure how strong androids are, still relevant to android 19 or 20. While namek arc ss goku could beat them as well if not for his issue with heart(virus). They were only suprassed by goku, vegeta, android 17,18,16, cell, future trunks, gohan and picoolo, but everyone else still was scared about idea of frieeza, still quite a lot of characters, right ? Now in the android arc the strongest villain was cell while the strongest hero was ss2 kid gohan.

Buu arc - Perfect Cell was scary idea to even think about him until ss2 came into play. Also he was used to meassure how strong Dabura is, the strongest enemy at this point(Majin buu excluded). Later after Majin Vegeta fought buu Picoolo was impressed and assumed vegeta may suprassed kid ss2 gohan, but he was not certain.
It seems only goku(ss3), gohan(ultimate) and buu suprassed that level(I excluded fusion characters). Everyone else would shit at the idea of fighting that gohan.
Now by the end of Buu arc the strongest villain is buuhan and strongest hero is ss vegetto.

Bog arc - Buuhan is still considered as powerhouse along with ss vegetto until beerus came into play.Vegetto was used as example to meassure how strong Beerus is. Then goku made ritual and turned ssg. By this point vegetto was only suprassed by beerus, goku and whis(neutral let's say). Later on Vegeta joined in by achieving ssb, same with goku(getting back to god level back but even above, ssb >ssg).

It is hard to apply same logic to further arc of super, as beerus wouldn't be called villain, so rather use of golden frieeza in rof.

Rof: Golden Frieeza joind in the bunch of people who would treat vegitto as joke

u6: Hit, champa, Vados joined in

Black: for now, noone new.

In short:

Only a few characters suprass previous villain in the strongest form, or the strongest hero. He is still scary thought to try against anyone else.

- First villain - Pilaf
- Second villain - Tao, MUCH stronger than pilaf.
- THird villain - Tien, MUCH stronger than Tao, even when holding back.
- Fourth villain - Piccolo Sr, MUCH stronger than Tien, in his old form, at less than 50%.
- Fifth villain - Piccolo Jr, MUCH stronger than full power piccolo sr, even when holding back
- Sixth villain - Raditz, MUCH stronger than Piccolo jr, powered up.
- Seventh villain - Nappa , MUCH stronger than Raditz
- Eighth villain - vegeta, MUCH stronger than Nappa in base form.
- Ninth villain - Freeza, MUCH stronger than Vegeta (transformed) in his first form, then transforms thrice, then powers up 4 times.
- Tenth villain - Cell, MUCH stronger than 100% freeza, probably even before absorptions.
- Eleventh villain - Buu, MUCH stronger than SUPER perfect cell, even at his weakest (fat buu post)
There does seem to be a pattern.

Both patterns seems to be correct so idk, we can bo by either of them

[RandomGuy96]

This would first require you to demonstrate that Beerus was using the same percentage of power (or higher) against Goku that he was against Gohan. Since we know for a fact that Beerus was using an utterly arbitrary level of power in all cases and could've one-shotted everyone.

Well Beerus easily defeated Gohan, then when we fought Enraged Vegeta he had to increase his power to 10%, a level he said he hadn't had to use in a very long time. He then poked Vegeta in the head and knocked him out.

On Beerus' planet he hit Goku and Vegeta with attacks that were described twice as him not holding back. A direct mouth blast from Beerus where he wasn't holding back did not knock Goku or Vegeta out.

Then he was holding back. By a lot. Because we know for a fact that he's many, many times stronger than Goku and Vegeta even as SSBs, to say nothing of their base forms. If he wasn't holding back, they'd be dead.