Dragon Ball Super Strength Discussion Thread

[HeroR]

But in the anime it still seems to suggest that Super Saiyan = Super Saiyan God like the movie but unlike the manga.

So Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta should be stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.

I'm not sure if then Super Saiyan 2 is still as strong as that and Super Saiyan 3 four times as strong as that. Meaning SSJ3 Goku would be about 4 times (or more as he's trained) stronger than Super Saiyan God.

I don't see why it matters at this point if base form Goku in Battle of Gods Saga equals Super Saiyan God given that over four years past for Goku and Vegeta. Meaning that their new base forms can easily be stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods.

And, not related to the above quote, it's pointless to compare Vegetto to anyone since we don't know Vegetto's upper limit so anything about him is assumption, especially since Vegetto get wank a lot here. The only thing we know for sure about Goku and Vegeta's base forms are that they are stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, meaning they're stronger than Super Buu in their base forms.

[Bullza]

I dunno it just seems pretty farfetched to me that they could have grown 50x as powerful with 4 years of training especially when Vegeta said they couldn't really improve all that much.

If their Base forms are as strong as Super Saiyan God but the multipliers are still the same as the newest episode suggests then it would mean that the current Super Saiyan Goku is 50x stronger than Super Saiyan God which is again farfetched to me.

Super Saiyan Blue is even more powerful than that and then with Kaioken x10 he'd be well over 500 times stronger than Super Saiyan God? But he's still weaker than Beerus.

I can't see Super Saiyan God Goku being less than 1/500th of the strenght of Beerus' power.

[ssbgoku]

^edit- where do you put Piccolo?

Picoolo could be below base goku/vegeta and since they seem to power up a bit in copy arc , then u6 them being ultimate gohan or a little bit. Picoolo is could be ss3 gotenks... or above ss2 gotenks which is ridiculous .

Idk shouldn't base Goku be above SSJ3 Gotenks? If multipliers are still in tact which the last episode implies Final frost should be at least a few dozen times stronger than that. Let's assume Final Frost I half as powerful as SSJ Goku (>SSJ3 Gotenks X 50) Which even with a 50% half power Frost would be at least 10x stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks.

SSJ Goku 50xSSJ3 Gotenks
Final Frost 25xSSJ3 Gotenks
Weak Frost 12x SSJ3 Gotenks
Piccolo 5x SSJ3 Goku/Gotenks and 10x Stronger than Vegetto??????

This scaling if left in a vacuum seems reasonable to me with the exception of how it correlates to both the stories before and after it.

Well both vegeta/goku should but only copy water arc... and we got clue/hint that vegeta got even stronger since u6 which same could apply to goku if they keep training to keep up with each other. Final Form Frost is less or more ultimate gohan level to me... or close to it. Also Frost can not only 5 times weaker then goku as goku was heavily supressed against frost while using ss also there was no effort from goku and he effortesly keep beating him in short time. This means Frost was at least 10x weaker the ss goku, so only 5 x ss3 gotenks at the most.

SSJ Goku 50xSSJ3 Gotenks
Final Frost 5xSSJ3 Gotenks
Weak Frost SSJ3 Gotenks
Piccolo 5x SSJ3 Goku/Gotenks and 10x Stronger than Vegetto??????

ssbgoku, your scalations are too far-fetched IHMO.

Can you eloborate about your reasons ?. I mean Do you reffer to whole comparision or just some points don't mean correct in your opinion ?

I don't see why it matters at this point if base form Goku in Battle of Gods Saga equals Super Saiyan God given that over four years past for Goku and Vegeta. Meaning that their new base forms can easily be stronger than Super Saiyan God Goku from Battle of Gods.

And, not related to the above quote, it's pointless to compare Vegetto to anyone since we don't know Vegetto's upper limit so anything about him is assumption, especially since Vegetto get wank a lot here. The only thing we know for sure about Goku and Vegeta's base forms are that they are stronger than Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks, meaning they're stronger than Super Buu in their base forms.

