He had a new ki signature because of the Elder Kaioshin. If Base Goku get's pissed I doubt his ki signature will take a drastic change and be unrecognizable.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Piccolo said that his ki had changed because of his personality.
Exactly. He powers up to Full power and is Ultimate Gohan. Base Gohan=Ultimate.No... you don't have to transform to draw extra power. Gohan can just draw extra power in his base.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I don't get your point of how he does, and yet doesn't have access to his full power. The only reason Gohan's looks a little different is because he doesn't get an aura. In the manga and movie 13 he has no aura. So there is no other way to signify he powered up.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:OK, let's just agree that we disagree. I'm tired of doing circles, and you don't seem to get my point.
Close enough that the fusion is plausible, but not enough to where he is considered Gohan's equal. In a sense, it's like Goku and Vegeta in Fusion Reborn. Goku is considered to be heads above Vegeta in terms of power at that point, but he was still able to fuse with him (most likely by balancing their levels). The same case would be applied here.DBZGTKOSDH wrote: You mean that base Trunks is close to Ultimate Gohan? And I guess you don't follow the Daizenshuu statement which states that the near-death power-ups because insignificant/non-existent after Freeza arc?
Then Trunks would be stronger than Gohan as he has SSJ on top of base and Trunks is basically stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.Malik_DBNA wrote:Close enough that the fusion is plausible, but not enough to where he is considered Gohan's equal. In a sense, it's like Goku and Vegeta in Fusion Reborn. Goku is considered to be heads above Vegeta in terms of power at that point, but he was still able to fuse with him (most likely by balancing their levels). The same case would be applied hereDBZGTKOSDH wrote: You mean that base Trunks is close to Ultimate Gohan? And I guess you don't follow the Daizenshuu statement which states that the near-death power-ups because insignificant/non-existent after Freeza arc?
I am operating under a formula for Zenkai
. Sorry but there is no way in hell Zenkai has a formula. Just a plot device It followed a pretty standard formula up until Goku's fight with the Ginyu Force. Vegeta, throughout the course of his stay on Namek, had his power level clearly displayed on a number of occassions. By using those numbers and calculating the % increase between each, Vegeta increased between 30-35% each time he was revived from near death. Goku, however, recieved a 33x increase from his injuries during the fight with Captain Ginyu up to the fight with Freeza (bouncing from 90,000 to 3,000,000), which is just wonky. Vegeta also had ridiculous Zenkai from his fight with Recoome and the mortal injury he got from Kuririn. It went from a pretty standard method to "however much *insert character* has to improve to be a threat, that's how much stronger he gets".TheGmGoken wrote:I am operating under a formula for Zenkai
I said "getting close", not "he is close/equal".Saiga wrote:Base Trunks being close to Ultimate Gohan? That's incredibly outlandish! After all, Ultimate Gohan is above the Boo arc Super Saiyan 3s, base Trunks shouldn't even be close to a Boo arc Super Saiyan 1 level.
I mean I know GT had ridiculous strength increases, but I thought that the events of GT were mostly changed so that it was more in line with the manga. In that case the power ups should not be that ridiculous.
Trunks at BEST should't even be 50% of Gohan. I really not liking the idea. It makes Goku speech pointless and stupid. All of that and he could have just said use the fusion! This is VERY similar to Gohan getting up that bulidup and only being useless once again. Not to mention Gohan and Trunks being the next Goku and Vegeta? Eww. How about Gohan and Trunks be GOHAN AND TRUNKS. I'm not a fan of someone being the "next" someone instead of their own thing. ThatSaiga wrote:Base Trunks being close to Ultimate Gohan? That's incredibly outlandish! After all, Ultimate Gohan is above the Boo arc Super Saiyan 3s, base Trunks shouldn't even be close to a Boo arc Super Saiyan 1 level.
I mean I know GT had ridiculous strength increases, but I thought that the events of GT were mostly changed so that it was more in line with the manga. In that case the power ups should not be that ridiculous.
Getting close is ridiculous. That means he surpassed SSJ3 Gotenks in base form. It's already ridiculous that Goku managed to get stronger than SSJ3 in base. I'm glad Kaboom wrote that out in GTR as it was silly. Trunks gain would actually be even more ridiculous than Goku's.Malik_DBNA wrote:I said "getting close", not "he is close/equal".
