FUNimation DBZ TV Blu-ray Official On-Going Thread

[rereboy]

No it's not...? Kai and Z are different entities, Carnifex wants something that doesn't exist in any form.

Kai is just a repackaged Z. As much as Toei wants to treat as separate it really isn't. It's like saying the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2 is a separate entity. If Carnifex wants all the blood that was prevalent in Z, then just watch Dragon Ball Z.

Exactly. Kai is basically just a director's cut of DBZ. Its DBZ with different audio choices and scenes cut or retouched.

[Kendamu]

No it's not...? Kai and Z are different entities, Carnifex wants something that doesn't exist in any form.

Kai is just a repackaged Z. As much as Toei wants to treat as separate it really isn't. It's like saying the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2 is a separate entity. If Carnifex wants all the blood that was prevalent in Z, then just watch Dragon Ball Z.

The dub and music differences are enough that if I took away someone's DBZ collection, replaced it with Kai, and said, "It's the same effin' thing!" I'd probably make whoever I did that to pretty angry.

As much as you want to over-simplify it, Kai is different.

[rereboy]

No it's not...? Kai and Z are different entities, Carnifex wants something that doesn't exist in any form.

Kai is just a repackaged Z. As much as Toei wants to treat as separate it really isn't. It's like saying the Richard Donner cut of Superman 2 is a separate entity. If Carnifex wants all the blood that was prevalent in Z, then just watch Dragon Ball Z.

The dub and music differences are enough that if I took away someone's DBZ collection, replaced it with Kai, and said, "It's the same effin' thing!" I'd probably make whoever I did that to pretty angry.

As much as you want to over-simplify it, Kai is different.

They would be mad the same way I would be mad if someone replaced one of my DVD movies with the Director's Cut version of that movie, if I actually prefered the original version.

So, no. Its basically the same thing. The only difference is that Kai tries to pass itself off as something completely different from DBZ, while other stuff just state that its a different version of the same thing with some differences. Which is what Kai should have done.

[Kendamu]

They would be mad the same way I would be mad if someone replaced one of my DVD movies with the Director's Cut version of that movie, if I actually prefered the original version.

So, no. Its basically the same thing. The only difference is that Kai tries to pass itself off as something completely different from DBZ, while other stuff just state that its a different version of the same thing with some differences. Which is what Kai should have done.

There's a difference between a "Director's Cut" (NOW WITH 15 MINUTES OF ADDITIONAL USELESS FOOTAGE FOR SUPERFANS!!!) and an "LOL we cut half the footage, re-shot some parts, re-acted every single line we kept, and re-scored it twice!"

Saying Kai and Z are the same is like saying, "The manga and the anime are the same story, so they're obviously the same experience despite being different mediums entirely."

[AgitoZ]

There's a difference between a "Director's Cut" (NOW WITH 15 MINUTES OF ADDITIONAL USELESS FOOTAGE FOR SUPERFANS!!!) and an "LOL we cut half the footage, re-shot some parts, re-acted every single line we kept, and re-scored it twice!"

Yep, no Director's cut has ever shot new footage, used alternate angles or takes, etc.


Nope, none at all...

[Tanooki Kuribo]

There's a difference between a "Director's Cut" (NOW WITH 15 MINUTES OF ADDITIONAL USELESS FOOTAGE FOR SUPERFANS!!!) and an "LOL we cut half the footage, re-shot some parts, re-acted every single line we kept, and re-scored it twice!"

Yep, no Director's cut has ever shot new footage, used alternate angles or takes, etc.

(Image of SuperMan II: The Richard Donner Cut here)

Sure, but Richard Donner didn't throw out all the old dialogue and replace it with a new one. I don't think any director has done that with a movie.

[Kendamu]

There's a difference between a "Director's Cut" (NOW WITH 15 MINUTES OF ADDITIONAL USELESS FOOTAGE FOR SUPERFANS!!!) and an "LOL we cut half the footage, re-shot some parts, re-acted every single line we kept, and re-scored it twice!"

Yep, no Director's cut has ever shot new footage, used alternate angles or takes, etc.

*image snip*
Nope, none at all...

Wow. One example compared to every other "Director's Cut" ever. Seriously, why the hang up with "KAI'S THE SAME THING!!!"

It's not. If it was, we wouldn't have a different forum section for it. There wouldn't be different releases for it. People wouldn't have to consider "Z or Kai?" when deciding which sets to buy. That, and Kai is missing the entire Boo arc if that's any indication of a difference.

But, really, why?

[Kid Buu]

There's a difference between a "Director's Cut" (NOW WITH 15 MINUTES OF ADDITIONAL USELESS FOOTAGE FOR SUPERFANS!!!) and an "LOL we cut half the footage, re-shot some parts, re-acted every single line we kept, and re-scored it twice!"

Yep, no Director's cut has ever shot new footage, used alternate angles or takes, etc.

*image snip*
Nope, none at all...

Wow. One example compared to every other "Director's Cut" ever. Seriously, why the hang up with "KAI'S THE SAME THING!!!"