Completly disagree as whis was mocking both goku and vegeta in base while comparing to beerus(tree castle comparison, remember ?). Goku also right away denied possibility of them clashing with beerus after training with whis and before rosat. so Base being > ssg is ridiculous, hell even base ==ssg doesn't make sense with whis's comment. Also SS still isn't on par with ssg as I keep it multiplier transformation as everything else, however current ss goku may be close to ssg goku from beerus battle, but even then it seems farfetched. The latest episode implies that current ss2 goku could be near ssg goku who fought with beerus so possibly current ss3 goku being on par or suprassing ssg goku back then.

About vegetto, well I only tried to put him in scale to see how he compares... but it seems hard to do.

But in the anime it still seems to suggest that Super Saiyan = Super Saiyan God like the movie but unlike the manga.

So Super Saiyan Goku and Vegeta should be stronger than SSJ3 Vegito.

I'm not sure if then Super Saiyan 2 is still as strong as that and Super Saiyan 3 four times as strong as that. Meaning SSJ3 Goku would be about 4 times (or more as he's trained) stronger than Super Saiyan God.

Actually the latest episode implies completly otherwise, I mean current ss2 goku was talked by beerus as being close to ssg goku back then..., even son goku was comparing his battle with zamasu with the one against beerus but I would rather see ss3 goku as of current one matching ssg back then, which still makes current ssg goku 140 times stronger then one back then

[buutenks]

I believe that base Goku, ssj1-3 are not even close to ssg Goku. And only ssj blue is at that level.

This is also backed up when Vegeta says that the power Goku showed to Trunks was nowhere near his true power(aka ssj blue).

[Bullza]

Actually the latest episode implies completly otherwise, I mean current ss2 goku was talked by beerus as being close to ssg goku back then

Unless that happened outside of the Goku vs Zamasu fight then I don't see anything like that in the sub I saw.

What I did see though was Gowasu commenting on Goku having power that rivals the God of Destruction which certainly doesn't suggest he'd be far off from Super Saiyan God or anything.

[ssbgoku]

I believe that base Goku, ssj1-3 are not even close to ssg Goku. And only ssj blue is at that level.

This is also backed up when Vegeta says that the power Goku showed to Trunks was nowhere near his true power(aka ssj blue).

sounds right to me, but remember ssg may be multuplier not set power level. However even then if we are going by my deduced 140 x multiplier over ss3, I don't see base goku getting even 10x stronger then he was in bog...

Actually the latest episode implies completly otherwise, I mean current ss2 goku was talked by beerus as being close to ssg goku back then

Unless that happened outside of the Goku vs Zamasu fight then I don't see anything like that in the sub I saw.

What I did see though was Gowasu commenting on Goku having power that rivals the God of Destruction which certainly doesn't suggest he'd be far off from Super Saiyan God or anything.

Well that the line I meant. However notice that goku was using ss2 not ss, of course neither beerus or whis would need to say it and Akira making ss2 and ss3 just powered up version of ss making it on purpouse so people stop using ss2 or ss3 terms but rather everything takes under ss, sound stupid to me but that maybe reason goku didn't correct him.

For now I will go by:

current ss2 goku ~ ssg goku
base goku ~ 1/100th ssg goku

[Bullza]

Well I'd think if SSJ2 Goku was compared to a God of Destruction then it's possible that SSJ Goku could be comparable to the weaker Super Saiyan God.

There's still a lot of confusion on where things stand, we didn't think we'd be seeing Super Saiyan again but that being reintroduced and then SSJ2 and SSJ3 did make things more complicated. At least now we know that the multipliers look to still be in place.

Also the two base theory idea that the ordinary Super Saiyan doesn't have God Ki because that would be Super Saiyan Blue meaning that Super Saiyan is just at regular levels is also proven to not be true when this episode has someone compare the ordinary Super Saiyan/2 to a God of Destruction.

So yeah Super Saiyan/2 Goku was compared to a God of Destruction and Frost (somewhat), Magetta, Cabba and Black were all comparable to that so that's that.

All I'd really like to know is how Super Saiyan Blue compares to Super Saiyan God. Maybe it's 50x stronger?

