The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Vegeta and Trunks were using their Grade 2 forms out of desperation, and that's why Vegeta was so close to Goku.

What makes Vegeta close to Goku?

[Kamiccolo9]

Vegeta and Trunks were using their Grade 2 forms out of desperation, and that's why Vegeta was so close to Goku.

What makes Vegeta close to Goku?

I dunno. People keeps claiming he is, so I was just offering a possible explanation.

[PerfectFreeza]

Or Goku could be significantly weaker.

[RandomGuy96]

Movie 8 Broly seems like the counterpart to Initial Perfect Cell if anything. That, and the use of Grade II and the release date of this movie heavily point to Vegeta and Trunks being closer to the levels Initial Cell cushed them at than their Cell Games levels. It's very likely if not almost certain that the Cell that Goku fought can kick Broly's ass. Heck, Movie 8 Broly can be weaker than a Cell Junior, and everything would still make perfect sense. But considering the statement that SS Broly in Movie 10 is equal to Movie 8 LSS Broly, Cell Games Goku level probably makes the most sense.

[Kamiccolo9]

Movie 8 Broly seems like the counterpart to Initial Perfect Cell if anything. That, and the use of Grade II and the release date of this movie heavily point to Vegeta and Trunks being closer to the levels Initial Cell cushed them at than their Cell Games levels. It's very likely if not almost certain that the Cell that Goku fought can kick Broly's ass. Heck, Movie 8 Broly can be weaker than a Cell Junior, and everything would still make perfect sense.

That's possible, but I go by what we have in-universe, without using release dates. In-universe, at the time the movie is supposed to take place, Goku would be as strong as he was against Cell, and there's no reason to assume that he didn't go all out against Broly. I see where you're getting at, but I hope you see what I'm trying to say.

[PerfectFreeza]

In universe though, Gohan would be stronger.Yet he is clearly not.Goku would also tell Gohan to awaken his SSJ2 and beat Broly, instead of telling him to go away.And how do you explain Piccolo?
Vegeta also says, that Goku came all the way, just to have himself get killed by himself.
RandomGuy96, M10 SSJ Broly is implied to be actually stronger than M8 LSSJ Broly.But yes, that makes most sense.

[Kamiccolo9]

In universe though, Gohan would be stronger.Yet he is clearly not.Goku would also tell Gohan to awaken his SSJ2 and beat Broly, instead of telling him to go away.And how do you explain Piccolo?
Vegeta also says, that Goku came all the way, just to have himself get killed by himself.
RandomGuy96, M10 SSJ Broly is implied to be actually stronger than M8 LSSJ Broly.But yes, that makes most sense.

Vegeta says he's gonna kill Goku all the time in the movies. That's like his tagline. He says that, that I know of, in movies 6, 7, and 8. I wouldn't put much stock in that.
What about Piccolo?
Gohan didn't know that he was stronger than his dad, and Broly wouldn't be like Cell and fight Gohan while heavily suppressed while Goku stood on the sidelines giving him a pep talk.
Nothing stops Gohan from being stronger in the movie, if you assume that Broly is just so much higher than everyone else that it wouldn't matter. He was playing around the whole time.

[PerfectFreeza]

And usually, he is around Goku's level.In all 3 movies, he is close to him.
Piccolo lasted better than Gohan and Vegeta and maybe even better than Trunks.
True, Gohan didn't know that, but Goku wouldn't send away his best hope of wining and then go on clash with Broly.
That's a horrible excuse with no evidence.I could say the same with Hildegarn.He was only playing around with them, so that doesn't stop Goku from being the 3rd weakest in that movie.
And also, Vegeta was Second Grade SSJ.It's stated in the sketches.Official statement in the sketches>Fan theory.Another thing worth noting, is the OVA.
Trunks has short hair there, yet Broly is mentioned, yet Goku is alive, meaning M8 Trunks and therefore Vegeta are both Pre-2nd Rosat.

[Cardle grave]

Does it matter?He was going to kill all of them.

then you just answered your own question

Look at Bojack's face, when Piccolo arrives on the battlefield.Giving no ****s.He let himself get hit.He even had his arms folded up.Downplaying?No, that's how they were presented.

he had the same look with vegeta, a smile

It's not though.

Yes there is, Like freeza vs nail or freeza vs Vegeta or Imperfect cell vs Piccolo

So your response is...trolling, because you don't have anything to say?

I actually dont because really there is nothing to say, I just watched the movie and the camera angles and such are all different. So there is not way i can take this "Little lines" Seriously

He was relying on both.