I'm not saying they're going to be just like Goku and Vegeta, like being rivals, and always trying to outdo each other. They're always going to be Gohan and Trunks. They're just following in their footsteps as Earth's strongest protectors, trying to live up to their standards. I had a few ideas on how to go about this.TheGmGoken wrote:Trunks at BEST should't even be 50% of Gohan. I really not liking the idea. It makes Goku speech pointless and stupid. All of that and he could have just said use the fusion! This is VERY similar to Gohan getting up that bulidup and only being useless once again. Not to mention Gohan and Trunks being the next Goku and Vegeta? Eww. How about Gohan and Trunks be GOHAN AND TRUNKS. I'm not a fan of someone being the "next" someone instead of their own thing. ThatSaiga wrote:Base Trunks being close to Ultimate Gohan? That's incredibly outlandish! After all, Ultimate Gohan is above the Boo arc Super Saiyan 3s, base Trunks shouldn't even be close to a Boo arc Super Saiyan 1 level.
I mean I know GT had ridiculous strength increases, but I thought that the events of GT were mostly changed so that it was more in line with the manga. In that case the power ups should not be that ridiculous.
s why I'm glad Gohan did not become a fighter in Boo Arc. Just saying IMHO the idea sucks.
That was written out of DBNA as well. They are way stronger than in GT just because of training, but not ridiculous strong like from GTdbzfan7 wrote:Getting close is ridiculous. That means he surpassed SSJ3 Gotenks in base form. It's already ridiculous that Goku managed to get stronger than SSJ3 in base. I'm glad Kaboom wrote that out in GTR as it was silly. Trunks gain would actually be even more ridiculous than Goku's.Malik_DBNA wrote:I said "getting close", not "he is close/equal".
I agree. Trunks would have to have gotten thousands of times stronger. He would have to surpass SSJ3 Gotenks in base and if Trunks was close to Ultimate Gohan that means he is stronger than SSJ3 Goku GT already.Saiga wrote:I do. I think that's absolutely insane, not just a stretch. That means Super Saiyan 2 Trunks would be 50 times stronger than Gohan.
So, there's a couple options here:Saiga wrote:I do. I think that's absolutely insane, not just a stretch. That means Super Saiyan 2 Trunks would be 50 times stronger than Gohan.
You are right on the % difference. If (just hypothetical numbers) Gohan had a PL of 800 Billion in his base and Trunks had a PL of 200 Million, the difference is around 99%. Meaning with the 400x boost of SSJ3, Trunks would get up to about 80 Billion.Saiga wrote:As said before, base Trunks shouldn't even be 1% of Gohan. So the first option is really the only way, unless he can turn into a Super Saiyan 3 and fuse with Gohan that way. But he'd have to be a damn strong Super Saiyan 3 for even that to be plausible.
To put it more simple (finally I hope I found a waydbzfan7 wrote:I don't get your point of how he does, and yet doesn't have access to his full power. The only reason Gohan's looks a little different is because he doesn't get an aura. In the manga and movie 13 he has no aura. So there is no other way to signify he powered up.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:OK, let's just agree that we disagree. I'm tired of doing circles, and you don't seem to get my point.
), Ultimate is base, but base is not Ultimate... got my point now?But Goku & Vegeta were equals in M12, since Babidi drew out Vegeta's dormant powers. But even if you believe that Vegeta lost the power-up, Goku is less than twice stronger than Vegeta, while Ultimate Gohan is literally thousands of times stronger than base Trunks. Having Trunks close to Gohan makes as much sense as GT base Goku being at least as strong as Z SS3 Goku.Malik_DBNA wrote:Close enough that the fusion is plausible, but not enough to where he is considered Gohan's equal. In a sense, it's like Goku and Vegeta in Fusion Reborn. Goku is considered to be heads above Vegeta in terms of power at that point, but he was still able to fuse with him (most likely by balancing their levels). The same case would be applied here.
Only that one can work IMO.Malik_DBNA wrote:So, there's a couple options here:
1) Trunks gets his potential unlocked as well, making his base closer to Gohan.
2) Gohan can lower his chi to match Trunks (who could be maybe 25%-30% as strong, not 50%), allowing some leeway in the fusion dance's rules regarding power levels
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
I understand your point, but it makes no sense to me. I don't see base Gohan hitting some kind of wall while powering up in base. When I think state I think Avatar which he only got more powerful because he had the knowledge of all other Avatars so it makes sense his state makes him stronger. Gohan however has his pool of power unlocked. This state sounds like he had a transformation unlocked instead.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:To put it more simple (finally I hope I found a way
He didn't really seem to have any hidden powers, but like Goku be able to get good gains from training. I can possibly see Trunks maybe being close if he had his potential unlocked like Gohan did.Malik_DBNA wrote: You are right on the % difference. If (just hypothetical numbers) Gohan had a PL of 800 Billion in his base and Trunks had a PL of 200 Million, the difference is around 99%. Meaning with the 400x boost of SSJ3, Trunks would get up to about 80 Billion.
Does anyone think it's too far out of the realm of possibility for Trunks to have his powers unlocked?