[Chiki]

Actually the latest episode implies completly otherwise, I mean current ss2 goku was talked by beerus as being close to ssg goku back then

That's not what is said. He just says that Goku was able to fight against him, which he was. Nothing is said about Goku's current power level being compared to SSG Goku.

Also when Gomasu said Goku is on the level of Beerus as an SS2, that was complete bullshit, two base theory or one base theory, since we know not even SSB Goku which is >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SS2 is on the level of Beerus. Beerus was right to get angry at him for making such a stupid statement lol.

[Noah]

ssbgoku, your scalations are too far-fetched IHMO.

Can you eloborate about your reasons ? I mean Do you reffer to whole comparision or just some points don't mean correct in your opinion?

Sure. Well, probably something with me accepting this whole mess, I mean is plausible that Base post God Saiyans are above SSJ3 Gotenks, but now because SSJ2 Mirai Trunks was somewhat evenly matched wih SSJ2 Goku, it means that he's also above Gotenks and God-tier? It's the same thing with Piccolo in U6 Arc, ludicrous, there's no way they could power jump that much!

I still see things like this:

Super Vegetto = 20% Beerus
SSJ2 Vegetto = 40% Beerus
SSJ3 Vegetto = 60% Beerus
SSJ God Goku = 70% Beerus

After training with God ki with Whis and in the RoSaT, both Goku and Vegeta learned to manipulate their Ki anyway they want, that's why in a time they're super stronger in Base and in the other not much, I know two base theory was never something confirmed in anywhere, but it really helps the plot with all that bad writting.

[Super Saiyan Turlast x4]

Completly disagree as whis was mocking both goku and vegeta in base while comparing to beerus(tree castle comparison, remember ?). Goku also right away denied possibility of them clashing with beerus after training with whis and before rosat. so Base being > ssg is ridiculous, hell even base ==ssg doesn't make sense with whis's comment.

Whis' comment isn't an issue when you realize Beers is already far more powerful than a Super Saiyan God. Not that I agree with Base=Super Saiyan God, but the Whis comparison could still apply even if that were true. Since we already know Beers is above a far more powerful Kaio-Ken x10 Super Saiyan Blue Goku, Super Saiyan God itself wouldn't be much different than the tree in the comparison.

[ssbgoku]

Completly disagree as whis was mocking both goku and vegeta in base while comparing to beerus(tree castle comparison, remember ?). Goku also right away denied possibility of them clashing with beerus after training with whis and before rosat. so Base being > ssg is ridiculous, hell even base ==ssg doesn't make sense with whis's comment.

Whis' comment isn't an issue when you realize Beers is already far more powerful than a Super Saiyan God. Not that I agree with Base=Super Saiyan God, but the Whis comparison could still apply even if that were true. Since we already know Beers is above a far more powerful Kaio-Ken x10 Super Saiyan Blue Goku, Super Saiyan God itself wouldn't be much different than the tree in the comparison.

You are right, expect I pretend that hit anime battle was filler, especially kaiokenx10 ssb stuff , which just break completly the scale of god power level which Akira made up. I definietly see Akira going by manga version as cannon/more correct due to reintroducing ssg which can only help in merchandise and increaseing selling of toys, cards etc. with ssg being one character extra while kaioken x10 stacked with ssb could be hard to to differ from ssb. After all Akira will go the simplest and straightforward way which is ssg, it is just same concept as ss2 and ss3 was supposed to be forgotten and not used ever again and yet we see them in use(ss2 especially), why ?, because they will increase sale and incomes, simple as that. Maybe Akira hinted use of red aura and use of something which happened already by Toei just read it in wrong way bringing back kaioken instead of ssg.

Also bullshit argument of goku absorbing ssg power and meaning that he is as strong as ssg in base was never true, but assumption as goku smply got access to god power, which resulted as ssb(vegeta as always used shortcute by deux ex machina aka whis's training), and that it. Kaio-sama comment's about goku becoming god again after truning ssb clearly proves that.

[HeroR]

I dunno it just seems pretty farfetched to me that they could have grown 50x as powerful with 4 years of training especially when Vegeta said they couldn't really improve all that much.

If their Base forms are as strong as Super Saiyan God but the multipliers are still the same as the newest episode suggests then it would mean that the current Super Saiyan Goku is 50x stronger than Super Saiyan God which is again farfetched to me.

