Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Darkron2151
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Darkron2151 » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:57 pm

Lord Beerus wrote: Because if Goku hypothetically thinks that Vegetto in any capacity wouldn't be enough to defeat Beerus, who was using less than 10% of his power for all intents and purposes at that time, and using the 1-15 scale for God tier characters, SSJ3 Vegetto being a 4.8 on your scale doesn't work at all. If SSJ2 Raging Vegeta can make Beerus use 10% of his power to tank everything he was throwing at him, what does that say about how much power Beerus was using when kicked SSJ3 Goku's ass? Especially when Beerus specifically makes the comment about how much more fun he had fighting SSJ2 Vegeta than he did fighting SSJ3 Goku. Goku came a solid conclusion, judging from his first encounter with Beerus, that fusing with Vegeta wouldn't enough to defeat Beerus. That is the be all and end all. Then after Beerus fights Vegeta, he make the statement that he had use 10% of his power to handle Raging SSJ2 Vegeta and then makes the comment that he had much more fun fighting Vegeta than he did Goku on King Kai's planet. This all heavy implies that Beerus used a quite a lot less power when he fought Goku originally. Perhaps around 3-6%. The same amount of power than Goku believed would able to defeat hypothetical Vegetto in any form.

So in reality, this is how things stand:

Beerus (10%) >> Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta > Beerus (<10%) >>>>> SSJ3 Vegetto >>>>> SSJ3 Goku

And going by the 1-15 for God tier characters in BOG/ROF/Super, SSJ3 Vegetto doesn't rank on the scale.
And again, you're assuming Goku thinks this is Beerus' full power. Goku probably just noticed that Beerus wasn't even trying and thought,"Wow. If this is him not even trying, I can't imagine him going Full Power and going all out." Heck, Goku even complained to Beerus during their fight that Beerus wasn't "showing his true strength", to which Beerus replied, "I'll only show to you what's necessary". Why would Goku then assume that Beerus used full power and effort into a single flick and shoulder touch? And since Goku can't even sense Beerus, how could he even make that assumption if he doesn't know if Beerus is 1,000,000x stronger than him or only 10x stronger just based on feats?

Heck, from what I listed, Rageta is stronger than regular SSJ Vegetto anyways, so even if Goku mistook Suppressed Beerus for full power, it would fit. There is, however, no implication that Goku was even factoring in hypothetical forms when he mentioned Fusion. He probably just factored in what he knew, which was SSJ Vegetto from ~5 years ago (though I still have beerus beating SSJ3 Vegetto).

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:37 am

ThePiccolo wrote:Just a quick question for you guys so I can make an accurate placement of these characters. If Beerus is 1000 on this scale, what would you estimate these characters are? (Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo are their tournament level)

Goku - 6
SSJ - 300

Vegeta - 5.99
SSJ - 299.5

Piccolo - 1 , makankosappo - 50

Champa -992

Vados - No idea, over 1600

First Form Frost - 0.9
Assault Form- 6
Final Form - 9

Botamo - Too low to read on this scale

And we do not have any accurate means to gauge these 3 characters' strengths, but what would you assume them to be?

Magetta - 27

Cabba - 2

Hit - 1999
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Mar 11, 2016 3:12 am

Darkron2151 wrote:
Lord Beerus wrote: Because if Goku hypothetically thinks that Vegetto in any capacity wouldn't be enough to defeat Beerus, who was using less than 10% of his power for all intents and purposes at that time, and using the 1-15 scale for God tier characters, SSJ3 Vegetto being a 4.8 on your scale doesn't work at all. If SSJ2 Raging Vegeta can make Beerus use 10% of his power to tank everything he was throwing at him, what does that say about how much power Beerus was using when kicked SSJ3 Goku's ass? Especially when Beerus specifically makes the comment about how much more fun he had fighting SSJ2 Vegeta than he did fighting SSJ3 Goku. Goku came a solid conclusion, judging from his first encounter with Beerus, that fusing with Vegeta wouldn't enough to defeat Beerus. That is the be all and end all. Then after Beerus fights Vegeta, he make the statement that he had use 10% of his power to handle Raging SSJ2 Vegeta and then makes the comment that he had much more fun fighting Vegeta than he did Goku on King Kai's planet. This all heavy implies that Beerus used a quite a lot less power when he fought Goku originally. Perhaps around 3-6%. The same amount of power than Goku believed would able to defeat hypothetical Vegetto in any form.