It's not. If it was, we wouldn't have a different forum section for it. There wouldn't be different releases for it. People wouldn't have to consider "Z or Kai?" when deciding which sets to buy. That, and Kai is missing the entire Boo arc if that's any indication of a difference.

But, really, why?

Lots of directors cut are different from the theatrical cut, look at pretty much any Ridley Scott directors cut.

[Kendamu]

They're usually not that different. Maybe some of the more famous ones are, but most movies I see that have "x-much extra footage and a previously covered up boob" aren't really all that different from the theatrical release.

[Kingdom Heartless]

I'm not sure what the point of this argument is, but Dragon Ball Kai definitely should be seen as a separate show.

I'm not even sure why people are using Richard Donner's Superman II in their argument against that fact. That's also generally considered as a separate movie. That also gets the "Product A" vs. "Product B" discussions. That also has it's own IMDb page, like Dragon Ball Kai. Most other Director's Cuts don't have that, such as Ridley Scott's movies or even the Daredevil Director's Cut.

[AgitoZ]

I'm not even sure why people are using Richard Donner's Superman II in their argument against that fact. That's also generally considered as a separate movie. That also gets the "Product A" vs. "Product B" discussions.

That's why I brought it up, it's a pretty good comparison to Kai. It is Superman 2, but not really. Kai really is just Z, but not exactly. It likes to be treated as it's own entity, but you can't bring up Kai without eventually bringing up the original Z as well.

[rereboy]

There's a difference between a "Director's Cut" (NOW WITH 15 MINUTES OF ADDITIONAL USELESS FOOTAGE FOR SUPERFANS!!!) and an "LOL we cut half the footage, re-shot some parts, re-acted every single line we kept, and re-scored it twice!"

Saying Kai and Z are the same is like saying, "The manga and the anime are the same story, so they're obviously the same experience despite being different mediums entirely."

Kai doesn't just retell the same story in animation. It literally picks ups the animation of Dragon Ball Z and just edits it. Its edits the audio and some scenes of Dragon Ball Z, getting rid of some, making others shorter and it edits some special effect in some scenes.

Kai's approach is literally the same approach as a Director's cut. It picks up the existing movie/show and just edits it. It might remove some stuff, it might add some stuff or replace some stuff. The differences might be huge or insignificant, but at the end of the day its just an edit of the preexisting movie to create a new version of it.

That is exactly what Kai is.

A remake is totally different. The only thing it has to do with the preexisting show is the fact that both of them are telling a version of the same story in the same format.

Kai tries to pass itself off as something separate from DBZ, like a remake, when in fact its just a different version of DBZ, like a director's cut. That was my point.

[Kendamu]

I was somehow under the impression that you were saying that they were the same thing... as if maybe it wouldn't matter if you got one version or the other because you're getting the same thing in the end.

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

Okay, quick ignorant technical question; just how do you get HD masters of a fundamentally (Made for SD TVs no matter what you do to it) 640x480 show? Or are the masters whatever you want them to be and just originally set to 480?

[Metalwario64]

Okay, quick ignorant technical question; just how do you get HD masters of a fundamentally (Made for SD TVs no matter what you do to it) 640x480 show? Or are the masters whatever you want them to be and just originally set to 480?

Film isn't digital, it doesn't have any set resolution. You can scan it in at any size you want to (at least I don't know of any restrictions).

[DanielGClapp]

Film isn't digital, it doesn't have any set resolution. You can scan it in at any size you want to (at least I don't know of any restrictions).

Great! Can't wait to see Dragonball in 4k resolution!

[MarcFBR]

Film isn't digital, it doesn't have any set resolution. You can scan it in at any size you want to (at least I don't know of any restrictions).

Different types of cellulose will only hold 'so much' visual data.

I haven't looked for awhile, but as I recall, the most common number I remember seeing is that 8mm really doesn't hold anything past 720x480 when converted to digital.

[Mountain]

Film isn't digital, it doesn't have any set resolution. You can scan it in at any size you want to (at least I don't know of any restrictions).

Great! Can't wait to see Dragonball in 4k resolution!

Only the footage that was shot on 35mm will be fully benefited by a 4k scan, because that's approximately how much digital resolution 35mm film has. The majority of DragonBall was shot on 16mm, and the original cels weren't that detailed to begin with; there's only so good this show can look.

[DanielGClapp]

there's only so good this show can look.

So do you think blu-ray will be the highest res. that Dragonball (and I was reffering to DBZGT-the whole story) will ever see?

[Metalwario64]

Film isn't digital, it doesn't have any set resolution. You can scan it in at any size you want to (at least I don't know of any restrictions).

Different types of cellulose will only hold 'so much' visual data.

I haven't looked for awhile, but as I recall, the most common number I remember seeing is that 8mm really doesn't hold anything past 720x480 when converted to digital.

I figured something like that might be the case, which is why I'm glad I wasn't acting as though I was 100% certain of my assertion.

Though, at least I think I was correct about it not being a case of SD vs HD, but how large you scan it in (at least to its maximum point of detail as you've pointed out).