Super Saiyan Blue is even more powerful than that and then with Kaioken x10 he'd be well over 500 times stronger than Super Saiyan God? But he's still weaker than Beerus.

I can't see Super Saiyan God Goku being less than 1/500th of the strenght of Beerus' power.

That was during the three years in the Hypobolic Time Chamber he made that quote and Vegeta easily became 50x stronger after training with Whis. I also don't think the margin between Super Saiyan God and Goku's base is 50x since Goku still gave Beerus a fight and took hits. In the movie, Goku didn't even notice he turned back to his base form.

I believe that base Goku, ssj1-3 are not even close to ssg Goku. And only ssj blue is at that level.

This is also backed up when Vegeta says that the power Goku showed to Trunks was nowhere near his true power(aka ssj blue).

That can easily be explained that Super Saiyan God Super Saiyan is a big jump from Super Saiyan 3. Also, Beerus confirmed that Goku absorbed godhood and didn't suffer a major power decrease. So Goku's base and Super Saiyan forms are Super Saiyan God power.

[Chiki]

I forgot to add, the only reason Gomasu says that SS2 Goku is on Beerus's level is because Beerus told him earlier that Goku fought and survived against him. That's it. Gomasu has no knowledge of Beerus and Goku's full powers and therefore is wrong.

[Bullza]

That was during the three years in the Hypobolic Time Chamber he made that quote and Vegeta easily became 50x stronger after training with Whis. I also don't think the margin between Super Saiyan God and Goku's base is 50x since Goku still gave Beerus a fight and took hits. In the movie, Goku didn't even notice he turned back to his base form.

Vegeta did but he was at a much lower level to start with. If during the BoG arc SSJ Goku was equal to SSJG and now his Base were equal to SSJG as of the RoF then that'd mean that Goku would have got 50x stronger.

That to me is farfetched when he only trained for a few months. He doesn't have to be 1/50th of SSJG though. He'd be 1/50th the strenght of SSJ which at this point should be much stronger than the SSJ who fought Beerus.

I forgot to add, the only reason Gomasu says that SS2 Goku is on Beerus's level is because Beerus told him earlier that Goku fought and survived against him.

He didn't say he was on Beerus' level. He said he had power which rivals the God of Destruction which could have been Universe 10's God of Destruction.

Being as how SSJ Goku was a match for a God of Destruction then there's nothing wrong with current SSJ2 Goku rivalling that power.

[TheMikado]

Ok so I'm really not following this conversation at all.

Maybe someone could help me by filling in blanks that make sense and I can extrapolate from there.

BoG
Goku SSG =
Goku SSJ =
Making Goku's base = 1/50th SSG?

RoF
Goku base = ?
Goku SSB = ? ( I would assume more than x400 on new base)

Champa
In theory Goku is above SSJ3 Goku/Gotenks in base. If that multiplier is say x400 that would mean Goku/Vegeta's base is like x500 stronger than BoG SSJ3 Goku previously.
On top of that SSJ stacks at the same multiplier so a theoritical SSJ Goku now is 25,000x stronger than his base form in BoG before Beerus.

May question becomes where did Piccolo stand compared to Base Goku in BoGs. The reason I ask is because the multiplier will help determine if it's an insane power up or not. For example let's say the two base theory is true:

If piccolo is stronger than base Goku but weaker than SSJ at around half as powerful we could put Piccolo at Base Goku X 25. If Piccolo trained in a few days in the woods and got to x35 of base Goku that still is crazy but reasonable.

Now if we wanted to keep that same ratio of approximate strength Piccolo would need to get about 12,500x stronger or an increase of 125,000% just to get half as strong as current SSJ Goku. Future Trunks would also need a similar increase of 5000% if we assume base Future Trunks when he went into the time machine and Gokus base when he was in BoGs were the same. Basically what I'm hearing is that if BoGs never happened Trunks would have came back in his time machine and been x500 stronger than Goku/Vegeta in his base for probably to the point where he could easily take a base Vegetto all without old Kai or God Ki?