So in reality, this is how things stand:

Beerus (10%) >> Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta > Beerus (<10%) >>>>> SSJ3 Vegetto >>>>> SSJ3 Goku

And going by the 1-15 for God tier characters in BOG/ROF/Super, SSJ3 Vegetto doesn't rank on the scale.
And again, you're assuming Goku thinks this is Beerus' full power. Goku probably just noticed that Beerus wasn't even trying and thought,"Wow. If this is him not even trying, I can't imagine him going Full Power and going all out." Heck, Goku even complained to Beerus during their fight that Beerus wasn't "showing his true strength", to which Beerus replied, "I'll only show to you what's necessary". Why would Goku then assume that Beerus used full power and effort into a single flick and shoulder touch? And since Goku can't even sense Beerus, how could he even make that assumption if he doesn't know if Beerus is 1,000,000x stronger than him or only 10x stronger just based on feats?

Heck, from what I listed, Rageta is stronger than regular SSJ Vegetto anyways, so even if Goku mistook Suppressed Beerus for full power, it would fit. There is, however, no implication that Goku was even factoring in hypothetical forms when he mentioned Fusion. He probably just factored in what he knew, which was SSJ Vegetto from ~5 years ago (though I still have beerus beating SSJ3 Vegetto).
To buttress that point, Ginyu accurately predicted Goku's full power level while both were fighting at a suppressed level, and Krillin roughly determined Cell's full power after taking a suppressed kick from him. Somehow fighters can just accurately guess the full strength of their opponents with limited information. There's no reason to assume the intuition of Goku, a fighting genius, is inferior to that of Krillin's in that regard. So there's no real problem with having SS3 Vegetto somewhat close to Beerus while still being unable to beat him. Plus, no matter what, we are assigning Goku the arbitrary ability to accurately tell how much power his opponent is hiding without ki sensing or any real physical showings- you don't need to be that much stronger than an opponent to do what Beerus did to Goku. He couldn't have concluded Beerus > Vegetto just from getting a handle on Beerus's suppressed power.
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RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:16 am

Well I tried a non base god Goku and Vegeta list.

Champa Arc

Beerus: 10,000,000,000,000
Champa: 9,800,000,000,000
Monaka: 9,000,000,000,000

Son Goku: 1,700,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 85,000,000,000
-- Base with god power: 850,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,500,000,000,000

Vegeta: 1,700,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 85,000,000,000
-- Base with god power: 850,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 8,500,000,000,000

Hit: ?
Cabba: ?

Frost [First form]: 600,000,000
-- Assault form: 1,800,000,000
-- Final form: 54,000,000,000
-- Weakened after fighting Son Goku: 22,000,000,000

Majin Boo: 20,000,000,000
Piccolo: 10,000,000,000
Son Gohan: 9,500,000,000
Magetta: ?
Botamo: 300,000,000

Lets see if future episodes try to explain things.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:50 am

goku and especially vegeta only has god ki in SSB form. Everyone was able to sense their ki vs freeza, and commented on how big it was.