No he wasn't, if he did then why would everyone tell gohan to come back and let goku go back in. Everyone knew gohan was stronger but he was still a child and his not his dad

He was going to, untill Gohan told him about his powers.Even before that, Gohan easily survived Cell's attacks.Who cares, who Toei planned to kill Broly.Gohan killed Broly in the second film anyway.

And what does gohan surviving attacks got to do with this, Main characters are always the guys who end up beating the villain

Of course it does.No need to state the obvious.

ok that's good

Nobody is underrating anything here.Clohes damage equals endurance, if you didn't notice.And all you could do is troll about that gif, instead of countering it, because it probably demolishes your agument, about the main hero=strongest. Who cares, when he appeared in the manga.Third Grade Trunks appeared in the manga, when Super 13 was released, yet do we see Post-Rosat Saiyans, or Pre?Pre, along with Kamiccolo.

[/quote]

I did counter the gif though, Try looking at camera angles of each of the fight and no really no it doesn't even classified as a threat to my argument. And why would toei need to put Second grade trunks though, Doesn't mean he appears he has to put him in.

[Kamiccolo9]

And usually, he is around Goku's level.In all 3 movies, he is close to him.
Piccolo lasted better than Gohan and Vegeta and maybe even better than Trunks.
True, Gohan didn't know that, but Goku wouldn't send away his best hope of wining and then go on clash with Broly.
That's a horrible excuse with no evidence.I could say the same with Hildegarn.He was only playing around with them, so that doesn't stop Goku from being the 3rd weakest in that movie.

Anime Goku is stronger than Gohan and Gotenks. This is implied numerous times in the anime, and can't really be debated.
Broly could have ended that fight in an instant just by blowing up the planet and making a barrier around himself. It's obvious that he wasn't trying his hardest in that fight. He was enjoying himself.
Goku had to worry about the situation on Earth as well. If Gohan happened to die, then Earth was doomed to be destroyed by Cell.

[Cardle grave]

Actually i may agree with Kamiccilo on this one

id say there all there cell games level except Gohan he may be just as strong as trunks

And perfect freeza, Your post on vegeta wanting to kill Goku could be because of 2nd post rosat as he only saw 50% of goku and was confident in beating him after he came out and remember movie 8 happened before cell games not after

[Mjb1985]

Very good point about " confident " Vegeta in Movie 8. I never thought about it like that. Sounds good to me.

[PerfectFreeza]

Figures, cardle.Anyway, while anime Goku is stronger than the 2, anime Goku was still=canon power, perhaps stronger, but not by much in M12, since Vegeta managed to land a hit on Janemba.Yet we have Janemba stated to be strongest villain.
So there you have it, Goku in M13 is equal to M12 Goku.
Everybody could do that.Super 13 could, Coola could(and he did, but way too late) and Wheelo could too.So you mean the mentioned 3 were holding back too, even though Super 13 was a mindless behemoth, made to kill Goku?
That's exactly why they wouldn't leave the Earth in the very first place, if it did take place during the 10 day wait and that's why it probably doesn't take place in that time period.
They are relaxing and calm, the population is calm and Vegeta is not training in M8, neither is Trunks.
How do you explain that?
EDIT:Cardle, he is Second Grade SSJ though.

[Cardle grave]

That's exactly why they wouldn't leave the Earth in the very first place, if it did take place during the 10 day wait and that's why it probably doesn't take place in that time period.They are relaxing and calm, the population is calm and Vegeta is not training in M8, neither is Trunks. How do you explain that?

Because the LSSJ was a much bigger threat then cell at that point, RSSJ Broly Destroyed the galaxy and was stated to be stronger then "you guys" and Vegeta was interested in knowing about the legend. Plus it could of been after because in movie 8 trunks had long hair. And he was the 3rd one to enter the time chamber for the 2nd time. 1st was piccolo, then vegeta and trunks so they all finish the post a while ago before cell games happened. But in that universe goku and gohan are base not SSJ. Most likely for Gohan school

In Anime he was still second grade him and trunks so its most likely he followed anime. If it was before 1st rosat then he would even be close to goku nor Trunks

[Kamiccolo9]

Figures, cardle.Anyway, while anime Goku is stronger than the 2, anime Goku was still=canon power, perhaps stronger, but not by much in M12, since Vegeta managed to land a hit on Janemba.Yet we have Janemba stated to be strongest villain.
So there you have it, Goku in M13 is equal to M12 Goku.
Everybody could do that.Super 13 could, Coola could(and he did, but way too late) and Wheelo could too.So you mean the mentioned 3 were holding back too, even though Super 13 was a mindless behemoth, made to kill Goku?
That's exactly why they wouldn't leave the Earth in the very first place, if it did take place during the 10 day wait and that's why it probably doesn't take place in that time period.
They are relaxing and calm, the population is calm and Vegeta is not training in M8, neither is Trunks.
How do you explain that?
EDIT:Cardle, he is Second Grade SSJ though.