[Bullza]

The way I see it at the moment.

Battle of Gods arc

SSJG Goku is stronger than a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito

SSJ Goku after having absorbed the power is as strong as SSJG Goku

Base Goku is 1/50th as strong as SSJ Goku and the multipliers still stand.

Base Goku is stronger than Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta, considerably so. He's possibly Buuhan ~ Super Vegito level.

Resurrection F arc

Vegeta reaches Goku's level in six months. The two then train for several more months and become a lot more powerful.

Final Form Frieza is again around that same Buuhan ~ Super Vegito level.

SSJB is their highest level. It is a higher level than SSJ3 to an unknown extent. If the multipliers are still in place then it should look something like this for example

SSJ/G (BoG arc) - 1
SSJ (RoF arc) - 2
SSJ2 - 4
SSJ3 - 16
SSJB - 16+

Universe 6 arc

Goku and Vegeta are not that much stronger even with the three years in the ROSAT.

Final Form Frost is a level or two below SSJ Goku and Magetta and SSJ Cabba are on a similiar level to SSJ Goku.

Piccolo is comparable to Tagoma. He only does well against Frost due to fighting defensively, strategically and Frost being tired.

Base Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks which is consistent with him being stronger than Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta.

Black arc

Black in the future is slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

SSJ2 Trunks is not as strong as SSJ2 Goku but is strong enough to push him back which SSJ3 Gotenks could not do to Base Vegeta making Trunks stronger than Gotenks.

Goku had to use SSJ2 against Zamasu and won without too much difficulty meaning that Zamasu is probably SSJ Goku level.

Most of these characters Frost, Magetta, Cabba, Black, Zamasu, Trunks and the obvious are as strong if not stronger than SSJG, a level which is no longer anything that special going by the anime.

[buutenks]

The way I see it at the moment.

Battle of Gods arc

SSJG Goku is stronger than a hypothetical SSJ3 Vegito

SSJ Goku after having absorbed the power is as strong as SSJG Goku

Base Goku is 1/50th as strong as SSJ Goku and the multipliers still stand.

Base Goku is stronger than Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta, considerably so. He's possibly Buuhan ~ Super Vegito level.

Resurrection F arc

Vegeta reaches Goku's level in six months. The two then train for several more months and become a lot more powerful.

Final Form Frieza is again around that same Buuhan ~ Super Vegito level.

SSJB is their highest level. It is a higher level than SSJ3 to an unknown extent. If the multipliers are still in place then it should look something like this for example

SSJ/G (BoG arc) - 1
SSJ (RoF arc) - 2
SSJ2 - 4
SSJ3 - 16
SSJB - 16+

Universe 6 arc

Goku and Vegeta are not that much stronger even with the three years in the ROSAT.

Final Form Frost is a level or two below SSJ Goku and Magetta and SSJ Cabba are on a similiar level to SSJ Goku.

Piccolo is comparable to Tagoma. He only does well against Frost due to fighting defensively, strategically and Frost being tired.

Base Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Gotenks which is consistent with him being stronger than Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta.

Black arc

Black in the future is slightly stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

SSJ2 Trunks is not as strong as SSJ2 Goku but is strong enough to push him back which SSJ3 Gotenks could not do to Base Vegeta making Trunks stronger than Gotenks.

Goku had to use SSJ2 against Zamasu and won without too much difficulty meaning that Zamasu is probably SSJ Goku level.

Most of these characters Frost, Magetta, Cabba, Black, Zamasu, Trunks and the obvious are as strong if not stronger than SSJG, a level which is no longer anything that special going by the anime.

Could be, after all, every new saga the new characters tend to be stronger than previous power ups.

[ssbgoku]

Ok so I'm really not following this conversation at all.

Maybe someone could help me by filling in blanks that make sense and I can extrapolate from there.

BoG
Goku SSG =
Goku SSJ =
Making Goku's base = 1/50th SSG?

RoF
Goku base = ?
Goku SSB = ? ( I would assume more than x400 on new base)

Champa
In theory Goku is above SSJ3 Goku/Gotenks in base. If that multiplier is say x400 that would mean Goku/Vegeta's base is like x500 stronger than BoG SSJ3 Goku previously.
On top of that SSJ stacks at the same multiplier so a theoritical SSJ Goku now is 25,000x stronger than his base form in BoG before Beerus.