Gohan should be stronger than mystic gohan, otherwise he'd not "I'm so excited to show you the results of my training"

Final form frost must be MUCH weaker than SS goku
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Khin » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:57 am

apex_pretador wrote:goku ad especially vegeta only has god ki in SSB form
1st Form Freeza was causally torturing SSj Gohan who is about the same league as his Ultimate self and the same Freeza need his Final Form to be equal to Base Goku.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:52 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:goku ad especially vegeta only has god ki in SSB form
1st Form Freeza was causally torturing SSj Gohan who is about the same league as his Ultimate self and the same Freeza need his Final Form to be equal to Base Goku.
krillin was sensing goku
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Khin » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:10 am

apex_pretador wrote:
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:goku ad especially vegeta only has god ki in SSB form
1st Form Freeza was causally torturing SSj Gohan who is about the same league as his Ultimate self and the same Freeza need his Final Form to be equal to Base Goku.
krillin was sensing goku
Goten can sense the SSj Goku that went toe to toe with Beerus either.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:11 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote: 1st Form Freeza was causally torturing SSj Gohan who is about the same league as his Ultimate self and the same Freeza need his Final Form to be equal to Base Goku.
krillin was sensing goku
Goten can sense the SSj Goku that went toe to toe with Beerus either.
exactly, he doesn't have "GOD KI" in SS form either
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:51 pm

Gap between Imperfect Cell and weighted Piccolo?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Khin » Sat Mar 12, 2016 3:58 pm

Zombie wrote:Gap between Imperfect Cell and weighted Piccolo?
Imperfect Cell : 280,000,000

Piccolo : 310,000,000
--- Full Power : 350,000,000

For reference
Android 18 : 300,000,000
Android 17 : 350,000,000

I personally don't think that the weights are as effective as before at that point as Android 16 states that Piccolo's power at that time rivals even Android 17 and 18.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:36 pm

Zombie wrote:Gap between Imperfect Cell and weighted Piccolo?
I hardly ever give Piccolo a weighted number anymore, but I guess if I had too...

-Piccolo (weighted) - 315
--full power - 360

-Cell - 280

-Android 17 - 360
-Android 18 - 330
Last edited by DanielSSJ on Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Khin » Sat Mar 12, 2016 4:40 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:
Zombie wrote:Gap between Imperfect Cell and weighted Piccolo?
I hardly ever give Piccolo a weighted number anymore, but I guess if I had too...

-Piccolo (weighted) - 315
--full power - 360

-Cell - 280

-Android 17 - 360
-Android 16 - 330
Android 16 is weaker that 17 ?

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:30 am

Zombie wrote:Gap between Imperfect Cell and weighted Piccolo?
5-10%. The gap wasn't that big. Piccolo was the superior fighter.

Cell : 160-170
Piccolo : 180-185 , FP : 200
Cell : 250
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
DanielSSJ wrote:
Zombie wrote:Gap between Imperfect Cell and weighted Piccolo?
I hardly ever give Piccolo a weighted number anymore, but I guess if I had too...

-Piccolo (weighted) - 315
--full power - 360

-Cell - 280

-Android 17 - 360
-Android 16 - 330
Android 16 is weaker that 17 ?
probably he meant android 18?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun Mar 13, 2016 8:40 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:Android 16 is weaker that 17 ?
Typo. That was supposed to be 18. Fixing it now.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Mar 13, 2016 10:05 am

Zombie wrote:Well I tried a non base god Goku and Vegeta list.

Base Saiyans stronger than Namek 100% FP Freeza? I don't think so
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Mar 13, 2016 1:25 pm

Noah wrote:
Zombie wrote:Well I tried a non base god Goku and Vegeta list.

Base Saiyans stronger than Namek 100% FP Freeza? I don't think so
Those numbers are for the Champa arc, after the ritual.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Noah » Sun Mar 13, 2016 5:21 pm

Zombie wrote:Those numbers are for the Champa arc, after the ritual.
Oh, I see... So you think the ritual improve their non-god bases? :think:
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by DanielSSJ » Sun Mar 13, 2016 6:50 pm

Noah wrote:
Zombie wrote:Those numbers are for the Champa arc, after the ritual.
Oh, I see... So you think the ritual improve their non-god bases? :think:
I'd say the improvements came from Whis' training.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by ZombieVito » Sun Mar 13, 2016 9:40 pm

A combination of both I assume. God I really want to know what the hell is going on with this.

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