Anime Goku is far, far stronger than his manga counterpart.
Wheelo did try, if I remember correctly. If the Androids weren't programmed to destroy the Earth, I doubt they would. Cooler, as you said, did try. Until that point, he was toying with Goku.
Why not? Goku can go there and back instantly, and the other's were able to get there quickly. No problems there.
All we know about Vegeta and Trunks' training during the 10 days is that they each spent a day in the ROSAT. We don't know what they did on the other 8 days.
Maybe in this timeline, Cell didn't announce the Cell Games to the world, just to Trunks and co. That's not too hard to work around.

And also, Vegeta was Second Grade SSJ.It's stated in the sketches.Official statement in the sketches>Fan theory.Another thing worth noting, is the OVA.
Trunks has short hair there, yet Broly is mentioned, yet Goku is alive, meaning M8 Trunks and therefore Vegeta are both Pre-2nd Rosat.

I never said that Vegeta wasn't Grade 2.
You seem dead set on assuming that just because a movie references another one, that they must be related. If I remember correctly, VegettoEX offered you numerous explanations as to why this is not necessarily the case.

[Cardle grave]

Kami Take over i got some pokemon business to take care with mighty

[PerfectFreeza]

Cardle, Broly destroyed it over time.''You guys'' means as a team.Unless you think Trunks is stronger than Goku.
In M8, Trunks had long hair, but he had it short in the OVA.Gohan was at the picnic, so he had no reason to power down.
No, they are normal SSJs.It was before 2nd Rosat.
Kamiccolo9, I know that.
Yes he did, but he wasn't toying around.In fact, Goku overpowered him with KK X 4.When they get overpowered, they try to bust, not because they are toying.Broly wasn't overpowered at any point until the very end.
By the time they regroup, Cell has already busted the place.
The movie had the follow the normal timeline, since Paragus appears with Freeza in M12.
They all seemed calm.Remeber, how Gohan was worried.Here, he is sitting on a picnic, completely calm and all.
Yes, I know he did, but then there are over 100 possibilities.

[Cardle grave]

Cardle, Broly destroyed it over time.''You guys'' means as a team.Unless you think Trunks is stronger than Goku.
In M8, Trunks had long hair, but he had it short in the OVA.Gohan was at the picnic, so he had no reason to power down.
No, they are normal SSJs.It was before 2nd Rosat.

OVA Doesn't even make sense nor matter, Well if goku was out of SSj then it would make sense for gohan as well. There 2nd post otherwise the designs form M9 would of been different. Not to mention they look like there cell games self and the OOP shows them fighting against there foes in Cell games

[Kamiccolo9]

Cardle, Broly destroyed it over time.''You guys'' means as a team.Unless you think Trunks is stronger than Goku.
In M8, Trunks had long hair, but he had it short in the OVA.Gohan was at the picnic, so he had no reason to power down.
No, they are normal SSJs.It was before 2nd Rosat.
Kamiccolo9, I know that.
Yes he did, but he wasn't toying around.In fact, Goku overpowered him with KK X 4.When they get overpowered, they try to bust, not because they are toying.Broly wasn't overpowered at any point until the very end.
By the time they regroup, Cell has already busted the place.
The movie had the follow the normal timeline, since Paragus appears with Freeza in M12.
They all seemed calm.Remeber, how Gohan was worried.Here, he is sitting on a picnic, completely calm and all.
Yes, I know he did, but then there are over 100 possibilities.

I don't think we're gonna get anywhere with this. It's probably best to just agree to disagree at this point. Neither of us is wrong; there are lots of ways to interpret this.

[PerfectFreeza]

Why?I doubt Goku would revert, just because of Chi-Chi.Gohan was on the picnic, so no reason for him to revert.For all we know, when he went to the picnic, Goku was still SSJ.
Post-Rosat Vegetas and Trunkses? look the same.The ''Oop'' shows the next major events.
EDIT:Indeed Kamicollo9.U