May question becomes where did Piccolo stand compared to Base Goku in BoGs. The reason I ask is because the multiplier will help determine if it's an insane power up or not. For example let's say the two base theory is true:

If piccolo is stronger than base Goku but weaker than SSJ at around half as powerful we could put Piccolo at Base Goku X 25. If Piccolo trained in a few days in the woods and got to x35 of base Goku that still is crazy but reasonable.

Now if we wanted to keep that same ratio of approximate strength Piccolo would need to get about 12,500x stronger or an increase of 125,000% just to get half as strong as current SSJ Goku. Future Trunks would also need a similar increase of 5000% if we assume base Future Trunks when he went into the time machine and Gokus base when he was in BoGs were the same. Basically what I'm hearing is that if BoGs never happened Trunks would have came back in his time machine and been x500 stronger than Goku/Vegeta in his base for probably to the point where he could easily take a base Vegetto all without old Kai or God Ki?

It is actually pretty simple if you decide to go and accept only manga as rightfull source and cannon material. I mean I am still ok and happy to get some padding from anime, however only when it doesn't contradict what manga has shown, so:

Battle of gods movie:
ssg goku
base goku with ssg essence
enraged vegeta
ultimate gohan ~ ss3 goku
ss3 gotenks
base goku

Base goku is much infferior to ssg. I accept dbs anime adding goku testing all ss powers against beerus. I exlude base gotenks attacking beerus in anime as in manga gotenks was ss3, which makes much more sense. I am going with movie gohan who was drunk but still looked like ultimate gohan. No universeal schockwaves

Ressurection of frieeza movie:

golden frieeza
ssb goku ~ ssb vegeta
base goku ~ base vegeta ~ bog ss3 goku
everyone else

Basically manga have shown us base goku and vegeta having long way to be even challenge for beerus. Only after they release blue ki/sparks hiting ssb then whis commented that both of them teaming up/working together might beat beerus, which shows 6-10-15 scale is still intact. With gohan we can easily go by dbs as nohing relevant from manga is contradicted, same with picoolo. However whis also notes how much goku and vegeta have improved, commenting which proves that they could be around ss3 goku level in base.

u6 manga:

ssb goku/vegeta
ssg goku ~ hit
ss goku/vegeta - above ss2 vegetto from buu arc
magenta
ss cabba ~ final form frost ~ buuhan
base goku/vegeta ~ enraged vegeta/buutenks
third form frost
first form frost
base cabba
botamo

black arc manga:

ss2 goku/vegeta - 3/4 th of ss3 vegetto from buu arc
goku black - 1/2 th of ss3 vegetto from buu arc
Zamasu
ss goku/vegeta
base goku/vegeta ~ buuhan

Well, that it ;p. Anime is just buch of messed up stuff so it is virtually impossible to make sense with all power scale. Especially kaiokenx10 ssb, base gotenks not turning ss3, base goku punching beerus's ball then later being much weaker etc.

as of current in manga:

whis - 15
beerus - 10
ssb goku/vegeta - 8
ssg goku - 6.5

[buutenks]

Ok so I'm really not following this conversation at all.

Maybe someone could help me by filling in blanks that make sense and I can extrapolate from there.

BoG
Goku SSG =
Goku SSJ =
Making Goku's base = 1/50th SSG?

RoF
Goku base = ?
Goku SSB = ? ( I would assume more than x400 on new base)

Champa
In theory Goku is above SSJ3 Goku/Gotenks in base. If that multiplier is say x400 that would mean Goku/Vegeta's base is like x500 stronger than BoG SSJ3 Goku previously.
On top of that SSJ stacks at the same multiplier so a theoritical SSJ Goku now is 25,000x stronger than his base form in BoG before Beerus.

May question becomes where did Piccolo stand compared to Base Goku in BoGs. The reason I ask is because the multiplier will help determine if it's an insane power up or not. For example let's say the two base theory is true:

If piccolo is stronger than base Goku but weaker than SSJ at around half as powerful we could put Piccolo at Base Goku X 25. If Piccolo trained in a few days in the woods and got to x35 of base Goku that still is crazy but reasonable.

Now if we wanted to keep that same ratio of approximate strength Piccolo would need to get about 12,500x stronger or an increase of 125,000% just to get half as strong as current SSJ Goku. Future Trunks would also need a similar increase of 5000% if we assume base Future Trunks when he went into the time machine and Gokus base when he was in BoGs were the same. Basically what I'm hearing is that if BoGs never happened Trunks would have came back in his time machine and been x500 stronger than Goku/Vegeta in his base for probably to the point where he could easily take a base Vegetto all without old Kai or God Ki?

It is actually pretty simple if you decide to go and accept only manga as rightfull source and cannon material. I mean I am still ok and happy to get some padding from anime, however only when it doesn't contradict what manga has shown, so:

Battle of gods movie:
ssg goku
base goku with ssg essence
enraged vegeta
ultimate gohan ~ ss3 goku
ss3 gotenks
base goku

Base goku is much infferior to ssg. I accept dbs anime adding goku testing all ss powers against beerus. I exlude base gotenks attacking beerus in anime as in manga gotenks was ss3, which makes much more sense. I am going with movie gohan who was drunk but still looked like ultimate gohan. No universeal schockwaves

Ressurection of frieeza movie:

golden frieeza
ssb goku ~ ssb vegeta
base goku ~ base vegeta ~ bog ss3 goku
everyone else

Basically manga have shown us base goku and vegeta having long way to be even challenge for beerus. Only after they release blue ki/sparks hiting ssb then whis commented that both of them teaming up/working together might beat beerus, which shows 6-10-15 scale is still intact. With gohan we can easily go by dbs as nohing relevant from manga is contradicted, same with picoolo. However whis also notes how much goku and vegeta have improved, commenting which proves that they could be around ss3 goku level in base.

u6 manga:

ssb goku/vegeta
ssg goku ~ hit
ss goku/vegeta - above ss2 vegetto from buu arc
magenta
ss cabba ~ final form frost ~ buuhan
base goku/vegeta ~ enraged vegeta/buutenks
third form frost
first form frost
base cabba
botamo

black arc manga:

ss2 goku/vegeta - 3/4 th of ss3 vegetto from buu arc
goku black - 1/2 th of ss3 vegetto from buu arc
Zamasu
ss goku/vegeta
base goku/vegeta ~ buuhan

Well, that it ;p. Anime is just buch of messed up stuff so it is virtually impossible to make sense with all power scale. Especially kaiokenx10 ssb, base gotenks not turning ss3, base goku punching beerus's ball then later being much weaker etc.

as of current in manga:

whis - 15
beerus - 10
ssb goku/vegeta - 8
ssg goku - 6.5

But isnt that how it is with the anime also? Only thing different is Beerus is much stronger and so is Hit and Whis.

Basically

Current Manga:

Whis -15
Beerus -10
ssjb/Golden Freeza-8
Hit-7
ssg-6

Current Anime:
Whis 150
Beerus 100
ssjb/golden freeza-8
Hit-70
ssg-6

[Bullza]

Without putting any numbers to anything, this is how I see the characters as ranking from strongest to weakest thus far.

Zeno

Vados
Whis

Beerus
Champa

Hit
Super Saiyan Blue Goku Kaioken x 10

Super Saiyan Blue Goku
Super Saiyan Blue Vegeta
Golden Frieza

Black
Super Saiyan 3 Goku

Super Saiyan 2 Goku
Super Saiyan 2 Trunks
Zamasu

Super Saiyan Goku
Super Saiyan Vegeta
Super Saiyan Cabba
Super Saiyan Trunks
Magetta
Super Saiyan God Goku
Final Form Frost

Goku
Vegeta
Cabba
Trunks
Final Form Frieza

Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta
Ultimate Gohan
Super Saiyan 3 Gotenks
First Form Frieza

Super Saiyan Gohan
Mr Buu
Super Saiyan Kid Trunks

Gohan
Piccolo
Tagoma